This is my exact feelings on the situation. Just let people train/boost until they die. If they can beat the super hard boss with one hit, then good for them.

But I DEF think a hard cap needs to be set for opponents. You can't keep moving them, because those of us (YES ME) who are always THISCLOSE are going to be forever THISCLOSE. (In terms of, say, seasonal opponents)

It's the same thing, just with the shoe on the other foot. That is my point, see how ridiculous that is when you're on the other side of the coin?

No one should be rewarded for a particular thing when it hinders the rest of the general playing population. Not everyone has $750 cash to give Keith to get a freshly generated godly, nor does everyone have the time/ability to sit here for 24 hours battling for something that may or may not be worth it. In regards to that, sometimes it's not even worth it- Jaxon's staff is interesting, sure, but it's not worth what some people put in. Same for Tempest, and same for that Lumiplot where people battled 5ever and got that sparkle key thing. Subeta has a serious problem of letting users go nuts, and then the reward isn't worth it (because staff can't really make something super epic and only give it to 25 people once... outside of the trainwreck with the Satyr/Bulldude but that's a horse of another color that I'm not touching) and there's a thousand or two users going HAHA I'M GLAD I SLEPT LOL and typically 25 users going...... well fml. (disclaimer: I have in fact not offered Keith any amount of money for any godly, nor has he taken an offer I've never given him.. if I were to offer him a copious amount of money for anything it would definitely be pet slots.. or IDs...)

By breaking up a boss fight into two equal parts and letting two groups of people go at it for a shorter period of time they're doing damage control before there's even damage. They don't have to worry about disappointing the meta battlers with something that wasn't even going to be that amazing, they don't have to worry about half the userbase not even bothering because they don't have that kinda time, they don't have to worry about totally screwing over timezones, and people can get some sleep/go to work.

There's nothing stopping you, presently, from training all of these builds-- is there? I have a second tier 12 pet and eight tier 11s, and a capped pet, and I will continue to train them all until they all cap (I'll probably have 40 at some point, once Edmond and Chino reach tier 10 I'll start on the next two) because I enjoy training a great deal. In the end having one pet to rule them all with a pet rank built on everything but level that can beat everything + many in the same ballpark with different builds is more appealing than focusing on one at a time. I enjoy, when challengers come out to play, seeing how far Max (tier 12) can get opposed to Desmond (tier 11 but in the 2.7ks), and then how far the rest can get. I don't find it appealing to shift my focus off the main pet to redo the focus on the second. That disinterest comes from all of the other moving parts of battling (ie: intel/moving scrolls) which is a drastic amount of money and effort I'm not interested in.

I fully understand why having no cap + boss battles = bad. A 12 hour limit would help to a degree because the people who fight with more than one pet would have to pick one and gun for the top, and that they could only fight in one. However there's still options, mainly 1) the cap rising and not being abolished and 2) even if it was abolished they could still literal cap pets during boss fights (any pets over x stats will be cut off at 20k and everything will be divided evenly-- which really makes it more fair for the smaller pets). But allowing users to fight for so long is literally letting them go uncapped in regards to time, which is equally unfair to the rest of the users.

I know who you mean (I think we all know who you mean lol) and if I had to take bets I'd put that on being weapons related and not stat related... mayybe 80% weapons/20% stats, which is why weapons need to be capped as well... perhaps those need to be excluded from boss fights as well. I know this, because I made the mistake of using a less ideal god and literally fucked myself out of about 2 rounds/4k damage per battle so trust me when I say its' honestly because of weapons they deal a great deal more in damage opposed to the stats.

Oy vey...what a nightmare I've gone and unleashed.

I'm going to infer Aaron is ? If not, forgive me. I only got into battling not long after the tier system was introduced. I'm fairly naive as to everything that happened before then, but I appreciate your input.

We simply have to agree to disagree on some aspects regarding the battle system. In any case, how exactly did Tiers destroy the battle system? I'd like to understand your perspective before jumping to conclusions or being an ass.

WHY does this make sense someone working hard as hell to build only to have what they build taken away JEZZ WTF

o.k. Maybe it makes sense, yes, but THAT would be even more unfair. After all, we had invested in tons of boosters and what have you all those years, which then get dumped, because in the end we have enough XP left to outweigh those boosters? Apart from that it was said, we would get a cap raise eventually and stat reallocation. So of course we wanted to do work in advance.

Come to think of it, maybe we could bottle our XP and sell them as boosters... Wouldn't know, what it would be good for all that money, but, hm, yes, just a whimsy.

Jokes aside - RE speed. We sort of are forced to have 4k speed minimum, because hat's the requirement for weapons to give their full potential.

I will agree with most but especially except that I found each and every one of those bosses perfectly rewarding, and I put a TON of time into all 3 of the bosses last year. I think that dividing the boss fight into parts is of course a better idea, I even think they ought to be less than 12 hours, say 6-8. But I still think people with multiple pets should be able to fight a different part of the fight. In theory every top pet has an equal chance at a top prize, and people with multiple top pets might get multiple top pries, if they literally are willing to battle non-stop in both of two instances, or they might just be able to only get one top prize and a second secondary prize.

It only makes sense if the cap is a thing. If the cap is abolished, it wouldn't I agree.

I feel like we've had this discussion 15 times, but it's 3k

3k adds 2% compared to 2k.

If they could battle both times with different pets but could only qualify for the top prize once (unless of course they landed the final blow + got a top rank, that's fair enough) then that'd be fine too. My biggest issue with the 24 hour fights is they're not healthy, and most people can't just sit here and do that for that long, just like most people can't drop ridiculous amounts of cash to boost like crazy/buy gods.

I also wouldn't mind seeing gods removed from boss battles, too, regardless of the cap debate, that'd make it more interesting to see what weapons people end up using to cause the most damage vs. "well crap those people aren't sleeping and those two have the top percentage gods... done, going to bed".

No Aaron was the admin before colddragon. I think they were co admins for a while if I remember correctly, then colddragon and ryan, then purge and cranberry.

It's not that tiers made it unplayable, especially for new players, its that it screwed over tons of people (myself included), leading many of us to quit, which also killed the economy.

Before tiers there were a lot of people with small pets and god weapons that collected them largely for the hell of it. It rarely meant being able to beat an opponent that you couldn't otherwise beat, largely because FoRRC/FoRRP were so completely overpowered for every pet up until around 900 stats overall. But even then, every challenger had at least 3 icon types post blasting/stealing, so there was a pretty high HP requirement on weapons. The few times that there were strategies that were financially abusable, we reported them to the battle admins, and they were promptly fixed. God weapons made small pets marginally better/faster in BQs, but nothing abusable like 100/100/100/100 pets taking on Saggi.

By adding tiers, the BC gained absolutely nothing, but the way some of us had fun was stamped out. Now if I want to battle with my tier 5, I need to battle with a 30mil set instead of my full 4.5bil+ arsenal. Now most of the high end pets that can afford god weapons have them, and no uber mods in sight to try and prevent lending. So now there is noone to buy god weapons, noone to sell god weapons, market dies.

Then they added the stat cap, now the biggest users of boosters are gone, and the price of them drops dramatically. Now they are also even less incentivized to drop any loot that they win, since they don't need to fund an expensive booster habit.

Without the economy, like keith said, the BC is really very simple without much interaction or reason to play.

And thats how Cap and Tier killed the BC. Obviously not for everyone, but for many. And its not a system that I see many people excited to try and get into, because everything is time limited now.

It not just weapons. Its the combination of high strength and speed with the weapons and right (for a boss battle) modding. With large amount of crit mods and Val out speeding bosses, she gets a crit most moves and double crit more often than you would think. When the boss also allows freezing, she gets a bloody lot of damage per fight in before dying. nnNot weighing in on rest because I don't think what I think matters much and also on my phone.

way late but I really want to address this.

1. people literally can't take out the big guys without putting a lot of time in to training, so that's a moot point.
2. if people are at the stage where they can steamroll everything, again, they've put tons of effort it to get there. Just because they'd rather train than strategize doesn't make their wins any less valid, and I'm getting tired of the lazy battler trope. It's old. I don't want to take 50 losses when I know that I could wait a month and get the wins easily - fuck me, right?

also, a more general response to the catch-up argument: someone starting today is automatically going to be at a disadvantage compared to someone who started a year/five years/etc ago. I think it's monumentally unfair (and I'd even venture to call it stupid) to hold people back just so newbies can feel like they're getting somewhere, while older plays just sit there spinning their wheels. I was that newbie once, and seeing people with pets miles ahead of mine didn't make me want to hit pause on their progress just so I could get mine up to scratch. It just made me realize that I'd have to be as dedicated as they were if I wanted to get somewhere.

the cap was put into place as an hold back on the top battlers while the rest [complainers] caught up now it has been forever feels like how many of the [complainers] have capped because they have had PLENTY of time to do so IF they wanted to. the rest are going to idle as long as the cap is in place causing subeta money that they need to run the site.

drop cap let us spend as we see fit on training [25csc per day per cap pet = major income loss] really how many csc did subeta loss due to cap because of [complainers] and [lagers]

@ THESOVEREIGN i seriously fail to see how not having a stat cap makes anyone more likely to sell their godly weapons. On the other hand, it seems to me that encouraging people to have multiple capped pets and winning multiple loot, directly benefits both them and the people who want to get in to battling and buy that loot. Also there are still plenty of people to buy god weapons, and any that come up for sale sell near instantly. Obviously both are a rare occurrence but they are equally as rare. By adding tiers they made it so they could make a challenger designed for pets with 8k stats, designed for a pet with 8k stats. Not designed for a pet with 2k stats and a ridiculously overpowered arsenal of weapons compared to the investment in their pet. I was totally against the cap to begin with, but the way it was implemented worked out very well and makes a heck of a lot of sense to me. I think the booster argument is fairly valid, but I think it might change if people where told for sure that after this cap increase, that will be it. People should be more likely to boost a second/third/fourth etc pet after they hit the new cap, if they know for sure they're not going to regret saving the money/boosters for when the cap is removed. There's been more people participating in event battles than ever lately. Someone is more likely to get in to battling if you only have weapons they can't catch up to rather than weapons and a pet they can't catch up to.

7 dollars a day ? Wow, Subetateam is probably bursting to tears right now just thinking about that major income loss. But who in their right mind would autotrain a capped pet when your training sessions are 20 hours long anyway ?

Did you by any chance take lessons on how not to convince people to do things with ?

7 dollars a day ? Wow, Subetateam is probably bursting to tears right now just thinking about that major income loss. But who in their right mind would autotrain a capped pet when your training sessions are 20 hours long anyway ?

Did you by any chance take lessons on how not to convince people to do things with ?

you forgot to multiply by days cap has been in place ;)

PS i did not buy 1 booster in cash shop because of cap to how many others did the same think before posting stupid stuff that got us the cap in the 1st place [i beat him with a spork] crap

I didn't forget anything, 7 dollars a day is now, it was probably $1.5 a day when the cap was released, but let's round up to $5 a day for convenience

Well, my friend, 5 dollars a day is 5 dollars a day, it doesn't have to be multiplied by anything to be able to grasp what loss we're talking about.

I'm gonna say it again though : no one autotrains a pet that has 2K+ level because it doesn't give you any extra course. So it's really 0 dollars a day. How many days should I multiply this 0 by ?

Hell, I'm T10 and I don't even find autotraining worth it, let alone capped people :D

I think maybe the problem with boss battle prizes is how it is rank based. Perhaps finding other means of determining who gets the top prizes should be considered instead.

I find that autotraining becomes a waste at level 550+, but maybe that's just me.

Yeah, I just hit level 700 this week (THANKS ORACLE) and I agree with you. I still did it from 550-650, but now, I stick to normal training, when I think about it

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, well maybe, but it has to be something that is directly competitive and not just luck based, except for the last hit prize of course.