Could we add a warning at the training center and with the boosters?

Warning: Opponents may seem smaller and less difficult with use.

if a challenge is all the top 1% wants try to beat Baenwurath 500 or 1000 times i bet they get a challenge then.

the big problem is the so called battlers do not want to go past 10 and complain there to easy......................

Well I really enjoy strategizing and eking out a win after taking hundreds of losses, and I think that training is mindless and boring, but I don't think that I should be able to take out the strongest opponents without having to train. I don't think people should be able to steamroll all the opponents without having to strategize either.

People who posted here have given some compelling reasons to remove the stat cap, but people have also given compelling reasons not to. That's the whole idea behind a suggestion thread.

i can not see your point that it hurts others please mail me ;)

as for how i see keeping a cap is to keep intel boosters high since it is the only usable stat that we can have with a cap.

So the jist I get from this is because x amount of users hate training-- that's why the cap should stay?

I don't think a phantom cap is that great of an idea because frankly, the bar is ALWAYS going to be pushed, always. If there is no cap there's going to be some cool trick the BAs thought of that sounds fun and even more fun if they target the strongest pets. If there's no cap, then those 5 people who go above and beyond will be the top and so on so on.

However leaving the cap at where it is forever isn't any more appealing, because this is it. You can spend 4 years making a new pet to get to that point but my god 4 years is a ridiculously long time-- does no one grasp how long that is? Does no one get that that's a long amount of time to FIND OUT if this new build is more effective? Just to rinse and repeat, again.

In four years, hell by the end of this year.. how many more capped pets will there be? Where will we be in 5 years, probably-- 1,000 capped pets. 1,000 pets with capped stats, all on the exact same playing field-- how fun is that going to be? Knowing that yup, if there's a 24 hour boss battle-- you better not miss one minute because guess what? You are equal to 1,000 other users, there's absolutely no way you can get the upper hand with stats and grab a few hours of sleep/maybe go to work tomorrow. Hell no, no advantage better go buy some Monster and 5 hour energy because you ain't moving. That is literally the most unmotivational thing ever. Even more so when you're like the few users who were capped from day one.

You know how unmotivational it is to be stuck at square one for YEARS, watching all of your hard work and dedication become more and more meaningless? Watching your pet that you pumped so much effort into when it was harder, be passed by newer pets boosting LEVEL? It doesn't make me want to battle, at all. It makes me want to sell all my weapons/scrolls and do something else with my time because why pump effort into you're just going to hit stasis? Why do it AGAIN? Especially when most things are achievement based, so what's the purpose of a second pet? All that time, effort, boosting, intel... meh.

Yeah I have a ton of tier 11 pets, but I'm training them because i enjoy training them. It makes me happy (and it's an sP sink), having a capped pet that I put so much effort into being passed by level boosters and passed more and more and being told "well do it again" well, no. How about not.

I get the purpose of the cap, there was a huge gap from dedicated battlers and insanity dedicated battlers. I get that challengers 100% need to be capped and need to NOT change to give users a bigger challenge when those battlers beat that challenger last year-- the challenger bar shouldn't be moved, and challengers should be designed by tier. There should be a new tier, Tier 13 that caps at the new cap and has higher experience costs (I liked that idea! Kuddos to whomever mentioned that, I think that's FANTASTIC! Even if capped pets earn exp then whenever tier 14 comes out the costs will be even higher so there you go!) and the absolute top challenger should be, at best, designed for that cap in mind.

PS: The stat cap is basically like ... capping new items on site. We want to let everyone else catch up and really there's a ton already work with what you got gais no more items until at least 25% of the userbase has 100% of the items onsite :'D No it's bad, cap the challengers and cap the weapons (to encourage people to think outside of the box) make new interesting scrolls to use outside of abyss or freezers and let pets have a new cap.

I also agree that cap where it is or no cap or raised cap, none of that makes the end game more appealing other than "well thank god I'm done with that". Which is a horrible mode of thinking, like why should the end game be THANK GOD I'M DONE WITH THIS NONSENSE UGH. There shouldn't be an end game because people should enjoy battling?

I enjoy beating things, I enjoy earning new things... I enjoy boss battles when they're not 24 hours long because ain't nobody in their right mind got time fer that. I think everyone would go past 10 wins if we still got exp for it, there just isn't enough swag in the battle shop to warrant going for more wins for "maybe" tokens and well to be frank there's no point in going past 5 wins if you have a capped pet :P I'd like to see interesting loots for the 10th win, and maybe something new and fresh to replace the "end game".

Like if there's a new cap-- capped pets earn intel exp. Or hell, AP experience? Or pets past x stats (in the unlikely chance we have a phantom cap) earn a buffed exp ratio (or no normal experience, making it harder to train a pet over, say, 30k stats) and intel/ap experience. Knowing you can battle past 10 wins + earn intel/ap is a pretty damn motivational reason to keep going.

Also level needs to be removed from ranks, or ranks need to be removed entirely. That was an interesting aspect before the cap but now it's just salt in the wound.

We keep coming back to users being bored from 2 years ago, but I feel like relying a lot on two year old opinions isn't really constructive.

Because there are now more people up there, there are plenty of people who have hit the cap since then, and I've heard more "oh no I hit the cap, dammit" more than I've heard "I'm no longer bored!"

I KNOW I'm in the minority here, but I think that would be amazing motivation. While it does totally suck missing out becuase you had work/school/fmaily obligations or whatever. It is pretty awesome to have something that directly rewards minute for minute time invested. i'd rather not ever see it be that the top 10 can battle for 2 hours and be confident in getting the top prize while pets 11-30 have to spend far more time to do the same. and then lower pets basically never have a chance no matter how much effort they put in. As it stands now I've seen lower pets put in great effort and it actually paid off for them, that's awesome! I can't wait for them to get to the cap so I can compete more directly with them.

I think the same idea also applies to opponent high scores lists (which again are broken but, they're coming back... right?)

End-game isn't literally the end of the game, it's the content you have when you are the highest level in a game. Such as maxing out opponents (I mean MAXING, not 10 wins per opponent) and competing in plots and maybe even pvp one day!

well said to long to quote lol

i know the feeling on level boosters i was ranked 40 at cap now 61 after spending millions on intel to get it to 59 the other day only to be at 61 AGAIN

a good exp cost by tier tier 13 jump 750 exp each tier 14 jump 1500 exp each tier 15 jump 2500 exp each tier 16 jump 5000 exp each and so on ;)

I know many people will say this is crazy, or I can still boost intel or level etc. I haven't read any reasons not to raise or remove the cap, just opinions. I have read some really interesting ideas on changing aspects of things as a whole. I HAVE read a lot of reasons to raise/remove the cap. I am in favor of raising/removing the cap. I can attest to my path to being capped. I spent more than $500 US to buy CSC used to buy weapons and boosters not including 25 CSC per pet per day every day for years (I don't want to calculate) to try and get to the top. Relentless training, battling for exp, spending and boosting, while on vacation and traveling. All of this, only to be throttled. I did get to the top 10-15, and I worked hard for it, like so many others, only to fall back. I capped for the weapon for an opponent, and it just wasn't good enough.

There is literally nothing motivational, to me, to know that if I miss one minutes worth of battling that I'm out of the race. While I get that some users find that fantastic, and some people are in a place in their life that they can literally sit in a chair for 24 hours grinding... but there's a lot of us who can't do that.

Subeta isn't paying my mortgage, it's not paying my bills.. it's not giving me a cent, and because of that I can't just call out from work for two days for the off chance that I win something if I don't sleep/eat/move/pee in a cup. That's utterly ridiculous, and the fact that I can't at least rationalize that "well at least my pet's got 10k stats on a lot of these battlers-- hopefully I can still have a chance if I sleep/go to work" means I don't try. I fight like 50-75 times and go "whatever" and move on with my life. You have to understand that THAT isn't fun nor fair for about as many users who seem to support the cap for that very reason.

End game means end of game. The end. It's over. Go home before we hose you down. That's what END means, the fact that users want there to be a the end so they never have to care again is a bigger problem than users who want to keep training? This is really so backwards to me like PUNISH THE PEOPLE WHO CARE A LOT-- CARING IS DUMB AND SCARY BURN THEM AS WITCHES ALL HAIL PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DO AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE AND NEVER LOOK AT THIS AGAIN BECAUSE THEY HATE IT. If they hate it, they shouldn't feel forced to participate and forcing users who love it to not participate is so.. backwards?

I fully support two bosses each running 8-12 hours and if you fight one you cannot fight the other-- not one pet with boss a and another pet with boss b, no you fight ONE boss or you fight the OTHER boss end of story. Otherwise you'll STILL have people sitting there for 24 hours battling and will potentially get double loot :P No, two bosses where you can only fight one-- that is rational, and supports people going to sleep and not calling out from work/school. Subeta is a site who is supposed to pride itself in being aimed at an older target audience and as such it needs to acknowledge the fact that older human beings have responsibilities AND with older responsibilities they have cash. Cash that the site needs to function. Cash that people won't spend here if they're turned away due to capped pets and 24 hour non-bill-paying boss fights.

End-game does not mean that at all for online computer games. It's meaning in any online game I've ever played has been, the content for which you grind away levels in order to reach. It's your ultimate goal of things to participate in. For most games this means huge boss battles, or huge PVP wars, which totally require being at the highest possible level which is always a finite number. For subeta it's slightly different in that we barely have boss battles and don't have pvp (yet?). So it's more the opponent high scores and what-not and for some it's starting a new pet to make an even better end-game build.

Also what's wrong with rewarding people who directly want to invest that amount of time into subeta if it's completely and utterly not required and no individual pet at the cap has a real advantage over another. IMO subeta does not have nearly enough things that directly reward time invested. For me, on any given day, I can play for an hour, get all my quests done, vend if I feel like, etc. and be rewarded exactly the same as if I played 3-4 hours doing... err well there's not really anything else to do for me.

Because it's not fair. The whole point of the cap was to make things more fair, and by having 24 hour boss battles that are unhealthy for people and the servers is unfair.

By that logic, because i have money to burn I should be able to buy my way through everything on subeta? There should be a magical "capped pet stats" option in the cash shop for $500... because hey, I have the money right?

@ Andrea It's fair in that every person with a stat capped pet has a chance to get a top prize. Letting people go above and beyond and take pain staking efforts to try and get two isn't unfair, it's rewarding.

And realistically, you could just buy a capped pet from the cash shop, it just wouldn't have jack for intelligence/AP and would cost significantly more than $500. Or you could sell the CSC and buy tomes and whatnot which at least 2 people have done from basically 0-capped, and battle set, in the last year that I know of, for sure. CSC is a huge advantage on subeta, which it ought to be since it supports the site. But it should be rewarding to invest time and actually play the game and even go above and beyond, obviously not as much so as paying for the site to exist, but it still ought to be somewhat.

Nope, for $500 I should be able to buy a capped pet of my choosing. I should also be able to just buy intel boosters, in mass. Because hey, I have the money right? Same logic.

And how exactly is letting people go "above and beyond" with 24 hour battles but not letting them go "above and beyond" with training any more fair? How is letting users kill the site for 24 hours, not sleep, call out from work or risk missing something any more fair than letting me train my pet more? If it's acceptable to let users go "above and beyond" on one, then it should be okay to let them go "above and beyond" in another aspect should it not?

Regardless of what the cap does it's ridiculous to not only allow people but encourage them to spend that much time doing one thing. I understand staff would like users to spend more time on subeta but the fact that every single boss battle it's the exact same users winning is HARDLY fair. I understand said people put the most time in but the fact that it's the same users always winning because they could and did spend 24 hours = yeah the site is basically encouraging the same few users to beat themselves up while the rest of the site is like "eh I'll log back on in a few days this lag is dumb and why bother fighting if I can only put in a few hours".

That isn't fair or fun or encouraging to anyone to participate. And I'm just not seeing how me being able to train my pet more is a bigger problem and so much more unfair and horrible than that.

Why $500 exactly? I don't understand the point you're trying to make? It does cost a lot as is, but it's been done.

Letting people go above and beyond rewards them for actually playing the game. That should be the entire focus of a game, making people actually play it. Second should come, ok now how to we get people to fund it, while still keeping ti very playable.

Letting people train infinitely stops anyone who is up and coming from going above and beyond. If the people at the top are the ones that go above and beyond, they're going to continue to go above and beyond, no one is ever going to be able to compete with them. That's not a good game model...

And I don't understand how you think it's fair that a user who has a pet that is just ridiculously statted being able to win a top boss prize with exponentially less time than a user who dedicates their time to the site, but can't ever reach anywhere near the top of pet stats since it's always growing faster than they are., is any more fair?

I'm curious, have you ever heard of/watched twitch tv. If not it's a websites for people who play video games to broadcast themselves playing video games. And people watch. Some of these people have done marathon streams where they literally play video games non-stop for days. I believe the record is something like 5 days.

My point is just because SOME users can doesn't mean it should be a thing. Just because I could offer Keith $750 to generate a new copy of an old godly for me-- does that mean it should happen? Just because I can afford it? No. So, by that same logic, it shouldn't be okay for users to spend 24 hours battling something just because they have the time to do so.

Letting people train is still playing the game? You have to log in to train, you have to have sP to afford to train-- I'm still playing? My pet isn't sitting over here training himself y'know?

I don't, frankly, give a hot steaming pile of shit about the boss fights. If they're going to be 24 hours I'd actually LOVE to never see a single one happen again :'D It's unfun and boring and stupid so therefore they should never ever happen again :'((! I mean that's why everyone wants the cap, yeah? Because training is a big fat doodyhead and smelly and no one likes it? So, there we go-- a grand compromise!

The cap can stay where it is, and there will NEVER be another boss battle n__n Fantastic, I'm glad we've had this conversation.

No, really, how is someone who's put in an astronomical amount of time and effort and money into training a pet any different than spending 24 hours battling? I've spent far far more than 24 hours capping that pet, I'll have you know.

Not to mention the fact that I've stated, several times, that I don't want a phantom cap-- and that a 12 hour x2 boss battle that you can only participate in once. I have no idea why you seem to think any cap rise is bad and a 24 hour battleton sounds like a fantastic idea, when it isn't.

Just because a small group of people think 24 hours of battling is amazing and that everyone should be on the same playing field regardless of how long it takes to get there doesn't mean that's the best way to do something.

-- And no, I haven't heard of it nor am I interested. I watch(ed) a fair amount of let's plays and I listen to creepypastas. That's adorable that some people have that much time on their hands, but I'm an adult. I have a job, I have shit to do, and I don't have that kinda time.

I'm sensing that you think I need to get off subeta because I have no place here. if that's what the cap supports, than perhaps I do need to leave yeah?

I find that first paragraph to be rather ridiculous so I'm not going to address it.

Training daily: It's not actively playing the game though, you can just as easily sign in, do your BQs put your pet for its ridiculously long training time and be done with it. That's not taking into account boosters but I'm going to hold off on that point for a bit.

I disagree that people who want a stat cap don't want to train. In fact part of the reason I want a stat cap is because I love training, just I'd much prefer to have an interesting variety of builds at the stat cap, even if some of them totally suck, rather than just train one pet with my all forever, and give the others their bihourly gym lesson, forever.

I'm well aware of how long it takes to cap a pet, but that doesn't mean that people who spent all that time to cap, and then now want to spend some great amount of time actively playing the game shouldn't be rewarded.

I'm also aware that you're in favour of the cap rise and not the phantom cap, you should also be aware that I agree with you in so much as that point, and that while addressing you personally some of my comments are more general. Also I do find 24 hour battles ridiculously fun, call me quirky XD.

OK now to make a small point about boosting (and to reference the stat cap discussion in general and not just your view). Let's consider that all someone wants to do on subeta is battle. Sure they do other things to make money but they pour that directly back in to battling, always. So they've been playing for two years, have a pretyt good pet at 15k stats, though they realied after 1.5 yeasr that they really don't like how their stats are, but luckily they had been training a few different pets who are at about 800 evens stats or so. So now the stat cap is removed. They continue to devote their all in to battling even manage to reach the old stat cap. But now when it comes time for an event with a boss battle the check the high score lists and see that the top pets have each managed to gain over 15k stats each and the number 1 even gained over 20k! (this is a fairly realistic representation of what would happen immediately following the abolition of the stat cap) Well, of course they did, the top players have more sP, that's how they stay at the top. Well let's say boss battle are only 6 hours and there's only one battle instance. The up and coming player happens to be on at exactly the minute it starts and decides to dedicate that full 6 hours. It's 6am subeta time so there's only like 500 other players on, and luckily absolutely none of the top 50 are logged in, in fact none of them even wake up until 9am. Well then maybe that player has a shot, they keep battling blah blah. The results are released and that player came in 100th place. The top 10 won the top 10 slots even though they were only on for half the time and didn't even spend that time battling. Now they all get a top prize that they can sell and use to boost to an even higher margin over this up and coming battler. The up and coming battler is very competitive but this keeps happening over and over so they just give up. That's exactly what I expect to happen to battling if the cap is abolished. No one wants to dedicate their all in to something they'll never be able to compete in, and we need more battlers there's not enough as is. That to me is singly enough not to abolish the cap.

to put it in perspective, with a capped pet and nearly non-stop battling, I was able to secure a top spot in all of the last few wars. The number 1 battler however spent a small fraction of the time I did into the bosses and was easily able to FAR out due my damage total. They only have ~6-7k more core stats than me I do believe, without looking, and yet they were able to do obscenely more damage in a far shorter amount of time. Part of that is in having a better set, which obviously should give a hefty advantage to a boss fight, that's fine. But there should not be a way to do that significantly more of damage in so much shorter of a time, period.

If they had had that policy they likely also would have said that any pet who caps will have their xp set to 0 to prevent instant recapping from stored xp, which does make sense.