Eh, I didn't suggest everything being unlimited because people missed out on items. I'm suggesting it because there is so much drama related around cws that I figure it would be easier in the long run for everyone, no more artists/comms having to put up with nasty people and their shit fits, no more people losing slots because their afraid of posting on the forums, all in all happy people. The artists/comms make more money so they can afford to put what they want onsite, buyers being able to get the stuff they'd like. I think it's a great compromise. I'd love to hear other suggestions, especially from artists/comms who know the system from the other side. But something that isn't all about sellers but something that benefits both sellers and buyers.
I'm all open and more than willing to hear lots of ideas, for real!
Also, I'm assuming by the "other site" you mean the Subeta drama one? where people post complaints? Why do you even go there? You know that site is full to the brim of entitled assholes and people with grudges. Thatt place should be avoided at all costs, it isn't worth your sanity. I'll say the same to you that I said below, give the assholes the finger and embrace the rest. What more can you do?
And your suggestion that EVERYTHING be made unlimited, and made retroactive IS saying you should be entitled to every release...
I clearly said your suggestion along with insults and nasty things from others on the news post, I didn't say YOU insulted anyone, I said your SUGGESTION that we shouldn't be able to control our releases was insulting.
I have had many interactions with you that have been pleasant, you are right, but after seeing your suggestion that we shouldn't have any control over our own releases I am hurt, and seeing my friends being attacked here and on that vile website has pushed me to the brink.
I'm sorry if you think I'm nasty and rude, but I am so disgusted at how many nasty posts there have been on this news post. Your suggestion is the only thing I have a problem with from you directly, but the other stuff I said still stands. No one should be able to tell any of us how to release our items, and no one, buyers, commissioners, or artists alike are entitled to every item that's been released. No they should NOT all be unlimited and given to everyone just because some people are mad they missed out.
Excuse me? Where have I been ranting and complaining about not getting something I want? No where. You can go back and reread my posts here, I've been offering suggestions that might make things easier for all involved, trying to go back and forth with some artists/comms to see if we could come up with something. If they don't get implemented shrugs that's fine too. It's only a suggestion. I'm not really concerned either way. Do I like that the pawn shop is closing? No, I don't but I'm not making some huge deal about it either. It is what it is. You however were a bit nasty in that post you just pinged me to and honestly I thought you were better than that, our interactions on site, there have been many, have always been pleasant.
If you thought I was being nasty or are typing this with some kind of anger you are wrong.
I don't mean you being friends with people just for the sake of CWs! More like...someone may know you want something and hold a slot for you, or be more likely to trade an item they still have some attachment to because you know them when they wouldn't otherwise be inclined to part with it just yet, or they click on your topics or check your WL more often because they know you. Not taking advantage of people or being two-faced, but rather being part of a community and getting the respect and leeway thereof.
Honestly if staff started dictating what happened with items I paid for and put on site, I agree with I'd never spend another cent on subeta and never release another item.
Yes or sucks to miss an item, I've missed tons I would've liked to own, but I'm not entitled to own any of them, like you and many others seem to think buyers should be.
Yes there are releasers who have been less than courteous, same with artists but buyers are just as nasty at times so trying to punish commissioners/artists because of a few bad apples and making us have NO control over items we release is honestly the most ignorant idea I've heard.
Just because people can't afford to buy CWs/miss slots/can't get privates doesn't mean subeta should jump in and make those items available for everyone, that's ridiculous.
I've made my fair share of private items for my friends for my own reasons. I don't have to offer items publicly, but I try to whenever I can to be fair to everyone however reading your suggestions and many others rants on here really makes me wonder why any of us commissioners should offer anything publicly after the non stop insults from so many of you over the pawn shop closing.
We aren't getting rich from CWs, and we choose to spend our money on Subeta. Who are any of you to decide how the money we spend commissioning items should be used, or how our items we commissioned should be released?
If you don't wanna spend money releasing items or buying CWs from users shops that is your choice, no one is forcing you. How I spend my money and release my items is my choice and you have no right at all to tell me how to release my items or even suggest that subeta should take over for all of us commissioners and force us to make everything unlimited so you buyers can get everything you want.
Life isn't always fair, you can't always get what you want and honestly? After seeing your sugggestion and many of the insults in this news post, I'm disgusted and lowt respect for many people I once thought were nice, because the vitriol and insults the releasers, commissioners and artists have been subjected to because of a choice Keith made to try and better the CW community.
Every single artist who is active right now has tried to help new artists get into the scene. Cathii alone has done so much to encourage the community, and make things easier for new artists. So many other artists are always doing sales to try and make things more affordable everyone. Violin and other artists have even done free commission giveaways to get things to people who can't afford many commissions.
I didn't ask you if you agreed, I asked you what you thought.
I saw that item in the pawn shop once and almost bought it. I would have slotted on it if it was public because its neat. This isn't just about privates though, it's about all cws onsite.
Why should you get to dictate what happens to your items once they go on site? They're no longer yours they belong to Subeta you're only paying for the privilege to get them on the site not so that you can then have complete and total control of them forever and ever.
And here in lies the problem, when artists/comms threaten to stop releasing items they're hurting themselves. You're essentially blackmailing Keith, You're saying "if you don't do it this way we'll stop releasing things and you'll lose money" and then you've got the buyers on the other side saying "if you don't do what we want then we'll stop buying and you'll lose money" so which one is going to lose out in the end the 30 or so releasers or the 2000 buyers? Both. Both are going to lose out.
That's why there should be compromises, to keep everyone happy.
I mean, how many people want a copy of my ?
The answer is, only people who got the joke and were offered a copy to begin with (I have a spare that someone ended up not being able to use). It's an item I made for my friends because of an inside joke.
The private OC makeup I made was more popular, so I commissioned a slightly altered version (released in all the same colors) that was public and made it unlimited. Why should you also get the ones made for me? Is it not enough to offer almost all my things publicly?
And as a buyer, I fully understand when someone tells me "this was for friends" or "this was restricted for x reason". I'm like...Okay cool, thanks for letting me know! I'm polite when I ask and put out there that I understand if an item isn't being publicly released when I ask about an item and I have never received a rude response from a releaser yet.
I'm never going to agree to the site dictating control over items I pay to have made, and I doubt anyone else would either. At that point they may as well go directly to artists and hire them as site staff.
My personal privates don't affect anyone, I should be allowed to make things for myself and my friends if I want. Anyone on the site has the same capabilities. The drama surrounding privates was mostly releasers being harassed by people who didn't get them, which led them to stop releasing. So the punishment for that should be to force them to never be allowed to make a gift?
The entire concept of CWS was to make and release things for yourself and your friends. They didn't expect or intend for it to create a new market, but everyone got excited for custom wearables and decided to share it out.
@Cresenta Likewise! You're most welcome and thank you too! This does affect me because I buy a lot from the pawn shop but I am trying to put any emotions I have aside and see both sides. Who knows hows it's going to work out. I don't like it now but maybe this will lead to something else even better. As long as us buyers are being thought of and not just "oh they'll just deal with it, were only interested in what artist/comms want" kind of thing.
I think that perception is really skewed. I've been here for awhile so I have older things I slotted on, sure. I've also spent a lot trying to buy thinga I wanted. I don't trade privates unless the releaser is long gone with no recourse for me to sell back to them, and then I try to trade rather than sell at a markup. But also, I have a list of things I just cannot get, no matter how much I hunt. Not even necessarily privates, but public things with multiple batches. I have just as much trouble finding the things I want as anyone else. I've had to pass on getting a lot of them because I can't afford what someone wants or don't have the items they're seeking in trade, just like everyone else.
Like, I'm really not big in the scene or market, y'all just see me a lot because I slot on a lot of things. And when I sell from my collection, it's to gather the funds to direct all the crap I can't get slotted to a full batch.
And my friendships with folks really do not hinge on cws. I miss slots on stuff released by friends all the time, especially when it's single batch, because I don't expect or demand that our friendship be determined by whether or not they let me have their things (and I'm sure you didn't mean the comment to imply that my friendship got me access, I just want to clarify for anyone who thinks it does). I don't care if I can never slot on another thing release by friends, we're friends for reasons that have nothing to do with cws beyond the fact that we possibly met through them. A lot of my friends are folks I'd see around the board's who I talked to one day because we liked similar things, or who talked to me for the same reason. I really wish there wasn't this weird divide where people who don't release CWS assume that anyone who does isn't a buyer themselves and is some cw billionaire sitting on their mountaintop looking down at customers. There are bad apples in both groups, but there are also a lot of people who are part of both groups.
@Cresenta I think so, too. I mean if something is unlimited in a shop, why not? do we really need 10 copies in the pawn shop? That and I'd like to delete some extras of my own items. I mean if it was someone else's limited release, I'd ask first? but I still think it'd be a nice option to have ^o^
Maybe let the artists/comms have a limited amount of control (basically the 6 month-3 year thing I mentioned below) but maybe make it so it isn't retroactive for active members of the site, so you would know that from now on there would no longer be any privates but you'd get to keep the ones private that have already been put on the site and they wouldn't go into the shop, everything else would. Except artists/comms that are frozen or that have had their accounts cleared those items (including any old privates) would be placed in an official cw shop that was run by Subeta? What do you think? I'm trying to throw out a compromise. It can't be just what the artists/comms want because then there would be no buyers and likewise it can't just be what buyers want because then the artists/comms stop producing. There has to be something or everyone is going to lose.
I'm really disappointed by this. :( I really hope it comes back for plenty of special events because I really enjoyed browsing the CWs in the Pawn Shop and getting a good deal on some.
Just have to say, it's really nice to talk to someone in the news comments and have a civil conversation without name-calling. Thank you SO much! ;_; <3
@Cresenta I understand completely, it sours us buyers too but the other way around! There is always going to be nasty people but you've just got to give them the finger and embrace the rest. So good for you and thank you for doing essentially just that! ❤
I don't know if you've ventured into my shop ever, but I actually have released a large number of things directly without limit. Anytime I think something can be functionally useful. It's unrealistic, however, to assume that non artist releasers can pay for art and then pay to direct to shop every commission they have. And people containing that they couldn't get X items because they was one batch and mostly full by the time public groups were ping is what I was addressing. If I spend small fortunes getting things done and then people don't slot when I offer it, how am I wrong to just offer it to people who are my friends instead (with no restrictions). Why make it unlimited if people supposedly didn't want it in the first place?
I get that you didn't mean it to be personal, but it feels personal when people are saying that we're being greedy and making money. I know you've said we're not making big bucks but it comes off that way, except that we aren't actually making any money. When you put out $70 and get back $5, that isn't making money. And again, I don't care if I don't make it back, because it isn't about that, but it's frustrating and hurtful to have people act like the fact that I might get back $5-10 out of every $50+ that I spend makes me greedy. I understand you don't think that, but the perception and the way people act because of it is pretty shitty.
And limiting batches and releasing first to friends I guess can be seen as punishment except it's not. It's more of a, 'whats the point in trying to release more than one batch when people aren't slotting anyhow?' and then we get bitched at by people who are mad they missed an item. It's pretty much a lose/lose. Set something as two batches? Can't fill one. Set something as one batch? Get yelled at and criticized for not making it more so everyone can have a copy. I mean...Where's the middle ground here?
Also I'm sorry if I implied you were doing the things, I meant you in the general sense but it was late and I didn't better clarify.
Happy to share the things that were on that board, I really hope they work better than the pawn did honestly. And also thank you for being civil in the discussion! It's nice and sadly refreshing to not have it devolve into insults and name-calling.
The thing is, I'm a buyer too. I've experienced all of the things you've mentioned. I can tell you that the biggest decline in people making/releasing/buying CW's came after the CW Pawn started to devalue items that had sat there for awhile.
I've acknowledged that there are other factors that play into whether or not to slot on a given thing.
Also I wholeheartedly disagree with forcing everything direct to shop unlimited with one set price, and I'm sure the vast majority of people would as well. If you tell someone that they have to release this your way or no way, they're all going to leave. I paid for the art, it's up to me how to release it. I have items I created as gifts that I never sold (and have not restricted what they can do with), I don't want to be forced to put them into a shop. I'll never give this site another cent of my money for anything if I was forced to do so. And I know I wouldn't be the only one.
I get where you're coming from on that, but you don't necessarily have a way to predict that, and as soon as you publicly say what limit is, you're bound to follow that. You can't say "this will be 1 batch" and then change it because more people want it than anticipated. Subeta will ring you for scamming. If they stated anywhere that other folks could see that this item and all of its recolors would be a single batch, whether you or I saw the post or not, they [I]have[/I] to adhere to that.
And the trouble I've come across is that, if I say something will have batches determined by interest, I have more trouble filling slots. As soon as I switch to saying, okay interest was low, one batch, I get more people suddenly wanting it (not always and not for everything, but this happens with enough frequency that it's almost not worth it to make anything more than 1 batch, which is likely what led to a lot of folks deciding to only do single batch items - why bother aiming for more if it means you won't be able to fill a single batch with regularity).
You're absolutely right and that's why I have not stopped releasing public items no matter how mad I've gotten. Because I don't want to punish everyone for 1 jerk but when you deal with that 1 jerk well, it sure sours your desire to release things for a while. ;_;
@Cresenta I know! I see it on the boards sometimes if I'm slotting. There are people who are rude, we've all seen them. The ones that go apeshit if they miss a slot and the things that are said on the forum/board is astounding, it isn't hard to imagine what they would say in comments or smail without an audience. But you can't lump everyone in the same group. You can't limit items just because a couple of people are jerks. There are CW Artists/sellers/comms that I refuse to buy from just because I saw them being rude to someone with no provocation or to myself. I stay away from them but that doesn't mean I just stop buying from all the others just because that one was a jerk. : )
An option to delete CWs for CSC would be really, really convenient imo.
But it's also easier for you and other CW makers who've been here a while and built up the collections and the friendships to trade for the things you want, or trade your private releases. So at least from the outside, it looks like you've got way more options (I am thinking 's term of 'prommie' might be short for prominent). The rest of us are left way more out in the cold and, while I understand why people are doing the one-batch thing, it's this snowballing problem that hurts more than the people not slotting and trying to cheap you on your extras (which is absolutely repellent of them, by the way, who DOES that?)
I am pretty much considering leaving ping groups and not buying anything for the near future, because it's gotten that frustrating with two recent things right on top of each other and it just feels so hopeless. And the buy/sell forum is pretty much useless to me as an alternative, because I never get responses (even though someone else will try for the exact same item while my topic is still on the page, and get a response within a day).
That's why some people preferred the Pawn Shop; I know I'm not alone in these difficulties, in being awkward with people or too honest or harsh, or not having the best tracking on when something's being released, and it was amazing having an option that didn't remind me of things I couldn't get in tracking through previous items. Instead it's pages and pages of possibles, right there! A click away!
I am with you, releasing CWs is not about the profit. But buying them isn't about fun anymore, either. I really hope we get those r200 shops Keith mentioned.
I can see your reasoning there and it makes sense. :) But as a releaser I have actually been attacked TWICE for my public items. Legit someone making fun of my release and that made me want to just do only friend releases because I can trust them not to say something like that. :( It sucks but toxic people are everywhere. I've seen releasers blacklist buyers A LOT for attacking them for PUBLIC items if they didn't get there in time to slot on them. As a releaser, I like to have some kind of limit on my items whether it's 1-3 batches because sadly when an item is unlimited, most people pass over it for limited items. I've seen this many times. :(
See now privates have never bothered me too much, I've never been attracted to them just for their status the way some people are. I don't think I have any privates, a couple "please, only sell to group members" things but even if I had privates I wouldn't know it because I get a lot of stuff from the pawn shop.
For me, the reason I want to do away with them is because, exactly what I said below, we've lost a lot of good artists and frequent buyers over them and it just isn't worth it to me. The cw market would be busier if half the really good people hadn't gone away or stopped buying because of the drama associated with them.
If that's directed at me, I'm ok with it. It's your money and you're free to spend it how you want. if you don't want to slot on my items, it's your choice and that's perfectly A-ok. ^_^ I release items I want onsite, so it may take me longer to do it without some people slotting but if I care enough, I'll pay to get onsite. When you dish out 1-10k to commish an item, you can managed another 5k to get it onsite if you want it bad enough.
Well see you can keep your privates and this just proves I will not slot on any more batches period! So please don't complain that you can't fill batches when you need us on your terms.
I'm probably going to get attacked for this but I'm not understanding all the salt towards private releases. Fact is, there will always be things that you can't have whether it's because it's "friends only" or it had 1-2 limited batches, or maybe even you were offline for a month for something irl and missed an item that had 5 BATCHES that all filled somehow. We're always going to have things we wished we could have but missed out on. I know -I- have privates on my WLs that I'll never own, but that's ok with me because I also know there are loads of beautiful cws available that I will get to own.
People sometimes want to release things just for their friends, for their birthdays or other special things that only their friends would get the significance of and I don't see the harm in that. Personally I have private items and I do my very best to balance my releases. So if I do a private, the next one is almost always public. Thing is, a person either draws the CW themselves or pays someone to have it done -- and that's expensive. So I don't understand why the person who pays for the item is judged so badly for wanting to only share it with a select few once in a while if they feel like it. It's like when you buy something from the store irl, are you obligated to share with everyone and if you don't you're "an elitist" or "a horrible person"??? Little unfair imo.
Just my two cents. -_-
tbh i don't really have an opinion on the pawn shop since the items i want will never end up there, lbh but in regards to this so many times, there have been items that i've been publicly pinged for, and literally like, 10+ people are asking for slots but the batch was already way past filled. so it's not all "can't fill a batch" because there are SO MANY highly desired items that are being kept at one batch for ?????? idk what reason (to up their value maybe, since that's really what it ends up doing) yes, there are items that don't fill, but ffs there are definitely items people want, and the releasers know it, and they are still limited batches. like i have no issue limiting batch numbers if you are struggling to fill slots, but THERE ARE ITEMS WE CAN ALL THINK OF AND ARE LIKE "WHY WAS THAT ONLY ONE BATCH?????????" and no one can say "oh it wasn't filling"
that is all just my two cents
Doe has stated exactly how I feel as a buyer. I could not have stated my concerns and feelings any better, thank you
Reaper, the thing is, you are looking at this from a sellers/creators perspective, you've explained to everyone exactly how you feel. Most of us completely understand that artists/comms don't make "big bucks". We all understand that and everything that goes with it, because you've all explained it a million times.
What we want you to do, is to understand how we feel as buyers and potential buyers. But instead of looking at our (the buyers) perspective and saying "Okay, yeah. I understand how you could feel that way" you're basically pointing your finger at us and accusing buyers of being the cause of this. Not exactly a great thing to do because it could turn off even more people to buying.
Please don't get stuck on the, "everyone wants it for 300 csc or they don't want to slot on this now, but is happy to buy it at full price later" thing. Maybe that's what it is for a handful of people. But maybe, just maybe there are other reasons.
I'll give you a few:
1: Someone likes the item but doesn't have the csc/money to slot on that item just then. 2. There is another item that may take priority over yours. (something gets approved but not released, a buyer holds on to their money in case that item is released instead. 3. An item that costs 4000 csc to get on site (meaning slots should be no more than 500-550 csc) are being slotted at 700 csc. 4. The item is ugly/not drawn well/shading is off. 5. Nitch markets (tv shows, celebrity,movie, anime stuff) 6. There's something too similar on site (officially) already. Or there is the likely hood of it becoming an official item. 7. The artist/comm releases mostly privates. 8. The artist/com treats their "public" buyers like shit. Is rude and doesn't reply to genuine/innocent questions. a. Because they've dealt with a couple assholes, they think all buyers are like that. 9. People don't like posting on the forums. 10. A person has been blocked by the artist/comm.
I could go on, I'm sure there are others who could come up with more as well. As I said before as a buyer, I'm not going to be paying 600-700 for an item if I don't think it's worth that much. I'm more than happy to pay that if I really like the item. Items on Subeta lose their worth, this is true with cw's as well. I've paid 100 million for something before only for it to be worth less than 50,000 sP now. What is Subeta doing or going to do help me start making my money back from things like that? Nothing. And they never will. Cash is king and all that.
Personally, I think that Subeta needs to take an official stand on privates and ban them completely. They've been the cause of a lot of good artists (and buyers) leaving the site or giving up completely, everything should be submitted as unlimited and immediately placed in cs shops for 500 csc (this should also be retroactive). No more, no less. When someone buys an item, the site gets 250 and the artist/comm gets 250. (this is only fair as Subeta has already got their money from the submission process.) (actually the artist should get 300 and the site should get 200). The cs owners could choose one of two options: to semi-retire items after 6 months and bring them back 6 months later or they could choose to retire after 1 year and then bring them back in three years. This would all be automatic the cs owners would only get two choices they would have no say and have no control after that. That way if they left the site or got frozen the items would still be available eventually. This would be enough time for someone to say I better get it now or I may not get for a long time if at all, also giving them time to get the csc up to buy the items.
Posting this, I know I can come off as assholish, but I want the Cw artists and releasers and sellers I've personally dealt with to know that I've had an overall happy experience and the vast VAST majority of them that I've had the pleasure of slotting with (you included Reaper) have been a lovely, easy and rewarding to deal with. There are bad apples in ever bunch artists and buyers alike.
This is only my opinion, there are tons more out there, from artists, to commissioners, to the staff, to the buyers that all have their own perspectives and experiences. We have to be open to all of them and come up with some thing that is going to benefit ALL of us, right now it seems this is only benefiting the sellers and the staff. Maybe thats why the buyers are feeling just a little bit bitter and left out. Maybe this will work out for us buyers too, only time will tell.
In the end, it is what it is.
, we will just have to agree to disagree on some things (mostly, because writing up all this stuff takes a lot of time and I don't have the time nor energy for it, though I do thank you for discussing it with me). I've seen what I've seen and experienced what I've experienced and you've seen and experienced what you have. We've seen different sides and some of the same, but we are probably just not going to fully agree on everything, so no sense steadily arguing those points.
Again, I don't think you're greedy, I said that that is the air that artist and CW makers put out. Though many say they are not making profit, which I doubt they are making big bucks from it (Subeta is the one, mostly through CSC sales for people to buy CWs, making the money), it does seem to be a sore spot, which make others think that IS the main issue, so in turn, they think you (general you, not you, personally) are greedy. Again, I'm hoping this is fixed by Subeta lowering the price, so people won't refuse to slot for items. It's why I loved buying CWs; it supported artists and got some awesome new items on site. Shoot, CWs were the reason we finally got some new shoe styles on the site, so I will never say a bad thing about CWs overall. Haha. I've also never done the wait until something got to a low point in the pawn shop or ask someone to lower their prices. It just wasn't an issue when I was really into buying CWs. Obviously that has changed and, again, I think that is a result of the price going down in the pawn shop. Something that should have never been instituted because of what would eventually happen. Who would pay 500 CSC when they know something will possibly be 300 CSC in a few weeks? Subeta had to have seen that coming. That could easily be fixed, though, and keep the pawn shop open, but the new stores sound better and can, hopefully, make most happy. I've also never cried and whined over a CW price or not getting a discount ever, so I'm not the bunch you need to direct that to. I'll happy pay a reasonable price for a CW, but yeah, no one is going to pay what they don't think it's worth and I (they) don't. Otherwise, I'd have a lot more CWs than I do. However, I realize, for people who might have 500 CSC sitting around, that CWs are expensive compared to being able to buy multiple pieces out of the Boutique for the same price as a slot. Subeta needs to make prices more on par with similar things on the site. Plus, and this is just me here, how did the item get into the pawn shop in the first place? If it's not there, it can't even be bought at a cheaper price. This is something that should have been addressed by staff. They can't do much about art, but they can make guarantees with CWs, since it's basically buying the rights to a design and that design is the property of Agoge once it's been submitted and approved. You shouldn't be able to pawn something until you have presented it to the seller, a reasonable time frame passes where they could say if they wanted it back, willing to pay that person the slot price, or not (maybe two weeks), then if it was not wanted, the buyer could pawn it. A little more work, but it would have helped matters. The CW pawn shop just could have been handled so much better, in my opinion.
And artists and CW makers deciding to just make things private to combat people waiting to buy from the pawn shop or because they ask for discounts, doesn't help matters, either. In fact, it just pushes people to the pawn shop more. Yeah, it would annoy me, too, if people came and said, "give me an item for this price because it'll end up in the pawn shop and I can just get it later." I'd be like, "tough cookies, it's not in there now, might not ever get in there, so why would you even ask something stupid like that?", but that's just me. I also wouldn't think to ask someone that because it would be an obvious no. Punishing more for a few seems a bit misguided, though not my place to judge; you do what you think is right. If the private market is bigger, well, then you can't really blame others for just waiting or giving up and not buying anything. Just don't sell to those dumb enough to want people to give a discount when they could have slotted. Of course, I'm from when you got slotted or you missed out, plain and simple, because there was no CW pawn shop then. If you, somehow, found someone selling it, you were lucky! So, again, I don't care if the pawn shop is gone, but you really can't blame users for that. Subeta instituted what happens in the pawn shop and made things get devalued. I just hate that people are calling others entitled when they were just going along with the system the site set in place and no one is ever happy when things get taken away, so the fallout was inevitable.
And no worries about the Prommie thing. Either you were not around for that whole drama or you stayed away from it. Believe me, it was a huge mess. Elite to the extreme and the staff fully went along with it for a long time. Not Subeta's best time.
And again, I didn't say artist or CW makers are making big bucks. However, artists can make a selling board, I did not mean for CWs to clarify, to sell their art and get cash/CSC/sP from that. They have an ability to make big bucks, so people who feel like they don't have much wouldn't want to support ways for them to get more money (or so it seems, like I said above), because they will see it as being greedy. No need to explain math behind it. As I said, that is what it seems like and the air it gives. You may not be doing it for big money, that is a Subeta thing with why submitting costs as much as it does, but again, it gives off the air that that is what is going on. And people are always going to want and look for discounts and may not buy your item for it, which is why I've been saying, do it purely for you because lots of things that come along with making CWs are a headache and a risk when you can't fill slots, so you end up losing money, so if it's not purely for wanting your item, it's going to be expensive, frustrating, and disappointing. If you're not up for that, then my advice is do not make CWs. You seem to be taking that very personally, when it was not meant to be, which is why I didn't ping you to my other comment. I mean, I've seen you around the forums, but I don't even know you or your selling methods to be getting personal with you, so that's why it came off as a weird attack to me, in the first place. o.O
And thanks again for a better run down of what is expected to come along. Especially that database because it is needed. I don't like sifting through my wardobe to find a CW, so that'll make things so much easier. I know you have no power over the forum or the costs of submitting CWs. I'm more hoping that Keith and staff see it because these are genuine questions that need complete answers in a completely public place, like the news, because some people don't even go to the forums much, but still buy CWs from pawn/trade/auction and need to know what's happening and the new changes. And I could have sworn people have asked for smaller submission batches for a while, so I'm glad that is finally being discussed. I just hope these changes really do benefit all involved because CWs were a great idea, but they have kind of been a roller-coaster to watch and full of drama, when they didn't start out that way. It used to just be fun, now it's way too serious.
"People want to know why things are getting released to friends only and having maybe 1-2 slots left when pinged for the public? The fact that otherwise we can't fill a batch. You want to know why Privates are bigger now than they ever were? Same reason."
I dont understand this at all. Most of the CWs i submit are for myself, and i pay the 1.6k CSC to submit them to my shop. I then price them in my shop for maybe 100-200CSC more than the base price so that if i do ever sell a copy, i make a little back. Most of my CWs will never make back what i paid to submit them, but i dont care about making the money back/making a profit, i care about having that item to wear on site and if someone else likes that item then that makes me happy and thats it.
If you don think that your CW will fill a batch then why not just submit it to a shop and let people buy from there? It saves having to wait weeks/months for the batch to fill before it gets on to the site and it gives everyone that wants a copy the option to buy. If you only sell 2 copies then thats fine, you wouldnt have been able to fill a batch if youd done it the other way but you still get the CW on site. If it sells 20 copies then congrats, you made a popular CW! I guess people dont do it that way because 'omg what if people flood the market with my precious CW and it becomes worthless' because heaven forbid that you sell lots of copies and make back what you spent/make a profit only to have those items resell for a mere 300CSC.
On a completely different note, what ive never understood either is how people are all 'im going to submit this gorgeous CW in blonde/brown/black for me and my friends but the public versions will be pink and aqua' :/ Like surely youre going to sell more of the natural colours than the obscure colours right? I have so many private CWs on my WL that had gorgeous initial colours but were publicly released in obscure colours that id never wear.
I made the mistake of making a private CW many years ago and have regretted it since. Quite a few people have wanted it since and all the time i wish i could go back and change it as i feel terrible for restricting it and not letting more people get a copy. I learned from that and i dont understand how more people dont feel bad for basically saying 'hahaha youre not my friend so you cant have a copy' as i know i feel awful after just that one time many years ago.
Why oh why is this happening? I bought most of my CWs at the pawn shop and this is going to impact my enjoyment of Subeta in a really pretty negative way. Quite sad.
Oh man, missing the things I really want makes me the saddest, but as someone who's getting frustrated trying to fill batches, I understand why they're doing a single batch and asking their friends first. I get it 100% (and I get that people do try to slot/support on items they want, there's a lot of lovely folks out there claiming on a variety of things and that is great).
Same for folks with social aversions and anxieties. Sometimes being active on the boards is rough, and that's fine. I don't think that's always the case (as are none of the other things I've brought up of course). There are definitely a lot of factors that go into it, but I do think the Pawn had a negative impact, especially with the decreasing value thing they put in (it was a thing that got tried and just didn't work like hoped I don't think).
I have nobody blocked at all, so there's no chance (for me at least) on that end. I've never had an interaction with someone that was so bad that I felt I needed to block them (which is good for me!), even when disagreeing with folks I have not yet ever felt the need to block.
So, I'm going to try to explain once more before I give up, because you're missing the point. I KNOW NOT ALL CWS WILL BE POPULAR ENOUGH TO FILL A BATCH. I am fully aware of that. The issue, however, is not that people don't want them, it's that they are not willing to slot on things if they can feel reasonably secure in the knowledge that they can wait and buy it secondhand for less.
However, what that means for people releasing (who have already spent a fair amount getting an item made most of the time), is that they now have to put out even more of their money to get the item on site (which yes, is a risk you sign up for when getting an item made). At that point, people will go buy it from their shops or secondhand or pawn. Nobody is saying "hey folks, slot my thing you don't want so I can get rich". Nobody is even saying "hey slot so I can break even". We're down, we're likely going to stay down, that is what happens when you buy things you want. But what we're saying is "man, it really sucks to watch people willfully choose not to slot on something and then immediately go on the hunt for said item at a discount once it has been approved on site."
Also, I have been in the CW market since Day 1 and I have no idea what a "prommie" is, so forgive me, but I cannot even remotely address that because I've literally never heard the term.
People want to know why things are getting released to friends only and having maybe 1-2 slots left when pinged for the public? The fact that otherwise we can't fill a batch. You want to know why Privates are bigger now than they ever were? Same reason. Why bother with the market when the market wants to go "nah, I don't want that for 500 but now that you have 2 spares left, why don't you sell it to me for 300?" At which point I politely tell people that it's not really fair of me as the releaser to immediately sell things at a discount to someone that people who slotted paid full price for (and unfortunately, this actually happens a lot when I have a spare copy). I'll get people coming to me noting that they liked the item but did not slot, and then asking me to discount the price on the extra I have from the unfilled batch. So clearly it really isn't demand, it's this idea that they're special and shouldn't have to pay full price even though everyone else did.
As to the whole thing where people are complaining that folks pawned their stuff - most of the actual serious complaints I've seen about that (up until this news post, where everyone has decided to vent every feeling they kept to themselves about the pawn shop) were from folks who released private items to friends/a group and offered to buyback the things at the same price if the person didn't want/couldn't use it anymore and then found them in the pawn. Like, when you release something and you say "hey, if you don't want this thing, please let me know and I'll buy it back from you at the same exact price you paid me", it's pretty shitty to then see that they couldn't be assed to do the thing they agreed to when buying it. If you don't like the request/rules/etc, it's not really that hard to just not buy the thing, so I understand where they're coming from. The entire point of Custom Wearables in the beginning was to have private releases for yourself and friends (like, mon frere, you could not even slot items initially - you submitted and paid the 5k yourself because everything was 5k back in the day - at best you could collect CSC cards from people who wanted copies and use that to help try to get it paid for, but if it got denied you had a mess trying to make sure everyone got their money back).
And I'm sorry you think it's greedy to not want to have to pay out another $20 of my own money for an item someone is going to ask to buy a copy of off of me later. I'm super greedy in the hundreds I've spent getting things made, getting recolors made at buyers' requests (which they then don't even buy a copy of, oh well), and getting more things made at the request of other people because I like wearables. I'm sorry me trying to help support artists and releasers by also slotting on other peoples' things makes me so damned greedy that I ask people to slot if they like something instead of waiting until it goes in my shop. It's often now why I tell people that if I have to direct to shop it, the price is going up for anyone who didn't ask for a slot before I submitted it.
Also, again, having been here since the beginning, I've rarely, if ever, seen anything slot for over 700 csc. I think maybe in all my time here I've seen 5 items slot for more than that. Out of 20k I'd say that's pretty damned good. The 700 pricing has been explained in my math several times over, in several places, but once more: if you have something that submits at 5000 csc and you have to provide an artist copy, the only way to not have to put in EVEN MORE of your own money is to price it that way - hell, if you're doing a joint release and have to provide an artist copy plus get your copy and a copy for your partner who helped pay for the art, even at 700 you're still paying some.
If you don't think an item is worth the going slot price, don't buy it. Super simple. But you can't then whine and cry that people won't sell it to you for what you think the value is, nor can you demand releasers lower their price to your standard and then bitch when they won't offer you a discount.
I know I addressed this already, but I want to make sure it's getting clearly heard. I don't care if the item isn't popular, I get that some things are going to be submitted all at my own cost. I have done it before, I will do it again. My problem is that I shell out the extra to get it on site, and then I literally watch as all the copies "nobody wanted" are bought. I watch things go into pawn and be offered in there at 600 csc and be snatched right on out when the releaser sat there for 2 weeks trying to get someone to slot on that copy for the same price. So, your argument that all of these items we can't fill a batch on being unwanted falls extremely flat in the face of the evidence which proves otherwise.
There's no "Class System" on Subeta. My ability to own/release/buy/wear/trade/destroy a CW does not impact your ability to sit down and do quests or restock to earn sP, with which you can buy csc. At the current rate, based on my current questing, it takes just over a week to earn enough sP to buy 700 csc if you do all of your standard quests daily and have a GA. If not, maybe a week and a half.
And, so that we're super clear, because I think you keep missing this (despite the number of 'big name' artists who have also said the same thing - those are the folks we pay to make these lovely cws by the way): WE ARE NOT MAKING ANY MONEY OFF OF THIS. There isn't "MORE MONEY" to be giving them because they really aren't making money to start. Most artists are making LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE every time they make a CW. I'm gonna math it again for you. An artist asks for $50 for a background. They spend a total of 10 hours working on it. They have now made a whopping $5/hour. If there's a denial and they have to do edits that take more than a few minutes? LESS AN HOUR! Yes, some people are faster than others, yes some can get that background done in half the time, so now they've made $10 an hour. That's still actually less than minimum wage in my state, and far more labor intensive (and customized creations at that) than what most people are doing to earn their $10/hour. So....I'm sorry y'all think that people who make art are elitists who are just shoveling your money into bags and swimming in it, but that's sadly not the truth or the facts, and maybe it's time to actually sit down and think about how greedy it is to demand someone work for even less than the minimum living wage because you don't like the pricing and feel it's "unfair" that they charge for their work.
Would that I was rich and talented and could make back even half of what I spent. And this is not me being greedy or expecting anyone to make up for it, it's a simple stated fact because you keep saying how we're making money off of this and we should be doing it for the love/want of a thing and not that - which is what I'm doing or I wouldn't bother with them at all. Would it be nice to not have to pay additional money to get things approved and/or to actually get back some of what I spent? Yep. And guess what, it doesn't make me greedy. Greedy is demanding someone lower their price because I can't afford it and it's unfair to me because I don't want to work for it.
To be fair, there are 3 forums for CWs that are publicly opened, as well as the Suggestions & Ideas forum and some of the subforums, and the Feedback thread. I do not know why that one forum is restricted access - it's not up to me, I have no way to change it. Same with submission costs. And as to that, I'm hoping the dynamic pricing appears sooner rather than later.
Here are the main things that are coming/being worked on to be implemented ASAP to help with the issues:
[li] r200 shops where CWs can be priced in CSC instead of sP (like normal user shops, fully searchable on shop search, but for all the old crap we're trying to offload) - or possibly just allowing r200 items to be priced in csc inside current user shops (I'm unclear which way they're going with this) [li] Smaller initial batch requirements - you'll now only need to worry about 6 slots instead of 10 when submitting [li] more dynamic pricing so that items can be submitted or sent direct-to-shop at more reasonable rates, thus lowering the costs all around without hugely negatively impacting the site [li] Custom wearable database. This will be a page with filters like the wardrobe / pawn shop page, where you can drill down. Also filter by items in custom wearable shops, your wishlist, friends wishlists...
All of these are things currently and actively being looked at and were brought up at the same time Keith said they'd decided to decommission the buying aspect of the CW Pawn. They effectively added a lot of things to their plate, but it's based on user feedback and their acknowledgement that the pawn was not helping the economy.
Whereas I'm coming at it from the opposite aspect, there've been a few items I didn't pings to that I'd love to slot on but got the ping too late and it's just the one batch. I can't seem to catch the items I want to save my sanity; I want to help fill slots on the stuff within my interest, I promise, it just never seems to work out. So there's bitterness and coping via sour grapes, and anger on both sides when we're all just trying to figure out how to function as best we can. It's a mess.
I do wonder if it's people with social phobias or aversions grabbing copies via shops, which is sympathetic enough, but it's still rough on releasers. It's also potentially users who you blocked or are blocked but can still access the shop, which is a loophole I'd actually like to see closed.
Have to agree with what stated: we know the risks we take when releasing CWs. As a non artist releaser, I've spent quite a bit of money getting CWs made that I personally love. I wasn't too concerned about profit because it was something that I wanted to use myself. If my stuff ended up in the pawn shop, I didn't sweat it. I would simply buy it and gift it to someone who had it on their WL. Was no skin off my back. I don't know how I feel about the pawn shop closing (because I did recently grab a few WL items that I missed because I was offline) but I'm willing to see what comes of it.
Yeah, obviously that isn't always the case, but I've had that happen several times now, where immediately after being put in my shop and an announcement sent, the remaining copies are bought. Most of the people following my shop are also in my ping group (which is open and public) and I'm sure a lot of them are also in customwear and several of the other ping groups for filling slots - so the conclusion is that they didn't want to take a slot to help get it on site, but were perfectly happy to grab one as soon as the work was already done and I was now down a lot more money. TBH it makes me want to not release the remainder of copies anymore.
Also, , thank you for shedding some light on what is supposedly supposed to be happening with CWs in the future. However, again, people would have a much better understanding of CWs if they weren't hidden and their ideas were more clear. I've never really understood why that forum was hidden from everyone else. I though Subeta was supposed to be more transparent about things, but not really. That, as Facade (I believe) said, creates a huge Us v. Them mentality. Regular users have no idea what is going on, so if something is crappy with CWs they are going to blame the artist and CW makers. They are going to believe you're all plotting things because they are away from common eyes. I hope that is changed in the future, as well.
. I'll oblige you, though I wasn't the first to throw shade and not ping, but that's just petty to point out. :)
Anyway, most people in here complaining about entitlement and how they aren't "getting back what I lost" is wanting to break even or make money. Not sure how that can be seen any other way. You spent money to get it on the site and you want to break even or get some return on what you spent. What are you trying to break even on or make money for, then, if you aren't concerned with it and would just have made the item anyway? Why is it an issue? I feel it is more than just simple devaluation as people are trying to argue. Why not argue the same for permanent cash shop items or any site items because they lose value and are resold for way less than they did, initially? I also never said artist make a bunch of money off their CWs. I'd think Subeta is making the most off them, not the users. Which is why I mentioned wanting to know why SUBETA could not lower submission prices, so things could go down some, overall. I never said people didn't just go ahead and make their CWs or bench them because people do it all the time, they are obviously not the ones I'm talking about. I'm talking directly about the people who want changes because they feel their items are worth a lot (which is subjective) and they didn't like them being sold over again for a lower price and, supposedly, devaluing the item. Thing is, if someone pawned your item, it's most likely because they could not find anyone who wants to pay a slot price or higher for it and/or it was too tedious. It can be a nightmare trying to comb through the CW forums. It's not just the pawn shop devaluing things. Things literally only have the value someone is willing to pay for it, so if it got tossed in the pawn shop after someone tried to sell or trade it and it got to the lowest selling price, it's simply not worth the slot price, anymore. Or Subeta should have never instituted the items going down in price over time, because, obviously, people are going to wait to get a better deal. That’s just commonsense. And let's be honest, while there are good pieces in the pawn shop, a lot of them are from early days, when standards were not very good. Unless it's some significant item that might mean something to someone or have the right shade for an HA or something, like a Star Wars wig in a particular brown hue, it's probably not going to be bought. Mostly because someone will have made a better Star Wars wig and the one with older art will not sell anymore. The great thing about CWs is that every few weeks or months, someone comes up with a better version of something older. The older item is just not going to sell as well, anymore. When an artist sees it in the pawn shop and is upset it's selling for less, well, because it's worth less, now. Not to say it wasn’t ever good, obviously, but it's not as in-demand. It's like some CWs sellers believe their item should ALWAYS get top dollar, but it simply can't. I haven't been on the CWs scene for a while, since I stopped going in (it started to have too many "exclusive/private releases" for me and gave me a bad taste, like when the prommies were a thing, and I didn't want to have anything to do with that; I'd hope it's not still at that level, now, but going through the comments, it's still a thing, which alone leaves a bad taste in people's mouths and they steer clear, leaving even more people who don't want to spend money on CWs), so no I'm not the most current, you are correct. Though, your experience is not going to be the same experience of every single person. As mine will similarly not be. I get most of my CWs from friends or the occasional item I get from the pawn shop. Last I remember, there were slots going for 700-900 CSC. I'm still in the ballpark with 700 CSC, even if it's a little over on the higher end, so not sure why you pointed that out, especially since they will sell for that high when an item is new or has lots of interest, like you said...
And you're talking about all you must spend/give to get an item onsite. Again, this is up to you, from coming up with the idea to getting an artist in on it and making a deal to spending the money to get things started initially, so it is as simple as just don't make an item if you don't just want it on site for yourself. You're either ready to sacrifice the cash to get it on the site or you're not; you know that before you spend any money on anything or even contact an artist. However, yes, I get that no one wants to just spend money and go through the effort and then no one wants a slot or you can't fill them to get your item made, so you can pay your artist and recoup a bit, but it doesn't exactly fall on the shoulders of other users, is what I'm getting at. If people end up not wanting to buy them, that is the risk you and/or the artist took when you initially decided to make the item (before any money was spent by anyone). If you have get no interest and you're out money, well, then you just have to eat the cost and move on. Subeta, with this change, is coming in to protect the “company” (user) that got in a mess by assuming their item would sell well and retain value. Artist and CWs makers who want to force people to only be able to get it from them, at their valuation (which is always subjective to everyone, something might be worth 500 CSC to the artist, but most other people think it's worth 300 CSC, at best), is kind of harsh and does make you all seem kind of greedy, even if it isn't the truth. No one is forcing anyone to make a CW and, like most things, it is a risk. Another thing is, a lot of "regular" users already feel way behind artists and CW makers because they can make more than the regular user (especially with how CSC is so much more expensive to buy with sP, now), so this whole move seems like a big cash grab, whether it is or not. I understand it, though, but what I'm saying is how it looks and no one wants to give the "rich and talented" more money when we know that they could release a selling board and make more CSC or sP in a few days than most users see in years. It's funny, but it's almost like Subeta has classes and Subeta is making a move to protect the upper class. Might not be true, but it's what like after CWs came on the scene. And it makes sense because it makes Subeta money.
Can all of that be fixed in a completely fair way? Probably not, as you can't please everyone with everything. I believe Subeta made a few missteps (having CWs cost so much to make and having the pawn shop lower price on items over time; if something is left after a certain amount of time, maybe 3 months, clear them or give them back to the original creator and let them figure things out), but, hopefully, they can be fixed. Lastly, I wish Subeta would properly explain things to users and not just say, “something better is planned/coming.” The bits and pieces we are getting in the comments are not well explained and a user should not have to dig for this, frankly important, information. If we were presented with this AND the solutions to it, in full to let us see the vision Subeta sees, I don’t think there would be so much fallout, unless the new idea is genuinely bad. Subeta is like that, though, which causes drama to the highest scale.
I wrote this earlier before I went out, so if things have been addressed between then and now, sorry for my inaccuracy.
yes, you already made that joke.
Yeah I thought I'd put my two cents in so that someone can collect it and maybe get a CW. ;)
because of the massive walls of text.... I am keeping my comment brief. I do not like this decision, yes I know the r200 threads have better discounts, but some of my best CW finds have been on the Pawn Shop pages. Things not available anymore form the original shops for whatever reasons. shrugs
Coming into this thread as a largely non-CW user:
[img src="http://cdn0.dailydot.com/uploaded/images/original/2013/2/7/darkest_timeline.gif"]
im seeing a lot of assumptions that artist = releaser and thats not the case huehuehue poor releaser had to fork out money to commission the artist. theyre not trying to break even on their stuff, let alone profit. theyre just trying to cut losses as much as they can.
CUT LOSSES
CUT CUT CUT
nobody profits from cws NOBODY NO ONE PROFITS (and those who do in turn use their "profits" to help someone else get items onsite, so ya, the profit goes back to the community anyway smh)
That is terrible, what you mentioned about people just waiting to grab it immediately from shop rather than bothering to slot on it; I can understand someone finding it after the fact, but that doesn't sound like what you're describing. I haven't had that happen, but I don't do limited releases and that's probably what is talking about with the wider perspective.
TLDR: good for buyers (-$2~$3), bad for sellers (-$7).
as for head and hair items, I think it's time wigs and head accessories get different categories. That 2-column list layout also needs to change. With all that empty space, CW pawn shop isn't as organized as it could be.
are you adding your two cents after making fun of everyone for adding their two cents now? Hahahaha.
Me being new to the CW releasing market, I found selling recolors directly to my shop was way easier than taking note of who wants what. You can limit it if you want, what I didn't like to do to anyone who wanted my CWs was for them to pay over what was slot price and for them to get a chance at getting a slot. It makes me sad when you find a unique wig and bam, it's one batch and sold out... and future recolors are the same. You know you have a hot commodity, why not make one color where everyone can get it without the need to be on 24/7, or feel out of the loop/clique with the seller. If you like, join the seller's ping group, you get first dibs before customwear. Anyways, I hardly buy from secondary markets (R200) or Pawn Shop. I feel if I don't get it, it's not meant to be and look, the sun will come out tomorrow. :)
(this is all with lots of grains of salt because I'm not that in the cw market :'D /flail)
I don't think the pawn shop was the chief cause of the cw economy being the way it is. I agree with re: item worth. Taking the pawn shop away is not going to change that.
r200 boards generally offered (and still offer) way better discounts than the pawn shop anyway. And that goes for items not in the pawn shop. I mean did people want to offload cws at prices of 400, 500 precisely because the pawn shop's buying and selling prices? I don't really think so. Chances are people wanted some csc back for the item and who cares if it didn't sell at slot price if they were needing csc and/or used the item? Losing 200 csc in the grand scheme of things doesn't seem like a lot when you have a lot to sell and you already feel like you used the item and got some wear out of it. At least that's how I feel like when I price the cws.
And then once people see any price the general rule of thumb is to stick to it. If it went for 500 once or twice when slot price was 700 then hey it must not be highly sought after, right? Conversely, if someone, anyone, wanted it for 5k then it must be in demand. And while that's usually true (as in no one just offers 5k on a cw rotting in trades unless they're generous / bored), it's not exactly always the case, but it seems like we generally fixate on past prices in order to be "fair" to everyone we forget demand can fluctuate. The pawn shop exacerbated this issue, because it was in a way more public. You went there and saw a cw in x color and maybe thought if that's there then the same cw in y color could just as easily be there unless it's like super private or something. You saw it just sit and rot because of how available it was that people even if they vaguely wanted it were like ooh but I can get that tomorrow because they'd prioritize other limited cws over the pawned one. However, I don't think the pawn shop was the root of the problem. I think people wanting to sell for less than slot price on r200 until it became like a regular thing to the point of hey it's not really new, it's on a r200 board, you shouldn't be really trying to sell that wig for its price of 700 became a mentality thing?
yeah that's the way I see it, idk like I said I've not been active A LOT in the cw community but when I was, it was mostly r200 boards precisely because I had less csc to spend and I wanted to play catch up with older cws I wanted and knew r200 was a cheaper option and hey, it was and still is! so yeah, I think that's the issue there
omg I need to shut up now, holy wall of textttttttt o___o; /backs away to a corner lmao
I swear it was the other way around but also possibly I got that backwards. Most of the cheap stuff was way old though, I do know that.
It's not necessarily about the loss factor on the overall cost so much as how it's been devaluing the entire market - there's no inherent value to the items you slot on because if 3 spaces didn't fill, sometimes the creator has to pawn the spares, so you paid 700 csc for your slot, but you can go buy it for less already in pawn because that was the only way to try and recoup some of the loss you just paid out submitting to the site. On top of that, some people slot and then pawn because now they have other slots to pay for. I mean, it's rare, but newly approved items sometimes appear in the pawn within 24 hours for whatever reason. It's hard for people to go "I like this, but if I end up not using it, I'm only going to get 300 csc back out of the 600 I paid because people don't buy unless you sell for pawn pricing" so that makes it difficult for them to have faith that the item will be worth what they paid still.
My understanding is that items that are r200 will be able to be priced in CSC but will work the same as normal shops, so you could conceivably go to my shop, click the "wishlist search" and see anything I have in there that is on your WL - just like you can right now with normal sP shops and/or galleries (AHAHAHA, apparently I accidentally quickstocked NY tokens into my cw selling gallery so yay for that feature because I need those). So, while it won't show you every person's shops with cws, if you're going to a shop that has them, you will be able to see if they have anything from your WL with a click of the button!
Ah yeah, I'm not sure why that forum is restricted to only people who have submitted a CW and had it approved. I've wondered that for a long time actually.
Maybe can explain why the CW Creators Forum is restricted that way?
Haha I've had my fair share of people mad at me for my releases when they missed slots or didn't like it was private so I just ignore them. The thing is though if we make everything public and unlimited, the assholes win lol and that doesn't do good for anyone.
Haha yea the site is insane the only reason I check that site is cause a lot of times I'm either linked to it by friends, or its a way to escape from the real life disasters going on especially right now. I do like defending my friends, and I do like to laugh when people put shit about me on there cause everyone assumes they know everything about anyone they put on there so it gives me a good laugh