problem when comparing inflation rates of real currencies to inflation rates of countries, people don't just up and leave when the country decides to print off less money. Countries aren't worried about losing citizens all of a sudden. bringing the comparison of zimbabwe currenty into the mix is sorta funny, but pretty irrelevant to our situation. if it ever reaches a point where 100 trillion is play money, then the site may have to do the same thing. but the current rate, I don't see this ever happening.

csc is just the best example because its another currency as well as an item, likely the most popular and traded item.

after the initial shock wore off and prices re-settled people would realize they're just as well off doing quests then as now, and other prices are more stable and eventually with viable sp sinks, extremely rare items would actually possibly be attainable.

you don't care, but I do :). I plan on sticking around subeta and I'd rather see it in a better rather than worse in 5 years... And I certainly don't think it would have the drastic effect on the userbase you do, as that's always been a major factor with me, userbase growth. In fact I've made and supported several other suggestions in the past that rather negatively effected me, mostly concerning pets and battling, solely because I thought it was best to help the site grow. Your point on wealth inequality would be immediately right, but hopefulyl at some point some idea comes up to get more sP flowing around the site, most especially something that makes people with billions want to spend a lot of sP, what that it, who could say, but it is just as vital, for sure.

it would likely go over much well with people if done as you've said, cutting it slowly a bit at a time. The point about the profit only being meaningful to me, I'd like to say that the "about page" says that my experience is typical. Even with pet slots taking 300m/user to max from the MC, the total sP on site has nearly completely rebounded in just days and those that bought them can't buy them again, it's a one shot thing, and that was certainly the most effective sink we've ever had.

@blackwolf_2009 this certainly isn't about being able to buy csc, again the price of csc is just a great gauge to use because its a currency and an item.

I'm not sure whether i prefer debating with or against you :P

we're talking about what is literally the most expensive item on site that is able to be attained by anyone (or was before the antique shop, woops forgot about that XD). I think someone should be able to earn it with a great deal of effort over a long period of time, but 15 minutes a day over less than year does not seem appropriate at all. Sure it's just one item, but it's price is meant to make it incredibly hard to attain. Items that are hard to attain are also incredibly vital to a successful virtual economy, it gives people something to work for.

cinthia still nets a fairly good profit if you consider the sP value of her item rewards, which no one ever takes in to account because everyone's so used to making pure sP, that's just a habit I want to rid the site of.

no ones getting ahead if everyone's getting ahead. if everyone can afford something, the price goes up, its basic supply and demand.

I agree they do need to be somewhat profitable, but 100% consistent profit from most quests isn't somewhat. I think 505 is a reasonable suggestion, given the amount of time quests take and the amount of time quitting takes compared to finishing.

a virtual economy is different from an RL one, though many of the basic principles are the same, such as pumping out too much currency = bad.

@ mike then I guess that's where our opinions will differ. Months at a time is a substantial enough time IMO to spend trying to obtain an item. A year is a bit of an overkill, especially if there are thousands more items to earn (that aren't all cheap!). I agree, have items for people to work for, but not an obscene amount of time. There comes a point where people won't even bother because it takes far too long to obtain. It's nice to see the light at the end of a tunnel unlike other pet sites where no matter how much time you spend trying to earn things you make little to no progress.

For example, let's say the avg person makes 2m sP a day from quests (since that seems to be a common amount used). User is trying to buy the Crown Of The Royals (250m sP). That breaks down to 125 days of questing... A hair over 4 months. That's if: they do all of their quests, every day of the week nonstop and retain the 2m profit.

4 months for a 250m is, IMO, long enough time spent earning an item, even if they only spend their time on subeta doing their quests.

Of course that 4 months can vary, more or less, given they sell their items. But, they also may not log on every single day, either. To me, it balances out.

woops that wasn't even the most expensive item from MC

That seems to be brought up often. Again if you want to raise the value of sP back to what it was it's going to need item sinks for a start and maybe making CSC unbuyable with sP once again. As of right now how it stands, besides trying to up the price of cheap items that need to be at a higher value the economy isn't all that bad for a pet-site. I'd rather never have this site turn into neopets economy.

Unpopular opinion thread is clearly very popular.

I haven't read it all - but I can say that I made a killing just doing 5 quests for Shinwa. I shouldn't make 100k from 5 quests unless they are Saggi (then I should make more)

But for Saggi - you should put the sP limit back on him & also increase it to say... 10 mil? The average? That way you have SOME control over it. Not much, but some.

Then the whole purpose to the WQs would be thrown right out the window. What's the point on having weekend super quests if you get rid of the increased sP (not that I ever see any increases with the exception of Saggi and Wiz)? Sometimes people only have the weekends to quest and that little added bonus is very nice.

but some inflation is good in real economies, and most items aren't really inflating here, they're stagnant or deflating. except right now there has been a trend of someone buying out a lot of items so they've been inflated... that's different. if we're worried about the stability of the site, we need to do it in the way that pisses off the userbase the least, and I think this is done through more sinks than nerfs. if we're serious about big sinks, we really need a comparable line of wearables to the lunar cycle csc ones to go into the MC or a new shop at high end prices of 3-5m a piece, with some regularity. high end weapons only appeal to certain people, and at some point, adding those in scares off newer battlers. most of the site likes wearables, why do we not have that many of these in the MC? I'm sure more in the MC would lead to more sP being sunk.

I beg to differ. I will not be wasting my time doing quests to earn 10k. I will, instead, stop playing here if that occurs.

WQ = wizard quests, which is why I mentioned tokens. I've seen weekend quests abbreviated as WSQs more often.

Looks like I'm more pessimistic about how the user base will react in the short-term than you are haha. Agree to disagree.

If we want more frequent sP sinks then I think perhaps we should come out with a shop that has high end goods like the boutique but for sP at, like said, 3-5 mil each. If the stock on those changes enough and frequently, many users (myself included) would be only too happy to toss sP for more wears. We need a CONSTANT sP sink, not just 5 pet slots and we're done.

But lowering the amount of rewards from quests will just enrage the users on site. Even the IDEA of doing it has many users voicing their disagreement as we've seen here. This is not the way to go about things.

All I can say is that this whole thing is crackerjack, nutters and just plain stupid and really should just be forgotten about in all honesty XS

Might want to keep in mind those Community Guidelines you always love to remind everyone of.

On topic though, I don't know if attacking all the quests is the solution the economy needs.

Might want to keep in mind those Community Guidelines you always love to remind everyone of. [hauls out popcorn]

I think rather than drastically adjusting quest output, Subeta needs to focus on more high-end content for players with larger sums of sP to throw around. The antique shop and sP pet slots were a good step in the right direction, but obviously those alone aren't enough. Not every player wants more pets or specific old event items. (Subeta doesn't have levels, but imo sP is comparable to a level system. Someone with a few bil in their vault has reached 'level cap' and is going to have a totally different perspective on game content than someone who logs in once a month and thinks 5mil is a lot of money.)

Right now there's a HUUUUUGE disparity between the 'average' casual user and a dedicated player, and between a dedicated player and a long-time user who might have hundreds of millions or even several billion sP. Nerfing quests doesn't help that disparity, it just makes it harder for low-end players to catch up while not really slowing down the sP accumulation of high-end players.

In fact, Subeta has at least one system in place that's basically ass-backwards in terms of keeping players on a more even footing, and that's the vault interest. A new player might get a few hundred sP per day, but at 3% interest a billionaire is making 100k. (Thanks for the correction ! I'm super duper bad at maths when I'm sleepy. D: ) That adds up to a lot per year that they're making that broke players aren't.

I agree that the value of sP needs to be maintained, but imo quests aren't really the problem. Most players aren't going to complete every quest per day, and for those that want to spend the time they should be adequately rewarded for the hours of work that takes. The devaluation of sP instead has to do with things like the lack of in-demand sP outlets vs CSC or other currencies. (Hell, in some ways I suspect Subeta's love of currencies has helped tank sP because many players would purchase holiday or quest shop items with sP if given half the chance. Forcing participation is all well and good, but sP purchases require some amount of participation too.)

Interest is a yearly percentage, so 3% a year, not a day. You need like 1.2-1.3b to get 100k a day

I think this post sums up my opinion on the situation best.

As well, I think that there is a large disparity between casual and new players, and richer and older players. Nerfing quests only serves to hurt the underdog and possibly drive away users. I think that more sP sinks are needed to entice some of the richer players to spend their sP. If there is nothing to spend on, people will not spend.

I'm not a pet person, I don't battle, and I'm not interested in old plot items. I would, however, be possibly interested in expensive wearables. We need more sP sinks that change and appeal to a wide variety of people, not nerfing quests.

I agree that sP sinks are the best solution. The MC needs to be turned into a department store so it sells books, food, plushies and beanbags, stickers, weapons, wearables and miscellaneous items. The stock needs to be added to regularly because it won't be much use if it's just one or two items every three months.

We definitely do need sP sinks, good long term ones, like I've been advocating for all along, I agree completely. However, that doesn't seem to be happening, and meanwhile hundreds of millions of sP is being created every single day with no way to reliably be taken out of the economy. Until something is implemented on the other end, that is taking out at least a sizable portion of that, there needs to just be less. And while some of those sP sink ideas are good ideas, what we really need is something that people will be buying everyday, most especially those with hundreds of millions and billions of sP to burn. That's how to keep money flowing around and out. Of course, there hasn't been a feasible idea for that as of yet in this thread or any others. A long term viable sP sink can't be something that someone only needs to buy once even if its 300m worth of pet slots. We need something people are spending lots on every single day. Again, when you make 1m sP profit from quests, you've generated likely at least 3 times that much sP from nothing. Sure you spent 2m, but that stayed in the economy in other players shop tills.

Adding a set of wearables 2-4 times a year wouldn't be too bad I wouldn't think? Instead of adding new restockable items that usually head towards worthless after awhile, stick some new items in the MC? I do see what you're saying about these items coming out of another part of the site though, but if people want a sink, I think MC wearables would be more effective than new restockables.