The Hustler has been acting extra shifty lately. Maybe you should investigate...
In a completely unrelated note, an important weapons shipment mysteriously "went missing" this afternoon. We managed to salvage a few Fanciful Boxes that were overlooked in the theft, and will be holding those for future battle event prizes. Unfortunately, everything else appears to be long gone.
The OG godlies were actually never battle loot. Generally only the top 1-2 people would win them during a site plot or restock war, or a lucky few would snag them from the crystal shop (where they also sold out instantly to a few rich users). They were even harder to get in the old days -- InSaNe explains it well in this post.
But are they going to actually have time to do that? Correct me if Im wrong, its been several hours since I last looked at the page, but the 9bil box says there are 8 left, and that was lower earlier? So you've restocked it because the og set sold out or almost sold out it in just over a day. Its going to be the same few people currently rich enough buying them again. no one has time to liquidate or convert 1100 in csc if they want too. Which is why they keep being called out on just gatekeeping yet again [especially when its an item that used to be available by battle loot and is now only blind chance].
Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen an explanation for why the weapons that used to only be achieved through difficult battling, the way others earned it, are now no longer an option for that item and you have to go through blind boxes.
but either way I dont need stats to know that pricing an item out to 1100 in CSC to USD conversion is a bad idea or that an item on this site could be priced out to that at all is a condemnation of the battle economy.
I said more than 40 people had 9B in pure SP already lying around last week. That's not including CSC -- if you add that in, the number jumps (sorry if this is vague, but I doubt I'm allowed to give out exact numbers). Also, we never wanted or expected these 40 godlies to sell out instantly. We're fine if they trickle out over the course of a year -- gives people time to liquidate items or convert CSC if they want to.
If the richest user stat is broken does that mean this entire page is as well?
Eight have sold so far, so you very well could move up, haha!
Wait this whole time youve been saying that more than enough people on subeta could afford the boxes if they wanted them and now youre saying that it was only 40 people who could afford 9bil?
You think something that only 40 people could afford IF they wanted too was a good way to release an item?
I would have loved to see a more equitable release rather than this (like maybe one god-tier item released each month for a year as a random event), but the truth is, I'm never going to want to throw enough real-world money into this game to afford those items - hey, I have mouths to feed!
sorry if i'm missing something and i'm not trying to be mean, but like... just bcos there are over 40 people with the bare minimum amount of sp to purchase doesn't mean that these are remotely affordable. and i get that they're special items... but draining your whole account for a gacha is really... hmm
i hope all of the rich ppl spend their money on these and boost my rank hehehe
The richest user thing has been broken for a while, unfortunately. Right before we released the boxes, there were more than 40 people with 9B on hand + vault (and that was SP only, not including any CSC they had).
According to my Dashboard, I'm the "34th richest user" on the site, and yet have only a bit over half a billion sp - nowhere near enough for one godly box. So it seems to me that only the people who already have godly weapons will be able to get these new ones. Instead of "protecting" the value by limiting the quantity of new releases of the weapons but still giving newer folks a chance at them, they're just going to end up in the hands of the same people who already have the "investments" to begin with. I suppose that mirrors real-world problems with wealth-distibution anyway!
I've been a member for 15 years and got into battling late. Frankly, I still don't understand how it all works, but I make it work in my own way. I slowly built up two of my pets; one being a T13 and the other a T12. I didn't end up with the earlier "Godly" weapons because my pets at the time where not strong enough. But I have a nice set now that includes the other "high tier" weapons. The admins state the don't want to "devalue" the old Godly's to the older players, because they will get mad, but doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I'm missing something, IDK. I would rather have seen you bring back the old challengers and allowed the players who are either new or didn't have strong pets at the time a chance to beat them. I would have rather seen a battle challenger week as done in the past during the "Gelly" wars. You could have made the Neochrome Spork the weapon won for beating the hardest challenger. You have it in your programming that you can only win the weapon once, so I don't see how this would devalue the old Godly's. Did you bother to ask the players that are still on after 15-16 years, if they would mind if your brought back the old Godly's? I doubt the would've minded. That's my two cents.
First post in the Battle Chat has them behind a spoiler tag. https://subeta.net/forums.php/read/920231/Battle-Chat-2021-Part-3
does anyone even have a list of what even comes in them???
My last comments on this topic: (please don't ping me!)
I see a few comments talking about how admins have a "tone" or are sarcastic or passive aggressive in their responses. I can see how their responses can be taken that way but personally, I have never perceived their comments and replies to have those vibes. I feel like they're all pretty professional and still personable when communicating with us.
Second, I think gacha/lucky dip type items and games can be fun and have their place! I think the Chance Machines are a great implementation of this. I think it's totally ok to try new things and mechanics to see if they'll work for the community. But this and at that price point? I think it was a very bad idea.
Finally, I hope that this can lead to another discussion in the future with staff and users to talk about this situation, what didn't work (as shown here in the VAST number of comments) and how things can be improved! I know we all care about this site, staff included, and we ALL want what's best to help keep this place going. <3
I ain’t reading all that I’m happy for you though or sorry that happened
I've read every comment here, every single one. I just don't want Subeta to die.
Other items have also historically been done in the Antique Shop or the Millionaire Center in unlimited quanities so there's never been a time restriction on becoming highly liquid in pure sP.
I held off a day on making this post to see the overall impact, responses, and let those first second negative thoughts have time to marinate.
I don't get why the investment and value of every other item in this game doesn't get left alone when other items are untouchable.
Quote:
This makes no sense because no other groups of people anywhere on Subeta get their "investments" protected.
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Additionally, many battlers are upset about the way these items were re-released and released. They&;ve wanted to be able to earn their godlies just like people did in the past. There are a lot of ways that have been suggested for this such as Crystal Shop stocks
There's really no difference between X Godly Boxes and Y Fanciful Boxes going into the Crystal Shop to control the # released versus an sP sink. Or Even skip the damn boxes and put your intended amount of each item. Plenty of us would be more than happy to gobble up items other than the Kwand and Spork. It really makes no sense why we had to wait so long for "programming" when the crystal shop was already capable of handling this release from the start.
Posts have been about a "new" battle page that made it seem like the impression for those of us who have missed out on all past opportunities to have similar ways to obtain old weapons (I wasn't even expecting godlies). I've been spending billions getting pets ready for battle and what these boxes have done to the economy right now I don't see myself being able to get liquid enough to get one of the godly boxes in time and it stings.
When I've spent literal billions on getting my Crystal to that level, the top rated pet as of this post and my Recycle Beast Points to a decent level and billions on the majority of the weapons in the game…..you have to understand how frustrating that this is how new weapons are released and how other weapons are assigned a reduction in value.
P.P.P.....S.: Since someone compiled a list, which seems to be complete now - Why is the
Tainted Keeper Skull Staff
in the box, but not the other event weapons like
Malhuili Ancestral Unrest Lambent Guardian Crystal ... ????? !!!!!
I don't "like Crystal Shop restocks so much". That was just a way Godlies got rerelease and promised to come back as. And I still expect this promise to be kept.
And at good last, while I am not in favour of this boxes and price idea, I don't condone, how some have unfairly personally attacked and insulted our battle admins with implications of incompetence, power hunger and reluctance. They have been working their butts off for us over many years now and can only move within the site's restriction, which leaves them as frustrated as many, who have posted here (or not). More often than not, they discuss topics with the battle community!
Price tags for both boxes are way off. Godlies most heavily overpriced, fancyful highly underpriced.
I've started a topic about this in the Site Feedback forum because it takes forever to get these comments to load now with all the 504 errors.
Re Crystal shop price for Godlies: I definitely still KNOW the price and have been working towards it!
took like 5 refreshes to get the comment section to load and i'm not gonna read every comment because i don't hate myself that much but just at a glance, i don't really like this. and like, i have a t13 and t12. i like battling. hell i used to buy the csc challengers when i was really into the site
but this just feels... idk pointless? surely there were better ways to re-release these weapons? maybe ways that idk involve battling? battling as a whole is a massive sp sink where you really won't make back even a fraction of what you spend in training/weapons, so having these weapons go out in wildly expensive chance boxes that aren't even always stocked (if you have a job and can't check subeta every few hours i guess you're shit out of luck) feels like such a wasted opportunity man
i won't really comment on the topic of battling being too grindy or hard to get into because in all honesty i enjoy stupid grindy repetitive games so i'm not one to talk, but so many people, time and time again, say they hate battling/don't understand it and i think making battling as a game mechanic more accessible should be more of a priority rather than..... whatever the hell this is
Come to think of it - after finally getting a little sleep having stayed up till morning to read everything, rofl: I can only chime in with people, who ask, why 3 new mysterious weapons in the 9 milliard chance machine segment have been created? There is no preservation of anybody's hard earned prizes (I repeat, why were my fellow top Reading Drivers and I excluded from that clique?)
I am curious to see their stats. Surely they MUST be able to slay the whole Gelly army in 3 strikes single handedly for that price?
😂😂😂 I'm not reading all these comments and I honestly cannot stand how this site handles things like stupidly unobtainable weapons.
Y'all could've tied weapon rereleases to achievements for fighting old challengers that you absolutely could rerelease rather than making a 9b box with a chance at who knows what. Literally nobody is asking to be handed weapons but things could be done in such a way that you already have to have a highly trained pet (look at that bonkers investment time and money wise - does that count for nothing?) and the skill and ability to beat the challengers to earn them. I love that this really is the only "protected investment" on site and continues to be despite the fair number of criticisms this constantly receives. I also love that already difficult to obtain/expensive/rare weapons have recently been made into wearables as if they didn't already have too many uses in combos. Y'all really just want a few folks to be at the top of the chain. And sure, some of them bought their weapons after the fact but a lot of these came from a time before pet tiers and weapon restrictions. Also...in order to earn billions to buy weapons you're either buying csc with $ and selling it or you...had expensive things to sell to begin with from having access to be able to win the top prizes every event etc.
Gatekeeping, since it seems ultra confusing based on the staff replies about it, is making sure only the people in a very tiny group can have access to something. You do it by, say, making sure only those people can ever win the top prizes. Or by "releasing" something with such a high price tag that only people already sitting at the top can get it. By, you know, making access to a chunk of the battling so difficult that only a small portion of folks can do it. And that anyone not part of that group has to go begging for help (weapon lending) to even come close to trying to get there. It's like when the only way to beat certain challengers is to have the weapons they drop (which you can't get until you beat them unless you borrow) or to have a multi billion sP godly weapon that is virtually impossible to get unless you're already at the top of the site...or to hope the people sitting up high on that top will so graciously lend you their weapon. I love having a high tier pet and pretty good weapons and scrolls and still being completely unable to beat certain challengers that should be easy for my pet except I can't throw more thousands away to buy just this one weapon you gotta have.
I feel like literally none of the feedback from the vast majority of users - including the battle community who also seem overwhelmingly against this rerelease method - was taking into consideration at all.
Also, as a sidebar, Subeta is not protecting the investment of CW people - the rule about stated limits was to prevent scams and users taking advantage of other users, not to protect investments. It's very disingenuous to pretend that that is the same thing as y'all not rereleasing weapons in a way that doesn't mean you have to have billions of sP sitting around.
I wish the staff had had this attitude back in 2014 -- some of us spent "literal years of work" on our galleries instead of on weapons, and they just went poof one April. Knowing that our efforts never got the same level of consideration that other people's efforts got is a recurring reminder that some Subetans are second-class citizens.
This is true, but simplifying the issue. While other items (such as old plot and event prizes) have seen price crashes when they were eventually rereleased, we're talking stuff worth, as you said, "tens of millions" of SP, not billions. We wouldn't feel right reducing an item someone had spent literal years of work obtaining to a fraction of its price. It also isn't necessary to do so, as not having these specific godlies won't block anyone from progressing in the game. (If people just want them as wearables, not weapons... we're open to that and are discussing that with Amber now.)
As I mentioned before, I think of godlies as being similar to limited CWs... except less exclusive, as limited CWs can never be rereleased.
I might be missing something, but why do people like Crystal Shop restocks so much? It seems similar to buying stuff with SP, but with an extra step. I know people can frag their useless battle loot for crystals, but that wouldn't even come close to getting them the number of crystals they'd need for a godly, so they'd be back to spending SP.
This is disingenuous. We priced these in SP instead of CSC for a reason. We know there are enough people on site who already have the SP to buy every single godly box if they wanted to. The intention here was never to make people spend real money.
I've already explained why they're chance boxes, but briefly: We wanted approximately five of each godly to go out, but we knew if we sold them separately in the mil center (or Crystal Shop, or Battle Shop), the KWand and Spork would sell out immediately and people would complain that they couldn't get the godly they most wanted. The chance box idea isn't perfect, but it does facilitate trading/selling the "unwanted" godlies, which ultimately gets more of them into the game... and while KWand and Spork are the best, every single godly in the box is worth more than 10b, so there's not a booby prize among the lot. No one risks losing SP when they buy this box.
I haven't seen anyone promising an event; I know Purge and I certainly haven't. Is this a case of people misinterpreting Amber's talk about upcoming battle-related stuff and assuming it was bigger than it was? That said, we are planning a Gelatin War for this winter, and there will be a bunch of battling coming up in the fall.
I touched on this before, but when Purge and I want art for something, we have to request it through the art department. If there aren't enough resources for something, they're not shy about telling us no! Item/wearable art doesn't take long; for example, I requested overlays for Shinwas Lightning, Thunderball, Hydragellos Maniacal Core, Malerias Cursed Arm Bangle, and some other miscellaneous weapons recently and the artist flew through them that same evening and the next day. Pets are much more involved.
We share people's frustration with the battle mechanics and the non-newbie-friendly aspects. We're discussing that with Keith, Amber, and Bug now to see what we can do. As for our power... managing battle-related stuff is our entire job, so naturally we make most of the decisions, but that doesn't mean we have carte blanche --there's a lot of stuff we literally can't do without Amber and Bug, and we often discuss features (like this Hustler chance box) in depth before they're released.
Early in these news post comments, there were several people implying the other admins are afraid of us, or cave to our requests to keep us happy, and that's not the case -- I think that was the result of people misinterpreting Amber's jokey comments!
This I'm honestly surprised to hear. I know Purge and I haven't been taking things personally; we understand people's frustration and try our best to look through the anger and pick out the valid points. Mostly we've been trying to answer questions and explain the reasoning behind our decisions so that people can understand where we're coming from, even if they dislike it.
I think the "nasty reply" you're referring to was my comment about not understanding how this release was gatekeeping, correct? This one?
That wasn't actually aimed at you (which is why I didn't ping or quote you); it was a general response to all the accusations of "gatekeeping" that were flying around. I understand gatekeeping to be deliberately attempting to prevent people from joining/identifying with a community or progressing in that community, which isn't the case here. I've found that veteran battlers are happy to help newbies, and Purge and I take care to provide all tiers of battler with a wide variety of useful weapons and challengers.
If people are using "gatekeeping" in this case to mean "maintaining the exclusivity of certain weapons," I'm not sure how that fits either, as we're adding 40 more of those weapons to the game at the lowest price they've ever been (adjusting for current SP value). I'd think that refusing to ever rerelease them and watching the price rise year after year until nobody could ever hope to obtain one would be gatekeeping. I suspect the issue here is that everyone is using the "gatekeeping" term somewhat differently and we're getting our wires crossed.
Sorry for the absolute wall of text. Hope this clears some stuff up! I'm sorry you felt attacked; that was never my intention. :)
Just cancelled my subscription. The site has been less and less appealing during the last couple of years, and while I have no interest in battling, it’s clear to see that there is waning interest in attracting new users and is more interested in protecting elite users wealth.
You're thinking of simplicity in the wrong mindset: what people mean is that they want a system designed with accessibility and usage in mind, not a system that has no substance. So making something less complex isn't the same as making something mindless, in fact the reason so much of battling for me right now is mindless clicking is because it's so complex that there's literally no point for me to waste time for every single opponent/weapon/scroll to find and then read a new guide for it (because hello, that's boring, and doesn't allow me to exercise my own brain power), especially if I can just mindlessly click my way through most opponents with a T12. Making it simpler would mean that I can actually a) use my own logic/knowledge in a way that is b) active rather than passive for c) every opponent individually. Aka if done correctly it would not only add "a little challenge" to it, but it would also make battling more engaging and fun as an activity.
My old wearables and trivia prize and holiday and ... and ... investments regularly get deflated, purposely. Like expressly to make them achievable for new people.
Still don't get why battling gets to be untouchable.
But I also know trying to comment about this is wasting my breath, hard, so eff it. If y'all really can't see the sentiment forest for the comment trees at this point it's beyond hopeless.
Getting a blank page too :(
First, let me just preface this by saying I absolutely did not read all 400+ comments on here so I'm guaranteed to be missing things, thanks for explaining it.
I agree that there's a better way they could have released this, but mostly from what I've seen in my 15 years on the site is that certain investments are at least partially protected. It's not special to battlers. There's CW, Cash shop, pet potions, MC items, etc that on whole tend to keep their value. Godlies are hard to get, and I don't think flooding the market is going to help anything. It's meant to be something to work towards. But yes, I agree that there are absolutely other ways that players should be able to work towards obtaining one.
Again, I didn't read all the comments here, but I thought I did see a staff member say that battle things are still coming like a gelly war or something. I guess people were hoping for more than that?
There are tens of thousands of wearable items on the site and that number grows all the time. It really does feel like people are just complaining that they can't afford a wearable they like, there are tons of other items to use. I don't feel like my wardrobe is at all deprived due to lack of staff resources. We just got plenty of new wearables from holiday events and likely more on the way as fireside and Morostide approach.
The battle system could of course use improvements, and I am all for them. However, staff have already said they don't have the programmers to really mess with any of that anytime soon (or ever probably). If people want to battle, jump in, we were all new at one time and it's really not as hard as some people here are making it seem.
Again, I didn't read all the comments here, only a small fraction and from what I saw people, staff included, were being polite. I obviously missed some and I'm truly sorry that you and others are feeling this way.
still getting a blank page there
Does Subeta ever take new volunteers to help out with the site or anything? I have no experience programming a website so I might be more a burden to train, which I understand. But I've played on the site for years and have left repeatedly because of things like battling feeling underdeveloped. And well... Now I have a comp sci degree lol. Love to help if that's ever feasible.
No, that's not actually the issue. There's a handful of different problems that have basically combined to create this huge snowball.
The main one is that staff have specifically stated here in these comments that they did the re-release this way to protect the "investment" of people who already have godlies. This makes no sense because no other groups of people anywhere on Subeta get their "investments" protected. Everything can be re-released and generally speaking, Subeta has done a decent job of that. You might spend tens of millions on an item to have it devalued a week later, but that's how its always been. Except for the teeny tiny percentage of battlers who own godlies, apparently. People are extremely upset to see this very tiny group of users receiving special treatment that no group has ever gotten before.
Additionally, many battlers are upset about the way these items were re-released and released. They've wanted to be able to earn their godlies just like people did in the past. There are a lot of ways that have been suggested for this such as Crystal Shop stocks (as promised by staff 10 years ago), loot from an opponent, achievements, or being in the Battle Shop. No one ever wanted loot boxes. Especially not loot boxes that cost over $1,000 USD.
Another problem is that staff have been teasing about a battling event for quite a while. Battlers have been really excited about this. Some have been working on their pets and weapon/scroll sets in preparation. The "event" turned out to be insanely expensive loot boxes. This is extremely disappointing for anyone who was even a little excited about an actual battle event or plot happening. People feel very cheated with staff getting their hopes up so high for this.
The wearable issue you're seeing is not that a rare, expensive wearable was released. The problem comes from the fact that staff have been saying for years how limited their resources are. We've gotten almost no pets and less items due to this shortage. People are upset to see these extremely limited resources being used on an extremely rare weapon. People who buy these items to battle with are not going to be moving them back and forth from their wardrobe to their battle set. This means that the art that went into the wearable overlay was a waste. The overlay is beautiful and people want to use it, but in reality its quite likely that no one is ever going to. That's poor allocation of Subeta's limited resources.
The conversation kind of morphed and many people expressed their desire to battle but their frustration at both the mechanics of the system and how the whole department is run (in regards to weapon re-releases, battle admin power, etc). A lot of long-term dedicated users shared frustrations and made suggestions about how to improve battling and make it more welcoming for total newbies and newbies to battling specifically. Based on the battle admins' comments here, a lot of people feel very alienated and like they're not welcome in battling because they're not already elite battlers. People have been expressing those frustrations as well.
Another problem is that there have been some extremely condescending and rude replies from staff in the news comments in general. This has upset quite a few people and as someone who got one of those nasty replies, it hurt. Aside from maybe a small handful of comments, users have been really polite and provided some genuinely great insight into and suggestions on how to address the issues they're having. It feels like staff don't care about this at all as instead of responding to any of those messages, they've been replying only to tiny snippets of comments, taking things personally, and making vague-Tweet esque comments in response to users' valid concerns.
lol well if I feel up to reading it again I'll be sure to give feedback.
So what I'm getting is that people are upset that the staff have released a wardrobe item that's really expensive? I have plenty of stuff on my wishlist that I'll probably never get and I'm okay with that. If you really desperately want it, then I guess that's a goal to work towards but so what if there's an item on the site you'll probably never own? How is that hurting anyone? It didn't even exist a week ago.
i think the problem is that people dont view it as "a little challenge". As it stands most users dont even understand HOW the battle system works. Theres long time battlers in this post saying they barely understand how the icon aspect works. Thats a fundamental issue and if the people who have done this for years cant understand it how are new people meant to? No one wants battle to just be "mindless" they want it to be accessible for new players/new for battle. The battle system has needed a facelift for a while and its just becoming an issue that becomes more glaring as time goes.
I am indeed biased due to being seasoned in battling at this point (I think 10 years now of being at this??). That's why I'm reaching out to people for help in curating the current guide to be less obtuse. Because it has seriously been a long time since I was a newb at battling. xD My judgment is clouded as a result, so in order to make the guide better, I need all the feedback I can get. It's not a guide for veteran battlers (though they can use it too if they need help!), it's for the newbies coming into battling. It's my responsibility to run the guide, but it's others responsibility to chime in when something isn't clear in the guide to them.
That's why I ask for participation on the battle forum, we don't want people going this alone if they still need help! We have desserts to tempt you in to chat with us! xD
I mean, the staff themselves have stated in this discussion that new users do not get into battling. They asked us for ideas to make things open to new users. So multiple players have brought up the complexity of the battle system as a barrier. Then we get sarcasmed by other users for suggesting ways to make things open for a larger portion of the player base?
Simplified and easy to understand =/= mindless clicking.
Its not your job to fix it so that's fair. You are doing your best with it and the fact that you make guides and try to walk people through it is an awesome service to the community. I do think you are a little bias because you understand the battle system well enough. However, it seems like if you do a quick statistical analysis from just this forum alone, MOST people do not understand it despite trying multiple times. That means it's an issue for the majority of users. Even the people who are adept with it are saying it's archaic so clearly, there is room for improvement. Its a whole feature of the site that's just inaccessible to most users
I can't believe, people want battling less complex! You want it more boring? I would think we have enough mindless clicking here on site - including battling. A little challenge adds entertainment.
i made it halfway through the comments before i couldn't keep reading but genuinely, can we stop pretending like this is strictly about battling when some of these battle items exclusive to 9bil loot boxes are wearable? lol. if this was only about battling then weapons wouldn't be wearable. stop making weapons have cool wearables and gating people who aren't battlers out of getting them by hiding them behind excuses like "we have to make them expensive so we don't devalue them" - especially regarding the ones that were created FOR the loot boxes. what even have i walked into. jesus.
Whoa, battling is not that complicated, at least not the way I do it. You train your pets, find some weapons in your tier (there are great guides in the battle forum), and fight some opponents. Some times you win, sometimes you get your butt kicked and go to the healer and try again. I don't even pay attention to the icons 98% of the time. I only look at that if I'm having trouble beating an opponent that I think I should be able to take. In that case you adjust your set to deal icons they don't block and to block icons the opponent deals a lot of. I don't find that hard or confusing. Am I missing something?
you could buy two of the cheaper boxes each day, so because this started before the daily reset, some people caught one restock yesterday and one today and managed to buy their limit both times.
"I cannot make you understand something you clearly do not want to learn about."
That's pretty harsh and very passive-aggressive and completely uncalled for. I have read and reread the guides I've found, but even the lingo used sometimes throws me off. It's a complex system, but clearly I just "don't WANT to understand" and that's a good enough reason to be dismissive of me. Just because you are able to understand the math behind icon damage and catelog thousands of on-site weapons doesn't mean everyone should be able to--or HAVE to in order to battle. Pages and pages of guides existing and helpful people in the chat does not mean that the whole system could not benefit from being simplified. And the original topic I was discussing was how to get new players into battling. Hence suggestions to make it easier to understand and for more low level opponents. One thing I can tell everyone for sure though--telling new players and players who don't understand that "you clearly don't want to learn how to battle" will NOT make them more likely to battle.
Some info missing
[item2=Sandreaver] was won by battling -- : Genetech Lab Combination: Temple Guardians Axe Head + Cracked Satyr Blade Tip + Steele Shovel Notes: Strike the final blow to the Saheric Temple Guardian. Prize for being one of the top fighters against Saheric Temple Guardian! Achievement Prize: Life Is A Satyr, Defeat the Satyr of the Wilds 10 times~ ~From Fragmentizer shop( Crystal shop ) :[item2=Keiths Ultimate Freezewand of Doom]Official Price: 90,000 CrystalsJust thought to throw that out there... Peace!