The pawn shop problem explains why most CWs have been made private anymore - to prevent people from selling CWs there. Getting rid of the CW Pawn shop will benefit CW sellers so they don't have to lock so many items all the time.
well, this is disappointing :c
I would like to now the reasoning behind this as well. I'm really bummed. I like buying from the pawn shop for wishlist items.
All I can say is, it will definitely see a lot of use. Haha.
Right?!?! I was like...what is this magical thing you have created -tears of joy- If I didn't need to go to bed I'd start doing random searches to test it too haha.
Searching random stuff right now and it's so much better than before! Just amazing to be able to search and it works.
Definitely try out the search! It's going to make finding things so much easier for us all.
Exactly, you just can't get everything, so you deal and move on. Not much else left to do. Attacking people certainly isn't going to help and makes people less likely to want to release or do business with you.
And the new forum search sounds awesome! I just saw it and haven't tried it out yet, but if it's as great as you're saying it is, that alone will make me so, so very happy! I'm glad it's working so well for you, too.
I'll be happy, as well. I like when Subeta is running smoothly and everyone is, more or less, peaceful. Haha.
Yeah, I'm sometimes bummed that I can't catch slots on stuff but I usually do the same as you, just shrug it off, add it to my wishlist if I still want it once it's made it on site. And there are some amazing items that are private that I'd love to own, but they're private for one reason or another so I just let it go, stick it on the wishlist, hope that one day they'll sell a public copy or trade one or something. I can see how it would breed resentment, because there was a time back in the day where I found myself getting resentful of so many of them, but one day I just kinda went "well, it's just a little more like real life honestly, since I can't get everything I want there either" and let it go and felt so much better haha.
I'm hoping that the proposed ideas we've seen so far make it on site sooner rather than later and work out better overall. The new forum search thing being tested is making me so happy - it just searched an item name for me and returned all the results with the name typed out but also all the ones where they used the code to make it hoverable in the post and I just got the biggest wave of relief because this is going to make finding what things initially slotted for so I'm giving out accurate prices on crap I sell that I don't use so much easier /diesofjoy
Hopefully things start working better for all of us and we can move past the insanity that this news post created and get happy again haha.
You're welcome and I'm glad that I can help bring a voice into the matter, as a buyer. You've put some great comments out there, too, so thank you for those.
Yeah, I've been fine with CWs, in general, ever since they came out. I love them and am happy it gives artists and CW makers a way to be creative and add things to the site that a lot of us would have never even imagined. I wasn't trying to be personal, I don't think you're all just being greedy, but just giving a feel from a buyer of how it feels/looks. It sucks from the side of buyers and sellers and I just want everyone to see/understand as much of both sides as possible and hope the staff rushes out the changes as soon as they can, so things can, hopefully, change for the better. I can't say much about people who get upset because they missed a batch, it's just not something that I get upset about and I can't make others see that, you weren't there, that's not the fault of the seller. I know others probably wouldn't want to get as serious, but when my favorite artists would announce a date, I'd put an alarm in my phone and be there five minutes early, ready with my post. If you really want an item, you have to be there. I'd miss out a few times, doing that, but I'd never get upset at the artist. It was just how it was. Plus, the site would go down randomly or lag, so even if you were at the right time, by the time you'd refresh or the site would fully load, you'd be outside the number of slots. Again, not the seller's fault. Getting some buyers to understand that is too grand of a feat for anyone. As for private slotting, I definitely understand it (because I've seen reasons for people to private slot, such as people being upset at an artist for having one certain item private, when most of their items are public and unlimited, or making very unnecessary comments on people's items that they don't even intend to buy), but it can suck for items you want. Unfortunately, there's not much us, as buyers, can do. It also breeds a little resentment when we see so many sellers saying they can't fill batches. It's like two sides of the extreme; either people can't fill batches or the items you really want are private or very limited. That, I don't even know how it can be solved. On one hand, we could do away with privates, but then sellers have the right to refuse service to someone who is making trouble for them. Maybe a staff-reviewed blacklist for shops? I say staff-reviewed because it shouldn't be full of "this person disagreed with me about a movie, so I won't sell them CWs', but more "this person came on my board and attacked my art or me, personally, so I want to block them from buying." I'm hoping they lower slotting by half and, maybe, let sellers increase the number in future batches, if they'd like to. That way, if it is popular, you can up a batch to 10-15, if you'd like.
And it's okay. I think a lot of us are just writing and not really clarifying, especially if it's a long post and you're trying to rush it., which is usually me And thank you. It's nice to have some civil conversation without a bunch of name-calling and being completely rude. I'd rather get my point across than trying to make someone feel bad or whatever, it takes from the point. Here's to hoping that the changes and these r200 shops help get CWs back to being fun and the market being more active again! Good luck selling!
Lol, that's true. Yeah, I misunderstood and confused the two, at the time, when I went back and looked at my post to see if it had loaded, I thought, "no, that's not the same thing" but I didn't want to come back and make another post to negate it because it's taking forever to load the comment section and I was too tired.
1100 items is an awful lot and yeah that's going to take you some time, good luck! I only have 3 or 4 so it'll be a bit easier for me.
You know... Maybe people would be a tad less insanely angry about this if we had some more concrete reasoning behind it. And didn't have to sift through hundreds of comments to find it.
At least it's stuff you have to do interjected with stuff you want to do xD
Oh, not the CW Shops, those aren't changing. The r200 thing is different. I was unclear on whether we could price r200 things in our regular shop for CSC or if he'd be adding a third category to shops (shop/gallery/r200 shop) but it's for CWs you don't want anymore that we've been trying to sell via trades/forums. Unless you meant Disasters has her unwanted/selling cws in a shop too in which case please ignore that rambling mess of an explanation attempt haha.
I've got roughly 1100 items in a gallery that I link to on my CW Selling thread in the r200 Advertising forum. I just want to convert it to a shop and price them out for what I want and have it already searchable so people don't have to magically check my forum if they want something. Also it saves everyone time because sometimes I just cannot get on here for a day or two beyond brief checks on my phone to do dailies (which reminds me I still need to smelt, bless that new higher option).
. I've been up as well, I've got five days off and I'm trying to read a book, watch tv, clean house, play skyrim and play around on the internet all at the same time, I haven't been getting to bed until 1am then it's another couple of hours before I actually get to sleep because that's when the cats want to run across my head. Then it's up at 5am to start all over. Work is easier than this. Yep, we're like that too, snarky and sarcastic. It's just easier in person, because of body language and inflection. Yes, it will probably take you forever, like Disasters shop, she's got a billion things in there, I don't envy her.
I scrolled down and reread and it's missing some words and a sentence break -headdesk- In my defense, I was literally awake and busy for 21 hours yesterday haha.
Ah yeah, I think we got stuck in a loop of replying to replies on that one.
Sometimes I'm snarky when I don't necessarily mean to be, it's just kinda my default setting. So if it came across as snarky, it probably left my fingers that way but not in a mean way (does that make sense? everyone I know is snarky, we always are snarky to each other without it meaning anything). But yeah, I thought we stayed away from heated/hurtful which is the most important thing. I didn't intend anything to be rude or anything so I'm glad it didn't come across that way.
Also I really wish we could have the r200 shops pricing now. I have a whole shop of crap to do haha.
Yeah, your first sentence sounded like that. It okay though, I know what you meant now. I only said it once, the rest I was just responding back with whoever was posting trying to clarify my stance.
Yep, just agree to disagree, and no you don't have to apologise, I didn't take anything the wrong way, I hope you didn't either. I'm a very laid back kinda person and it takes a lot to rile me, you'd have had to come to Phoenix, dance on my head and piss in my drink to get a raised eyebrow. I however do sometimes read peoples posts in a snarky "head voice" and I have to stop and ask myself "Did they really mean it like that? Or are they more like me, an Eeyore type? Alan Rickman is my snarky head voice, so maybe I read it like that on purpose.
I was agreeing with your excitement for the new things. I probably worded it wonky sorry. And I didn't fixate, you continued in each response to tell me how it could possibly work but we weren't willing to try, so I responded to the discussion given. We are going to have to agree to disagree, my opinion isn't solely based on a seller's standpoint, but you consider my buyer's stance tainted (despite the fact that I buy far more than I release) and refuse to acknowledge that I can look at it just as dispassionately and state that I wouldn't want to see a flat rate unlimited everything ever (for numerous reasons, not least of which is that all items aren't flat rate now, I don't want to pay 500 csc for an earring that would've slotted at 300 csc instead).
I don't think any differently about you either, it's just a discussion, not a treatise on who we are as folks ❤️ I hope I've mostly stayed civil (I tried to make sure nothing I said could be misconstrued as hurtful or attacky, whether I succeeded or not is not really up to me, but if I did come across that way at any point I sincerely apologize) and I feel that you've been civil as well, and that's pretty much the only way to have any successful dialogue, even if we don't reach an agreement.
That's exactly what I said. That I was excited to see the new changes that are going to be taking place. (we all know about the changes because we can all see staff posts) I never said I was excited to make all wearables public and unlimited. I'm not sure why you're fixated on a suggestion that I made one time.
I understand you don't agree, that's okay, we don't all have to agree, it's okay to have different opinions than others. When someone doesn't agree with you that doesn't mean they don't understand what you're saying or how you feel.
I understand that you as a seller see it differently and that you may be passionate about the reasons, but I don't agree with you about that particular thing and I most likely never will. That's okay, it doesn't make me the enemy or some terrible person because I don't agree. (not saying that's what you said or think, just in general)
I don't think of you any differently now than I did one month, two years or 5 years ago. You're just another fellow Subetan in our corner of internet that's passionate about how you feel, same as me and all the rest of us here.
We're gonna have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Sounds like a bad decision but ok.
I'm much more excited for all the changes Keith has already started building that I posted than for a nebulous idea of maybe making everything forced public as a try to fix things (because I still disagree and believe it would actually kill the market for the most part).
Just a sidenote, because I'm tired as hell and cannot do all the long posts anymore, but it wasn't some blackmail threat I made. If I was forced to have everything released be public and unlimited and could no longer control whether I released something I had made, I really just would not submit anymore. I'd stop commissioning cws and I would stop releasing them. If they do it in the future, they do it, and that will be when I stop. I like being able to have items made for my OCs that I can keep to myself. I like being able to make gifts for friends. Or to have things made with CIs that will work for my pets' TCs. I know you think it's some big old nebulous threat and really I'd keep doing it anyhow, but it wasn't said as a warning to staff to do what I say or else (because if I had my way things would be a lot different with CW shops already because mine is a cluttered mess of shit organized into a 'retired permanently' category because I can't take those things out and never slot them again like I should be able to, but I digress). It was merely a statement of fact which was echoed by another and would likely be echoed by a lot of the folks who submit to the site. Staff can do whatever they want, with or without our input, but I'm sure if they actually took that suggestion and started asking submitters, they'd get an across the board answer of 'do what you want but that will make it so I do not submit anymore' because a lot of folks have personal items on here that they didn't ever release to anyone, not even friends half the time.
The pawn shop is overflowing with so many pretties, not because people dislike these items so much, but bc csc has become insanely expencive. I know you guys try to bring those prices down, but it is not workin with (i think) 150 csc a month when a single cw has an average price of 600 csc. I also think this might be a big part of why the cw market isnt as big as before. I wish you had tried to bring it more down with the free shop :(
This makes me sad, I love the pawn shop its easy, simple, no hassle, no fighting or waiting. Something pops up I like it buy it, mine simple no waiting or dealing. I dont have to join a ton of groups and get to avoid being spammed. I do not like to play the bid war on items. I do like to see all the different items I didnt know where even out there. Just some simple concerns from a quiet simple person.
Lol, exactly! Lets just hope it doesn't take 5 years. I really want to believe that Keith and staff are really going to do right by us (and themselves) this time but after so many years, I'm wary. But I am Hopeful this time is different (not just about the pawn shop but about the site in general)! Hope for the best and prepare for the worst, as they say.
But a lot of companies make decisions and changes w/out consulting the general consumer because much of the time they first talk to the board of trustees and their employees, getting their opinions on what they see and how they feel because they deal directly with the consumer. One of the things I've seen here is that the reason ppl are upset is because the pawn shop is an easy access way to get ahold of cws w/ little effort. I'm not disagreeing, I've done the same thing. But- it's like having a constant sale and hurts the original buyer and the seller and discourages them from desiring to even put out more items for fear of no one caring and therefore no one even bothering to want to slot on it. The money from the pawn shop goes directly back to the site, not the original creator of the item. I see the pawnshop as a constant sale of items (1000 wigs 'R' us as it were) and the thing ppl liked is being able to readily get a hold of said items at a lower cost than the annoying cw market place... but then people complain that they don't buy also direct because it's too costly- the pawn is cheaper overall- but if a regular company only had consumers that only ever bought when there was a sale, they'd go out of business. So this is a way to make it work to lower cost, but try to keep the bottom line for subeta and still bring more affordable cws for everyone so there won't be a need for the pawn that really only benefits one group- the buyer (I mean it benefits subeta a little too cuz they get the profits, but still).
I'm not saying it's not a great strategy, I'm not running the show- esp as I said in a very much earlier post- that it was surprising to see this happen after they just said they were clearing out the pawn shop of 6+ old items, now it's just going to close. It's strange and while I agree that there's no clear cut 'this is what we're doing to replace it' being laid out there- I don't find it surprising they aren't giving us a blueprint. No company does. At least, I've never seen it.
I know things have been promised to change like the cults being updated, but then weren't and were abandoned and done away with. Rather lame imo, but even after all the complaints, they still went away. Eve the wardrobe update wasn't something we all knew about until a lot of testing was done. I simply don't think as heads of the company they are entitled to share every little bit of planning with us as a consumer. While we can say 'well then I'll take my business elsewhere!' the ultimatum is worth the risk to ignore when you're thinking of the whole group of users that are actually signed up on subeta, which is more than come online daily, many of which could care less about cws too.
I know it's not a perfect plan, but, all plans have to start somewhere. shrug
Oh, I totally agree that we need diversity and things need to be diverse for people in order to thrive. But if there's one thing that's true about anything, you can't please everyone all the time- so you do what you think is best and well... hope for the best. If it turns out to be the stupidest idea ever... well, then fix it. lol.
I understand. I do remember that whole thing, pretty clearly. It's like this every time something big is changed, people have concerns and some people get emotional about it. I understand and accept that it's part of our community. And I love our community, even the people I don't necessarily agree with and they think I'm a terrible bitch, even though I don't feel the same way about them. It's how I feel and I'm not going to hide it and keep quite just because it might upset someone. Subeta and staff needs to know how we all feel about something not just one group. I think It makes us diverse and I wouldn't trade our little piece of the internet for any other site.
It usually calms down after a couple of days when people have had time to think about it, process it and get all the tension out. I've seen Keith posting about a new layout (I think coming out) this year and I'm already imagining the whys and how could yous. We'll get through it we always do.
Heated conversations here. Many different views. I'm sure Subeta staff are taking note of our concerns.
Whew lots of people getting really mad over pixels in here. Scary.
Actually, I probably have seen nothing... I know nothing at all. Just ignore me... I'm sure it's easy to do. =P lol!
True, I have seen artists making threats too, which makes me scratch my head since I'm not sure I understand that. See, a couple years ago, something was changed and implemented... I think CS shops? Or... something I don't even remember now- but I got super upset over whatever it was at the time, got angry and went on 'strike'. I wasn't the only one, but I was a small minority of artists/sellers that did and several people complained about my behavior and how I was behaving being immature and elitist (as tho I was the only one that mattered) and only in retrospect do I agree with them. I was being stupid and short-sighted and I didn't stop to think of the future and I think that's what a lot of the complainers are doing now, both buyers and sellers & artists- just jumping the gun and not stopping to wait and be calm and see what happens.
In the end, like you said, it's really not the end of the world, only for those that take it like that. xD; BUT I think we'll all recover and perhaps next year we'll look back and realize just how silly we were all being. lol.
As I said before I agree with nearly everything your saying! We just need to wait and see! The threats aren't only from the buyers though, there are artists/comms threating to stop making cws as well.
We disagree on the forum part but thats such a small thing anyway, we all know about it anyway through friends or whatever.
Yes, I was discussing this with Beren (how she released something for friends of hers for Christmas, now she feels bad because others would like to have one, but it was limited just for them) but I think she made the right decision for herself there. I'm completely open and willing to accept other peoples ideas and hear there reasons, as long as they stay civil.
I'm not really sure everything being available would flood the market, first, if no one wants it now or it was hard to slot on then your not going to get a bunch of people buying it then pawing it when its available in the shop either, 2, people only have so much csc it's not like the site would suddenly be flooded with cws that no one wanted anymore, it would take time.
That being said over time I could see that it could have a negative effect, that's why I said that they would be retired for 3 years, thats plenty time for an item to pick up value, get deleted or become scarce (people leaving the site and leaving them on accounts). We'll never know how it would work out because no one is willing to try it, or maybe they would if everything else fails. Subeta takes a long time to do anything so if it did it be 20 years in could be 20 years in the future.
I don't know, I'm kinda excited about how this is all going to pan out. I also think people are forgetting that the pawn shop is staying open to sell and will be reopened during special events. It's not completely closing. I'm willing to give it a go and see what happens. It may work out better for all involved only time will tell!
Thank you! I've been trying to make those points and I feel like it's not being understood. Right now the only people the pawn helped were buyers. It hurt the market, it hurt sellers, and really it hurt a lot of buyers too because they couldn't get bven half of what they paid for something most times.
I forgot to mention in my re-listing of the things that are being worked on to be implemented that Keith is putting in place smaller initial batch requirements (6 instead of 10) and also discussing how to lower submission coats while not making it so the site loses out (because they do have to pay for the person who reviews the items). Lower submission coats means lower prices all around which will helpfully also boost the market back up.
climbs off soap box and goes back to sleeping off sickness don't mind me >>
(side note: I would love a comment box at the TOP of the page too... scrolling to the bottom is a pain esp when there's no pages like forums lol)
Preach, , preach. 👏
Putting my personal feelings aside, I think, based on what I know, that it would be detrimental to the site to force all items to be public and unlimited.
I know quite a lot of people who make items solely for themselves. They never slot, never sell a copy. The items are related to OCs, tributes to loved ones, etc. These people more than likely (because I can't speak for folks, but I can guess based on the fact that they keep their items to themselves) will not submit if they cannot keep the items private. That is lost revenue for the site. If they are not artists themselves, that is lost revenue for whoever they typically commission. In turn, because of lost income, you can infer that said artist will have less money to potentially spend here, which is more potential lost revenue for the site. And he's, there are a lot more releasers than those who keep to themselves entirely, but if you polled the people who are releasing, the likelihood of finding people who feel the way I feel is pretty high. So the likelihood (without feelings, which help drive our behavior and help us make decisions) of this negatively impacting the site on a grander sale is much higher than you seem to be willing to acknowledge.
If you want to continue to nitpick my word choices that's fine, but basic economics can tell you that flooding a market with items, including ones that may have had little to no interest to start, hurts the economy. Especially when one entity comepletely controls the price.
You know one thing I don't like seeing is how many people are making threats. They are saying that they won't or protentially won't be spending money on the site over this one thing. It's been stated that there are other options in the works, it's just not things that are currently available to be launched. In order to build something new, you have to tear down the old. The other thing I think people are not seeing or realizing, a lot of the cws in the pawn shops, are not that old. Not in comparison anyways. I have bought from the pawn shop myself, I'm like 'oh hey, there's that, cool grab' but I do realize that it was put in there at a loss to the person that initially bought it and the seller that tried to get it on site in the first place. The only one that benefited from the purchase, was me. In fact, I probably even saved 100 csc since the original release was probably 700. The reason I say I find it sad, is because it's essentially a threat. It's saying to staff you hate their descision (like when has that ever not been the case when something is removed or changed?) and that you will no longer support the site. If the site doens't get support, then it won't be able to make changes for the future. I don't think the cw market was ever implemented in order to keep the site afloat- but it brought more money in at a surprising rate, so that's why it's always changing and they're trying to find ways to benefit everyone. Taking away the pawn shop is only once step. THe thing I find ironic, is many ppl posting I don't remember seeing buy at the actual cw market (granted I don't stalk every thread), so the pawn shop was just easier for them to get a cw now and again- but unless you were buying a new item (mostly wigs, lets be honest) from there every day, spending upwards of 1-200$ a week to get said cws, you weren't doing much for the economy of the market place at all.
I just think it's short sighted to assume that this means there won't be something put in place that will lower the cost of cws for many a hopeful general buyer. It takes time, just have to be patient. Plus, you forget just how incredibly generous many a cw seller is. They /want/ to sell their items for lower than they cost- but in order to be able to actually keep making items, they have to sell them higher in order to make sure it's affordable for all involved. Essentially saying "Do it for the love of making cws" is telling the sellers to spend their own money to get an item on site just to benefit you, not them (even if you imply they should do it for them, many ppl still seem to be upset that they don't get to be apart of it and so are also desiring to be benefited when they put in no effort themselves to make said cw happen).
Also, I think the cw sellers forum is not a public forum for the same reason the minimod forum isn't public, If you're not involved in selling cws, why should you have input in how they are sold? If you are a buyer, feel free to suggest ways in which you think buying can be beneficial, but you have to keep in mind, the suggestions effects the seller, as they are the one providing it to you in the first place.
PHEW- I need to stop being so long-winded. lol.
Lol, We get it believe me we get it, NO ONE except the most clueless person thinks that cw's are lucrative. But you keep repeating the same thing where you think everyone is saying that cws are lucrative. We're not. I even put it in my post that it was "lucrative" in others than csc/money ways.
The ability to price in user shops is very exciting, I am definitely on board with that. Don't know much about the directory yet. But it's the shop idea has been my favourite so far, I think for a lot of us.
Actually I'm not insisting on anything, it was a suggestion, I can actually put my own feelings aside with things like this (the fact that personally I would like the site to control everything) has no bearing on the rest of my opinion, because I'm able to set that aside and say "Yeah, that's what I would like, but for the betterment of the site and all its people I could go along with this thing instead. That's what makes it different. It was a suggestion not some kind of written in stone, I'll only be happy if they do it my way thing.
I am very disappointed by this. I don't understand why anyone would complain about it, it gives everyone the hope of obtaining cws that are no longer available. it does not in any way effect the sale of the new cws. I certainly hope this is not just catering to a few site complainers...
[Quote] And last, being a buyer and seller though makes you tainted, in a good and a bad way. Good because you can see both sides and give knowledgeable ideas (I've seen you do this, in the comments section, remember when they first released the User Custom Shops? God, that was crazy. You were there helping people understand how they worked and trying to waylay peoples fears about it.) Bad because your more inclined to do what's in the seller part of yous best interest because it can potentially be more lucrative and not just in a csc way either.[/quote]
Okay but see, you keep repeating the same thing that I and others have explained as a misconception. There's no "more lucrative" because it isn't, in any way, lucrative now.
I'm not a corrupt politicians who is cackling from behind my desk about how everyone will be forced to buy direct if they want something. There is still a second hand market. People will still discount. People will still do some unlimited batches, cw shops are still a thing.
A directory is being worked on.
The ability to price r200 items in CSC in user shops is being worked on.
Easier access and databases are being worked on.
The pawn was detrimental. Controlling release 100% from Staff's end means we spend money to give them what basically amounts to unrelated boutique designs. That is not and never was the point of customs. That would be detrimental. There are actually threads already up in feedback and in suggestions & ideas where people can publicly spitball ideas that would help everyone, not just one side or the other (because your suggestion alienates the people who put the items on site whether you want to believe it or not - so your perspective is pretty tainted too when releasers are telling you that it would not work for them and you continue to insist the idea would be better regardless of the thoughts/feelings of the people it would impact).
Why in the hell are you closing that part of the pawn shop? Its the ONLY way I purchase CW's anymore. I spend my money on CSC and then purchase from the pawn shop. This will definitely put a huge dent in the amount of money I spend on this site in the future.
I think it will alienate buyers and drive them not to put money on the site. ie, I see a lot of releasers concerned and asking why their batches aren't filling. Do you think they're going to fill more now? With some releasers putting the blame on buyers. That's going to alienate people.
Who's this going to hurt? The buyers? No. I don't think they care, just more money for them to put elsewhere on some other site. Is it going to hurt the sellers? No. Because they'll just release to their friends.
Is it going to hurt Subeta? Yes. It is. Because the buyers aren't putting money on the site and the sellers are only releasing to friends. The whole thing gets worse than it is now. I think that Subeta is struggling a bit and could use a robust cw market. That isn't going to happen if you have a us vs them approach. I'm seeing a lot of this. Personally I see myself as in between, because while it annoys me a little that I won't be able to go in and browse around and find something neat in the pawn shop, meh, it isn't really that big of a deal to be honest. I'll find other places to spend my money. Or I'll hoard it and spend it when it opens up during special releases. ( I think some people skipped over that part)
It also states that once an item is on Subeta it belongs to them. Yes, they let the releaser do what they want with it, why wouldn't they? They have to keep people happy and releasing items. But they don't have to. They could just can the whole thing tomorrow and delete all the cws on the site, or officially make them official subeta items and release them in the shops. They won't though as long as they're making some money, but they could be making more, lots more. If they let the artists alter the base whatever way they want (without being perverse) , eyes, nose whatever I think they'd make A LOT more money.
I think it was a great idea to begin with, a few cws here and there for friends and maybe a little for everyone else if someone was feeling generous. But it's gone beyond that now to where people are leaving the site and just giving up making cws because there is just too much drama going on. The site is losing money because of it.
I'm not really asking in the news comments just casually talking to and having friendly discussion with people what might work, what might not work. It probably is better to hash it out in a dedicated thread. There would be more people to bounce ideas off of, but I was here and initially talking about the pawn shop, it's kinda morphed into a discussion about cw's in general.
I do think the cw discussion threads should be open to everyone, this affects everyone so we should all be talking about how best to implement new changes.
And last, being a buyer and seller though makes you tainted, in a good and a bad way. Good because you can see both sides and give knowledgeable ideas (I've seen you do this, in the comments section, remember when they first released the User Custom Shops? God, that was crazy. You were there helping people understand how they worked and trying to waylay peoples fears about it.) Bad because your more inclined to do what's in the seller part of yous best interest because it can potentially be more lucrative and not just in a csc way either.
I'll say it again, in the end whatever works for everyone is fine. It is what it is. I want Subeta to be a lucrative business, more money more cool things added. If they got rid of the cw part tomorrow I wouldn't mind. But I hope they don't because I'm excited to see where it can go given the opportunity.
Also, several people keep saying this so I'm going to address it.
The perception from buyers that releasers are making money is inaccurate. It is rare for us to make money on any release.
What we get back (what you all keep calling making money and profits) is a small fraction, typically, of what we put out to get an item made and on-site. I actually take a lot of offense to this idea that we are in the wrong over this, and despite a lot of releasers explaining that we do not make money, this wording and idea keeps getting perpetuated. You say "well the perception is..." and so we say, actually that's not true, here's why, and instead of using that to correct the perception and assumption, you continue to say it. And you toss in that we shouldn't expect to get back anything and why do we create if we don't want to make the item for ourselves.
Y'all can't have it both ways. Either we are making things we love at a loss (with any sales or slots merely mitigating some of the cost) or we're greedy monsters releasing to get rich (in site currency). I mean, the first is true, but it seems like the truth doesn't fit with the narrative y'all want to create here.
(this is not directed to any individual person, but at all of the numerous comments made on this thread)
I think that it will alienate releasers and drive us from the site. Better wording for you? Because I know it will drive me away. I'm super glad you think it's blackmail.that I expect the site to follow the agreement they set forth in the contract I agree to when I submit my item, as clearly spelled out on the submission page (I'm going to bold the pertinent part for you):
You can see the agreement made between the site and the customers (visible to anyone who visits the page) clear as day right on the Custom Clothing page.
So, since that is the agreement we all operate under, what gives them the right to dictate what we do with the items?
As for suggestions, there are a lot of things being implemented based on suggestions from the community, I listed them out in another post because they happen to be on a thread for people who've submitted an item already (still not sure why it's restricted, not up to me, up to staff). It's also possible to make a thread in the suggestions forum or the feedback forum. Asking in news isn't likely to get you enough responses to start forming a concensus on anything.
Also, your note that there are 30 releasers and 2k buyers, while being strange numbers to pull out of a hat to begin with, seems to negate the fact that most releasers are also buyers. We buy things too. I am just as much of a consumer as I am releaser/seller - more so probably. So I am coming at it from both perspectives. I don't want the site to tell someone they have to sell to me because it's more fair and then my feelings don't get hurt. It's their item, if they don't want me to have it for whatever reason, then I can act like an adult and accept that.
See that's where it gets murky. I would still love to see everything unlimited and in the cash shop. But I also see where you're coming from, that's why I wanted to discuss and brainstorm options with people. I kinda regret getting involved in cws sometimes because of the drama but I also would never take any of it back because there are some seriously great people out there that I've had the pleasure to interact with, both buyers and sellers.
I am not into CWs for a long time (less then a year - actually) But that would definetly be something I do not wish for.
I felt really bad around last lumi - but I had comissioned a special CW just for friends - to gift to them. I did not slot any places - meaning I paid the artist (which did an amazing job) and both of the batches myself. I put that CW under the trees of people who I've come to know/like a lot during the last year here at subeta. People who have been a great help / were nice and funny to talk with. I would not call the CW private. I call it "special" and if anybody wants to trade it away - I am fine with that.
BUT I would not want it to be unlimited. I wanted something special - and I got that.
I actually felt bad as people satrted asking about the item and I had to twll them it's supposed to be a gift for friends. I feel bad if I see it sit on a WL. I had a second when I considered maybe doing a recolor - but then.... No... It would not feel right.
As said - I am not calling it private. And I would not be offended if anyone would not like it and sell/trade their copy.
But I am glad I had the choice of just getting the 20 copies and not a single one more.
As a buyer - yes I've been on the missing out end, also. It's a "oh well anothe rone for my WL" feeling. But this is still a game. And I try very hard not to be to bothered by things on here - since this is a place I ant to go and forget about RL problems
evil grin
Yes! Everything you just said, is how I feel. No one knows how this is going to work. It might work for the better, it might be scrapped totally and my own lovely idea may get implemented (haha) we just don't know. I'm more than willing to give it a go. But if it doesn't work out I hope that something else will be done, not just leave it to fester like this whole mess that got us here.
And yes, there are a few people I refuse to buy things from. And I never will again short of them apologising and actually meaning it, two of those artists are long gone, frozen or just left. The other one (I think) is still here but doesn't release anymore to my knowledge and nothing they said would ever let me forgive them. They said and did the nastiest stuff not just to buyers but to other artitsts/comms.
I can tell you that it has to be something pretty bad, because I'm a pretty laid back, meh, kinda person.
Just don't let it get to you, it was sounding like it was for a minute. People can and will say crap on the internet because they don't think it affects people, but it can and it does. Lol, I'm not sure it's a good place to go to escape real life disasters, might just make it worse?
And of course, as I said below, I've seen people get nasty when slotting on things before. I kinda do one of those wide-eyed- wandering eye, crazy looks when someones doing something embarrassing and you don't know how to react looks. Back away slowly kinda thing.
Wow, this has gotten HUGE!
I love you right not. xD I hate hate hate going onto any site that just has a bunch of people being rude, complaining and overall being nasty rude people just for the sake of complaining. It's stupid overall and a definite waste of time. Every time I feel like going to see what ppl are complaining about, I'm like 'nope, stupid idea'. While I totally get your reasons behind your idea, I think the thing that ppl are focusing on is the fact that you stated it would be 'forced' and as humans, we don't like anyhthing to be forced upon us, no matter if in the end, it's for the best. Even as children, we hate control, we test our limits and push boundaries, and this never goes away as adults. When faced with a suggestion of someone saying "the control will be taken from you" instead of seeing it as saying 'so you don't have to worry as much' they see it as a threat and suddenly, people will cling to what they feel is their right, which in the end it is. Your intention is good, so don't fret, but if something like that were to be instituted, it would def need a lot of refining. I think for now, it's just one step at a time, see where this goes, what comes next and we can all go from there. =)
I've often worried that my past mistakes have created a blockage for people desiring to buy from me. I've done things, I've said things in the past that have been 'in the moment' and have been stupid. I didn't think, I just reacted and after I feel idiotic afterwards for doing it. The internet is forever, I can't erase it, I can only fix it... but not everyone will accept. Or, I think I'm sounding courteous or just making a statement that someone finds highly offensive, when that wasn't my intent (tho truth be told, it's your own choice to be offended, I can't make you feel any way you do not wish to feel). But with that in mind, I think a lot of people in general can hold grudges and after awhile, you forget even why you are mad. If more people would let go of reasons they had to be mad in the first place, they wouldn't refuse to buy from someone that did something stupid 3 years ago. I for one, am sorry if anyone has ever felt offended of upset by what I've said, as it was never my intent to be rude or insulting and I know, people can change and can get better.
I think we all need to just- step back, take a breath and let things be. For the sake of sanity (as was stated before ^^) especially.
Aww.... This was the best way for me to buy hand me downs at a reasonable price. :(