Aw. This makes me sad. I enjoy browsing through the CW Pawn Shop even if I can't afford to buy anything (so, always).
To me, this cements the fact that CWs were never a good idea.
Thank you for clarifying! I was like...seriously I am not calling anyone those things haha.
And yeah, people who are always hunting for the cheapest cws probably will not buy, but a lot of what was bought (according to posts by Keith who has access to the backend) were things that really weren't cheaper, so I think this will just possibly help folks (me included) who went "eh maybe later" decide to buy if they actually want it.
Dude right? I'm like...you should have bought it when it was there my friend, because I'm gonna ask you for what I paid, and sometimes I'll go a little lower, but I'm not taking half off because one time someone who quit dumped their wardrobe into the pawn (which has happened recently).
I don't know if it's been brought up here or not, but Keith has been listening to suggestions from creators/releasers and is looking into making the submission pricing more dynamic overall and reducing batch size requirements, so hopefully that will help breathe some life back into things for us all. I honestly don't care if I paid $50 back in the day to submit, I'm so happy they've been listening to suggestions and adjusting the pricing to make more sense for us. I know they have to think of the bottom line too (because we only have Jessi right now and even with a reduction in submissions, it's still a lot of work and overwhelming for one staff member, so they have to make it cost effective on their end as well), but I'm glad they're at least trying to work on the problem.
I think the biggest helping factor will be r200 user shops, where we get to put our CWs up for sale for csc instead of sP, and then they're easy to see on shop search. I don't always remember to do run-throughs on my wishlist to see if anything is listed in shops/trades (and I never remember to search galleries even though I have a giant one filled with CWs I'm selling). It will allow us to sell without so much of the hassle. And we can still do forums/take sP/trades/etc. It will just make it easier to see it all.
Also yeah, the price decay I thought was not a great idea from the start, but I understand the thought process behind it (because that CW Pawn fills up so fast and then things just hang out forever). I wish it had worked out better, but I think it's definitely done more bad than good for the market.
Adding a little comment to contribute to the balance.
I don't know how this will affect the CW economy, but I have faith that staff has considered it carefully before making their decision. I have gotten many lovely items out of the pawn shop, and I will miss it, but I am curious to see what consequences this will have, and if it can improve the current conditions. Personally, my greatest concern right now is the rising price of csc, which MIGHT be somewhat remedied when we aren't sinking any into the pawn shop.
At the time the pawn shop was implemented, it fixed a problem at that time, but now it is the problem. I am all for it closing personally, the cw market needs some help and I hope this helps it.
Let me also break down for you what it costs, me as a releaser, who is not an artist to get a cw on site:
so why should I as a releaser, even release more cw's if my cw is not slotting, I am not profiting(which there is usually not at all!) and have my cw devalue right after release.
I hope the changes to come we will be able to fill batches again, get the cw market going strong, and bring new artists and commissioners to the cw market!
the selfish part of my post wasn't directed at you lol, sorry my post is badly formatted. the only part directed at you was the middle part
i think it's funny how staff did the "price decay over time" thing in the pawn shop though like way to go guys... kind of brought it upon yourselves...
While I get where you're coming from (as I've stated numerous times, I get that some items just aren't popular), I'm not talking about impulse slotting. Some things take awhile to fill the batch, I'm also not talking about that.
But I have literally, firsthand, not been able to fill a single batch of an item, had to direct to shop it, put the remainder of the items left that didn't fill (ie, I said one batch, had 7 slots including mine and artist, put the remaining 3 copies up in my CW shop) and watched them fly out of there in seconds. So, the argument that people don't want them isn't always true. It's that they figure they can get it later and don't slot now. Especially when they can go "huh, maybe someone will toss it in pawn and I can get a discount". Also, the number of people who come to buy something second-hand from me and go "oh it was in pawn 6 months ago for X, will you sell it to me for that" is astounding. So yes, people just want discounts. They don't want to pay what I had to pay to get it on the site, and unfortunately my level of control over that is pretty limited since I don't set submission prices.
And I literally never once called anyone selfish. But people who tell me "I don't care if you lose $100 that's your fault, don't like it make it friends only" and then bitch if I do just that have made me far less inclined to take public slots at all for anything. So that's a two-way street when folks are sitting here calling everyone who submits greedy and accusing us of sitting on piles of csc like....no folks, we're losing and if we point out the cost, you tell us we should just not submit then, and then also complain that you can't get CWs? I don't understand the logic disconnect really.
I'm hoping that this is like phase 1, and phase 2 will be killing it all the way? The Pawn shop had merit when it first started but it's become a beast that just needs to stop. Very excited to hear for other options happening in the near future.
I'm also really hoping that the end of the pawn shop will ultimately make it easier for the site to have CW shop sales (y'know, like 25% off or whatever they did for BF)? Which would still get the makers their cut, and hopefully sell more copies (to earn back a bit more of the submit-to-shop fees and whatnot), without the worry of utter devaluing the CW because worse case you'll get your money back without fear of "well there's 5 copies in the pawn shop LOL only buy it if you need it".
Mostly I'm excited about the r200 shops thou. I kinda fell out of the CW game for this that or another, but sometimes I just really need something or I just like looking at all the pretty art/designs people have come up with. So glad that we'll hopefully have a less harmful means of browsing CWs for sale in the future!
Hmm I kind of see the point people are getting at that maybe closing the pawn shop the buyer will go "ooh SHIt this item is NOW OR NEVER better impulse slot" but it's...just not going to be the case most of the time. The success of an item is still heavily reliant on whether or not the consumer actually likes the item, and limited-time offers don't really fix that.
I feel like people make generalizations of what the slotting process is because that's what it is for the items they want. It just so happens that the items they want often have those like 20 people fighting over like 2 non-preclaim slots or are private releases. Meanwhile the items that end up getting the customwear ping are stuff that...have trouble getting interest in the first place, it's stuff that a lot of people don't want. Again, people don't think item is worth => no slot.
@ the "selfish" comment - yes everyone is inherently selfish, it's the basis of the economy. consumer doesn't think item is worth the premium, creator doesn't think item is worth shelling out money to release. no side is necessarily better than the other, we all want to save money here. and bashing a consumer for not buying at item at slot price will alienate the consumer (sure has made me less interested now).
I get that it needs to be done, but as someone who only has time to lurk a few minutes here and there, it kinda sucks having to rely on forums for CWs. Like I literally have the CW pawn shop bookmarked to look through it every so often for new things (I only ever check the first page of recently added items). Probably the only thing at this point I actually buy CSC for. Ah well I guess.
This makes me sad. :c I understand why its being done, but, as a person who relies on thrift stores and secondhand items irl, understanding will not override the sadness.
But I pose this question to any staffer that can answer: Why close the pawn shop before the other improvements are ready?
I'm pretty bummed as the CW market got overwhelming WAY too fast and now it's basically so much stuff out there what is even the point of going and finding stuff to buy? Even the cw in the cs is kinda hard to just browse. Pawn shop was the only way I could find new items I didn't know about and wanted. As a casual user, this is just really alienating.
I just want to note, for everyone complaining that all the CWs being released on the forums are private/friends only/etc....
In the last 15 days (which is all my ping history shows, Dec 23rd to now) have received 44 pings from the CustomWear ping group (which is only ping'd by folks who are releasing public wearables). That is an average of 3 releases a day that are public (obviously it is not necessarily 3 per day, some days would've had more, some less). All of this during the absolute slowest time for releases all year (because November through mid-January is hard hard hard to slot things, everyone is saving for the BF sale, then everyone is saving for gifts, then everyone is recovering).
Typically, I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-40 pings from CustomWear, 1stbatch, and/or CWFill per day. All of those groups have restrictions on how often and when you can ping (customwear is the most strict, allowing for one ping every 2 weeks for each new public release you are advertising).
Just joining CustomWear means you'll have access to the vast majority of the released CWs, and your only required interaction will be to click the ping, decide you like the item, and ping the releaser saying "slot on X please". We don't expect to be friends with everyone, you don't have to talk to us, you don't have to play at being friends. If you want to know how to see most of the new public items before they appear on site, just join the group.
No offense but the fact that people are bad at predicting interest in an item doesn't constitute an emergency on the market's part.
I've been reading more about what goes into CW's and.. I see both sides. I'm on the side that can't afford CSC even by SP most days, unless given by site events (so grateful for that ty site I mean that). Or (again) I'm gifted them by friends and I adore them for that.
But, in reading how much money it takes and how much goes into actually putting or getting them onto site and not being able to break even.. that just sucks. I have no idea what a solution is, but I feel for both sides and I hope in the end everyone wins.
I like the CW pawn shop :/
"There is a fine line in walking around the fact that now more than 20,000 items on the site are custom wearables and you will not be able to get every single one" Challenge accepted! Runs off to try to win the lotto, to buy all 20,000 CWs
Seriously though, I have a handful of Custom Wearables, but I've bought them from both user shops and the pawn shop. Most were during special sale events, some not. I try to keep my contact with other Subeta buyers/sellers to a very minimum. If I see it in a shop and want/can afford it, I will buy it. The forum groups with the CW creators and sign-up sheet just scare me. I really don't even know how to begin to request to be included, or have the inclination to want to "sign-up" for something which may or may not be released some day.
I look forward to any system that will let us navigate the CWs easier. As others mentioned, sometimes I didn't even know an item existed until I randomly browsed the Pawn Shop. Often, I would use the Pawn Shop to search items that I liked the artwork style, which would lead me to the maker's personal shop. Where in turn, I would buy a completely different item than what was in the Pawn Shop. If we had some method of "related" item search, I would absolutely love that!
I don't really think that's the problem actually. At one point there were 20+ things in Pawn I wanted....but I didn't buy them because I figured 'eh, I'll get it later'. It's not because I wasn't willing to pay for the item, it's because I wasn't willing to pay right now for this thing I could get later. It's often why I don't buy items that are unlimited in user shops unless I actually need it for an HA right then. And it's a big factor in why I don't do unlimited batches unless I have to direct to shop something.
On a sidenote, I'm really excited about the r200 shops and I'm gonna keep telling you that everywhere because hurry xD I would love to move the gallery into a shop and just price that crap and not have to worry about it anymore.
So, I'm pretty sure your entire answer was directed at my post, without pinging me for whatever reason, but I'll address what you said
I'm not actually worried about breaking even. I get things made because I want them. Sometimes I get recolors made because people ask for them (and half the time those people then don't even slot after they begged for it, but that's another story). I was addressing this notion y'all have that people who make and/or release CWs are getting rich off of it and illustrating how very much we are not. (as a side note, I pretty much never see people slotting items for above 700 csc unless they're new to the market, so I don't know where you got the bit of your argument that people are routinely asking 700-900 csc for slots - most items are 500-700 if you actually, you know, look at release threads).
Also - I absolutely get that not everyone wants every item, a lot of things are pretty niche or pretty similar to other things on site already. However that statement about just not putting it on site if it doesn't get enough interest? That doesn't really work. Beyond the fact that we've already spent anywhere from $15-50+ (often in USD not in CSC) just to have it made, most artists require a copy of the item as part of payment. What that means is that, within the set time-frame from them, that item has to get on site, one way or another. So if I only get 5 people interested, I can't fill a batch, and I have to now come up with the difference. Or I have to use the direct to CS feature, which means if I stated the item was a single batch, I need to monitor how many copies I sell and then I have a permanent item sitting in that shop that I can never remove (because there's no way to remove items with 0 copies or items we do not want to ever sell again) AND I have to shell out 1300+ csc to get it on site (depending on what category it falls in). Doing that also does not give me a copy, because the 'free' copy I get for submitting that way has to go to my artist. So bare minimum spent is going to be 1500+ csc to get it on site. After I've spent X amount having it made.
You're right, you aren't obligated to buy things just because someone spent money on them, but if you think it's as simple as "oh well don't make things then" you're missing out on the fact that people have already done that and don't want to basically just burn money by not getting it on site.
Next time you wanna toss some shade at me, just ping me ;)
Selfish?!?
I really don't understand if this will or wont affect CW shops. Will there be new rules? I think we need a "The bottom line is this...." type of post that just puts everything out on the table to clear up any confusion.
I most certainly have to agree with and about my preferred way to buy CWs, and I won't be using the forums either!
god, so many selfish people in this comment section lol
I know a better solution: Keep the shop. Every time somebody buys their item from the shop, the artist gets a share.
Everybody wins!
Economics anyone? Increasing scarcity when demand is already so low isn't gonna help at all.
Certainly not from the consumers perspective.
Wow, seems like many people like me don't buy cw anymore not only because of price, I use to buy lots but got tired of only friends, groups privates. So I stopped buying because of that, instead of being rewarding for wanting to buy your CW I was punished for wanting it so I stopped.
Aww man... I found so much good stuff in the Pawn Shop. I'll occasionally buy stuff that I see in the Trades center if it's something I really like, but that's a rare occasion. Most of the CW's I purchased I got from the Pawn Shop. I don't always have the mental energy/desire to delve into the forums and deal with people. The Pawn Shop was great, because I could just browse, and find something great in there, without having to work up the nerve to talk to other people. Sigh.
So you're taking away the Pawn Shop, the place where I have bought pretty much all of my CWs, gee thanks Subeta!
The CW forums are a joke, most CWs are private / friends only or limited 1 batch slots with a ton of user created rules that if you don't abide by you get blacklisted from ever purchasing CWs from that person (and others sometimes because they "share blacklists") again. I like the CW Pawn Shop because it also gives me access to older CWs that are no longer being sold without having to deal with users hyper inflating them in trades!
What the heck is the point of it being called a Pawn Shop if you can't buy items from it? Rick Harrison would be ashamed.
Like many people here I actually buy from the Pawn Shop once in a while. The reason for this is not to get items 'cheap' but because I really dislike the CW forum.
Half of the items being sold are exclusive/ friends only/ pinged only/ 1 batch/... making it a very inaccessible forum. Most of the time I feel like it's High School all over again and I'm not part of the preppy/cheerleader bunch.
So yes, I was happy with the shop because I was able to buy things without feeling unwelcome or an intruder. Now that the shop will close I will not go back to the forum, because that feeling won't change. I will just not buy CW's anymore which also means I will not need CSC from the Cash Shop anymore...
I do think that this decision will mean less income for Subeta.
I always felt intimidated by the CW forums because they feel cliquey for the most part. And, it seemed like you had to be on 24/7 if you wanted even a chance at slotting for something. That's the reason why I stayed away from CWs for a while.
What got me okay with buying CWs was the Pawn Shop... No exclusive groups, no need to be online frequently, and a handy wishlist search. I've found some nice stuff, like a makeup I didn't know existed but it's exactly what I wanted. I'm upset that this is being closed except in certain events. It seems like CWs are going to be out of reach for more people now.
I don't mind going to the forums to buy CWs, but I just don't want to feel like I don't belong because I can't afford a bunch of CWs a month. It would also be really helpful if there was some sort of search feature in the forums to find an item you want more easily.
Well, I've only just started spending money in the CW Pawn Shop over the last few weeks so I don't suppose it will make a lot of difference to me - but on the positive side it does mean I don't have to spend so much real money on buying CSCs every month! I'll have more money in my pocket, Subeta will have less :)
this just in: i got new soap this time i bought a huge bottle so theres no way it can all go down the toilet
i think
I love the pawn shop, I've bought most of my cws from there because it was much easier than buying from users. For example one time I really really wanted a cw from someone's advertising board, they took 3 days to respond then asked me to pay 2x what they paid for it and then I found it in the pawn shop through a search and it was awesome. If you're concerned about cws losing their value it seems like this won't help, you're giving users the ability to inflate their value, which you know they will do, which would be great for your profits but not so great for the rest of us. Even if we get the ability to purchase cws from users, it's a shame not to have access to this year round. I know I'll spend less on csc because I can't just impulse buy items.
Well, Pawn Shop was the only place where I could search stuff by WL/layers, prices etc. Trades don't have that, CW shops page is rather mess, inventory planned by Keith would be nice but I'm aware how long can those things sometimes take on Subeta, and I do not have time/patience to deal with forums. Also, since this is basically a way to make people pay more for CWs - I won't cause I simply can't afford it. So, the way it looks right now, I won't be getting any CWs anymore. Cool shrugs
Why?!?! D:
um... so... shouldn't an explanation have been included in the news post itself, rather than expecting users to just guess as to why this is happening, or expecting them to go through all the comments?
Really long post incoming. Sorry about that!
I’m not particularly sad about the CW pawn shop closing because I understand the reasoning, but most of my CWs are bought through the pawn - the forums and the CW shop alike are a pain in the ass to pick through, completely leaving aside the functionality issues, and the pawn offered a quick, easy way for me to get into CWs that didn’t require hours of searching, posting, waiting, digging. The pawn is literally the reason why I finally got into CWs after years of eyeing them warily. It’s also how I got all of my no-longer-sold CWs. (We really need a way to get old CWs back into circulation.)
That’s really my main issue with the pawn shop being closed. I know Keith has said they’re going to implement a new way to browse CWs, but we don’t know when that will be; in the meantime, CWs are going to be hidden away out of reach of the casual user again.
And honestly? I don’t think the pawn is the only issue that the CW market faces right now. Oversaturation of very similar items, including a fucking torrent of recolors of some hairs. How many Princess Strands are there? 22! There are 22 colors. (I don’t care if most recolors are asked for - that’s excessive.) Drama surrounding cliques and privates, including a lot of entitlement on the part of CW artists regarding item use and ridiculous inflation of rare items. Quality issues, with a lot of items being approved - even today - that don’t match site style. New artists having difficulty getting approved without having a well-known CW publisher push one of their items to site.
Admittedly, this is from the perspective of a rando on the outskirts of the CW community, but before you get upset with me, please ask yourself: Is that the impression you want your community to give outsiders? Because that’s what I’ve heard and seen so far.
There’s other things going on as well - inflation of CSC, more frequent (and more attractive) item releases from the cash shop, etc. - but the CW market has plenty going on by itself to make it intimidating and unwelcoming to new buyers and new artists alike. Closing the pawn shop may bolster the CW community, and I hope it does because there are some great people and some beautiful art coming out of the forums, but it is not a cure-all. Here’s hoping we see some more changes, both in the site and in the community itself.
o well hoping to get csc/enough csc to get the ones I want from pawn before it closes
Hmmm, honestly, I think CWs should all be cheaper than even pawn shop. Honestly though it can't really be fixed because the price just for submitting and approval of a basic CW is so freakin expensive. I considered doing it myself, but wasn't willing to pay 30-60$ fora gamble, and a return only in a virtual currency. Even if I profit CSC wise in the end, I'm still out 50$ so what's the point? :/ truly I think that submission prices should be much cheaper (around 500-1000CSC). Why? Well its gonna open the market up to allow more users to submit their products to the market. If the CW is approved, it means pricing would only need to be around 100-300 per item, which is obviously MUCH more favorable to people in general. I guarantee you CWs would NOT be losing value then because it would be a very steady stream of CSC for the most part. Theres so many users that would be willing to spend that amount. Youre missing out on a huge market of people (read the comments, it's half the people here) that aren't willing to pay 5-10$ just for ONE virtual item. If prices for submission were lower, item prices would be lower, BUT there would be a much larger market of buyers, more profit in the end. This would also mean more submissions from artists, more custom items being created daily. I understand you've gotta make money somehow, but the submission prices are too much, and it causes inflated prices upon release. Idk just my own opinion tbh.
I get why it would be needed (the cw market and devaluing and all that) but also sad to see it go. :/ I finally got a job and could start purchasing csc too. Guess I'll be dumping my paycheck tomorrow into csc for the pawn shop while it's open.
That was something I was already fully aware of, but thank you anyway.
Hum, I'm curious how the replacement will work. I have to say, as someone who is unable to spend real money for CSC, I usually saved up for a birthday splurge and could only afford something I discovered in the pawn shop. So this is a little sad for me as I am not able to consistently plunk down 700 csc whenever I see something nice, and am now not sure how my once a year treat to myself will be able to continue.
I don't know much about the CW economy but apparently, this is a good move for a lot of you who make the CWs? I'm sure that it'll work out and there will still be chances for us with less CSC abilities to get items somehow or another. :)
I meant I enjoyed using the Pawn Shop. It's 12.30am. I'm not at my best.
I agree with some of the points made by facade. Generally I've bought from the pawn shop because I've found an item I didn't even know existed. I am probably one of the 5 or so percent who buy CSC the same day as purchasing from the pawn shop. I am also one of the offenders who buy and sell quite a lot to the pawn shop. Personally, I don't find it to be a great bargain. It's only in general 100CSC less than a private shop. Sorry artist, I really didn't know your shop existed and saw your item in the pawn shop. If I sell your item sometimes a very short time later, it's because I have other very similar items and I can't justify having it in there. Other times I might have your item for months but never end up wearing. I also lose real life money when I sell it for half of what I paid for it. I don't even want to think about how much money I've lost doing this. Having said that, I really did enjoy using the CW shop and hope whatever system replaces it will allow non-forum people to locate CW's.....the wig I'm wearing now was a pawn shop purchase, but I found it's sister in the artist's shop. :)
: LOL, go and sleep. XD
Geez so hard to type while watching TV.
While I'm glad to see the Pawn Shop close soon, I can understand/see why some users are dissatisfied. Personally, I'm happy to see it because it would increase the value of CWs. But I would really like to see the cost of submitting to be lowered it's kinda expensive for slotting and as other has mentioned a CW directory and/or easier ways to search CWs around the site.
If people won't pay 300-400-500 for an item than they sure as hell aren't going to pay 600-700 for it. This is just going to push people even further away.
The plans for a user shop to sell CWs for CSC are a bright outlook. I seldom sell my CWs at all yet if I decide one day that I want to sell some, it would be very convenient to have an own shop for this with CSC pricing opportunity. The R-200 forum could be used for advertising nevertheless yet people not browsing the forums that often would find a desired CW more quickly. I love the idea, thank you so much for considering this, Keith!
I don´t think we´ll find much highly popular 1 batch / friends only / private items in the Pawn Shop. I like to browse it several time a day because sometimes, I see a small accessory I don´t have so far and snatch it up for me or friends. Only very rarely to never, I find these highly in demand items in there. Often, I was the first in line not able to slot anymore because all slots where gone. So the item goes on my WL and brings me joy when looking at it, there are so many gorgeous designs our wonderful artists have created here. Perhaps, one day, I´ll be able to find it somewhere. And there is always the chance to use it in the wardrobe for free, be it for making our own designs, be it for participating in a HA challenge where all items are allowed. So we get to play around with the shinies for free and that´s a wonderful opportunity I am very thankful for.
So I'm a bit late to the party but I'll add my 2 cents here as well. As a non-artist releaser, I've spent HUNDREDS of dollars on commissions. None of us releasers are making huge amounts of profit. Oh how I wish that weren't the case, but that's the way it is. Most of the time I 1 batch items because that's the only way I can get the item on-site. Hell, sometimes that doesn't even work and the item that I paid real money for sits in a folder on my desktop, never seeing the light of day again. I'm all for anything that perks the CW market back up. It's been a long time coming and I'm hopeful that these changes really are for the better of everyone in the CW fam.
I was looking through the comment chain for staff's input and this showed up:
which is really confusing?
anyway, so primary concern from your perspective was a net loss (people paying $7 to get item and then another $4-$5 from person buying from pawn shop instead of a possible another $7 from trades or r200). In that case yes, I can see why creators or frequent sellers want the pawn shop shut down. But definitely still think that buying a CW secondhand should be refined to the ease of that of the Pawn Shop's before letting it go. r200 shops is an amazing idea to combat this, but i think some sort of wishlist search for that should be in order, too. Slowly my CW wishlist gets longer and it is indeed a pain in the ass to individually click through and check availability. if it's actually the case keith mentioned though, then closing pawn shop doesn't make much sense, and stopping the price decay feature would be best.
Also, I can't access the Creators subforum since I'm not a member. Think that's part of why there is an "us vs. them" mentality here. Thanks for letting us know it's worked on, though it would be nice if staff relayed those ideas to us more