As I already clarified, I was not blaming you or anyone else. As a volunteer for the site, I was attempting to balance both sympathizing with Heather's point of view AND trying to understand the site's actions. I apologize if my wording was confusing. I'll be sure to follow up with Heather via sMail, so as to avoid further misunderstanding.

I for one don't really care for those coupons, as they don't worth it much anyway unless you are the kind of person who buy lots of items in bulk and lots of csc pretty often.

Tough I found it sad that the staff of Subeta think that rewarding clients isn't a nice approach for a business, should I point out that many stores reward regular clients. I could agree that coupons might not be the best way and that there i surely some better ways to rewards people who buy CSC, but I do think that it's a nice thing to do.

Also, like it has been said before, it's hard to keep wanting to support Subeta with there is so many lag and problems in here, especially with promises not delivered after years.

This. This is exactly why I refuse to buy CSC from this site, even when I can afford it. There's no evidence that any of that money is actually going towards maintaining the website with exception to the art, and if I remember correctly, a number of artists aren't even paid in real money, they're paid in CSC and have second jobs irl, so that doesn't even count. I have no desire to throw money at a site if none of that money is actually going to go into it.

It seems a lot of people feel the same. I think taking away the coupons is going to hurt a lot more than having them ever did. You're going to need to give people as much incentive as you can to get them to buy CSC when they know damn well it's not actually helping the site.

i understand you aren't blaming us, but that's really no excuse. if they're 'shrugging their shoulders' simply because we don't care anymore, then they need to stop and take a look at why. i mean, a pet revamp, to use your example, is something new, something that actually impacts the community, unlike these promises, which i'm sure many users don't even know about with how often they've been swept under the rug. even this issue with the coupons is dragging a few more people out, myself included, because it's another platform to use in voicing our disappointment, but i was tired of it two years ago and i'll get tired of it again. :/

Quote by Aztec

But it also seems to me that incentive to change is rather limited if, seemingly, your own customers don&;t seem to care about any changes.</h2>
<p>If people don&;t care enough to gripe OR voice support, then no wonder that, seemingly, the site proceeds to act in the best interest of the business and shrug in return.

How is that not saying that it's essentially our faults that nothing changes because we don't make as much of a protest as we used to?

Aztec I agree 100% and the further clarifications from Twocents didn't help much. This is getting crazy.

- I do feel that makes a good point with your response. It might have been directed towards a friend, but as with open forums, anyone can interpret another's commentary. It is incredibly draining to see very little changes to Subeta after so many years. I've been a member for 7 years, and while there have been improvements, there are consistent flaws. In particular, the struggles the site goes through during events. It's routine now. An expectation that is nothing just headaches and a valid source for these types of threads. Where does all the donated money go becomes the question on all our minds till things finally stabilize, the unrest dies, and then it begins anew with the arrival of the next event.

Hate to nitpick but none of the money is donated. It might seem like it because we're not getting any physical goods for our money, but we're not donating. We're buying a product. A virtual product, but buying it none the less.

- Sorry, old terminology. I realize it's not donated, but I use to buy "Donation" presents, so it's in my mind is all.

I see what you mean. Calling them 'collections' now makes sense in that context.

- Mhm! I thought the change of naming the monthly bags was a wise choice since they aren't donated but purchased items!

Wow, just wow. There are so many valid points being made here - almost none of which are by the staff themselves. Bravo, Subeta. You never disappoint, considering this is the sort of BS we've learned to expect. ^_^

Seriously... back when I joined in 2009, the site seemed to be running amazingly well. Before all the fuss about custom wearables - we were even given ways to earn a little bit of free csc on the side. Of course that feature is long gone. Why do you even have the "earn csc" tab anymore?

Back before I received a monthly disability, I almost never had the funds to buy CSC. Now that I do, I still counted on that little discount here and there for things like monthly collections which I'd buy in bulk.

For the most part, I've kept quiet when other users badmouthed the way the site was ran... but honestly? It's just getting worse. I understand that bills need to be paid. I understand that a crapload of money goes into keeping things running quote unquote 'smoothly' (hah, as if) but where are the hundreds - surely thousands of dollars you make off the CW features and the like? God knows I've contributed a few hundred myself.

After reading all this and pondering, Id like to throw in my bit. Please bear with me, it may be a bit disjointed, I'm suffering from a severe tooth ache and have been medicated for your protection ;)

It kind of sucks that we don't get to use coupons. I liked the staggered system, where larger purchases were rewarded with a bigger percentage. That provided a nice bonus as well as incentive for people to buy larger amounts of CSC at a time, myself included. I feel this is a bit like the travesty of the bank interest, where we were told that don't really "deserve" a bonus and after a while, its suddenly yanked away with no explanation.

Really, though, staff doesn't necessarily need to justify their actions to us, especially in financial matters, just as we aren't really ones to demand things from the managers at the grocery store when a sale is over and the price suddenly goes back to what it regularly is. We don't hold stock in subeta, and aren't privy to how the finances are distributed, nor should we be. I'm not saying we should just sit back and go okay whatever and throw money at them, thats careless and irresponsible. Asking questions and offering solutions puts us and the staff in general in a unique position, as if we did have stock holding leeway in the company. In the end its their choice, hopefully with respect to our feedback.

As for a solution ? What about a rewards card, spend x amount over, say, six months, receive y bonus. Keep the bonus low, in line with more traditional rewards cards, in the 1-5% range, MAYBE 10% but I wouldn't go over that.regularly. I know many people like the bonus item when you buy credits or a set, thats another good idea that should be stuck with. Please, please please keep the occasional and black Friday sales though. I look forward to them every year.

There was something else I wanted to touch on but it has escaped me and Ive been sitting here for a really long time.

Oh, right. I haven't spent as much on subeta in the past few months and to be truly honest is has more to do with my financial situation at home and less to do with how the site is run and handled. I pay for what I feel is worth it for me to pay for, I decide on each item and each set on its own merit, with less thought about will this go to hire a good programmer or to use a reliable hoster and more is my money with these pixels ?

Don't be afraid to ask me to clarify, but it might take a while okay.

I just wanted to say that I think many users on this board are completely on point, and it's really discouraging to see staff duck and dodge at boards like these. I've been here for close to three years now, which isn't much compared to some, but I've seen people sigh and give up during that time, and I've pretty much fallen to that attitude myself, which is just sad. Because I do love this site, but I literally have no hope of it ever becoming what it ought to be.

And re: the actual coupons, I actually dislike the bonus items, etc. given out instead of coupons? Don't get me wrong, the art/items are great, but rushing about trying to get those items is a real pain if you can't afford the CSC that month, or if they come out of a way you can't use. (There is not a single Frilly Arm Warmers available for sale, for example). Whereas coupons are a direct gift to the buyer without discouraging the rest of the userbase. (Yes, yes, we can't have all the items etc etc. I know. Still.)

I think my opinion of the site, it's business acumen, and management is pretty clear, so I'll just say this: last I checked, Agoge isn't actually legally incorporated at a current address. The Virginia registration auto-termed, no record in California (one address pop, but no actual encorp), no record in Illinois, Delaware, etc. Unless there's a fairly new DBA in place (and even that would pop in some searches) or the incorporation has been moved to an unrelated state or country (that isn't Delaware), Subeta doesn't appear to be kosher at the moment.

I could certainly be wrong, but I did do pretty fair due diligence. I even searched a paid copy of D&B/Hoovers.

I think that speaks to everything above and then some.

I rarely say much on the forums these days, but yeah, I felt the need to say a little something. I don't even really care about the coupons, but it does irk me a bit that they won't be available anymore. I buy things very occasionally from the site, usually buying exactly how much I need, with the occasional splurge to get a coupon. Even then, the item(s) must be something I really want (these days, it's most likely a CW), and even then, I often think twice about it. Why? I've been here almost six years. I know people have been here longer than that, but I feel that's long enough to have become quite tired of issues with the site and, now, just shaking my head when I experience an issue. When I first joined, there was lagging, horrible lagging that was almost constantly present and then the millions of down times. Over time, this has calmed down quite a bit, but it's still there ... after almost six years. I used to spend a good bit in the CS, not only because I loved the items, but because I wanted to help the site and it's staff to make the site better in the future. However, I've become curious as to if my money is even going anywhere toward advancing the site and making it better. I mean, I shouldn't log onto the site, experience a bunch of lag, and instantly know that an event is starting/going on. It makes me want to just check and see what's going on and then log off because the lag is bad. Shoot, going to the free shop ... lag beyond belief. Then, let's not even mention the bank interest or the cults and recode ... what is going on with that stuff? I know many have probably said this before (or, at east, think it), but CWs have to be bringing in a good chunk of change. Seeing as I remember hearing/reading that some staff weren't even being paid with money (not so sure if they are now or not), how is the site suffering much loss just from a small discount? I mean, iirc, weren't the discounts larger or something not too long ago and then reduced? Is there really not enough in the ... budget to allow work or extra work on these things to actually get them fixed and out there? Or is any of that even being worked on, anymore? As a company, I know you don't have to actually tell us this stuff, but then it's hard to want to buy things and support the company when I'm so unsure if the money is honestly doing anything.

Why take away coupons when the percentages can just be nerfed? Randomize the chances of getting a coupon. For every 5 purchases, get a coupon for your continuing support.

There have to be better alternatives besides just eliminating it altogether.

Ooh lookit the passive-aggressive defensive tone going on here! Staff is miffed.

I've never spent real money on Subeta and I totally understand the frustration of the users who have. The real issue is much bigger than CS coupons.

I'll be honest - I don't really care about the coupons. 5% is not a big enough discount for me to care, as someone who never buys enough from the shop at one time for 5% to make a real difference, and I would never feel comfortable dropping $50 on fake clothing (a personal problem, not a judgement on those who do or a statement that it's not worth it) - I didn't know about the 20% coupon, which I would have loved to have, but since I never would have bought enough to get one... who cares. Not a big deal.

And I understand that coding, especially from the ground up for a site with as many features and users as Subeta, is going to take time. I would really like to hear say yes, it's still in progress, just to have some reassurance that it is in fact going to roll out one day. I've seen screenshots, but those were old by the time I saw them months ago, and a bit of an update would be nice! I also understand not bothering to try and spruce up what is fundamentally broken while this recode is going on - I could also understand not replacing the servers, if the staff feel like the 502s and the lag are a result of current code instead of the servers themselves. That's all fine. New servers wouldn't fix that.

And I'm sure there are many, many users who would agree with everything I've just said. I've never met a userbase so dedicated to the well-being of a site. I love Subeta, and I would love to see it with shiny new code and fast servers, which is why I continue to buy CSC when I can afford it - but I also look at Gaia, which I left after many, many years and lots of money, because it had turned into a festering pile of shit that only cared about getting me to spend more money. I didn't feel like the site cared about its users as anything more than wallets with keyboards.

I don't feel that Subeta is that bad, nowhere near; you're redesigning old items, frequently releasing new, free clothes, items, pets, pet colours, etc. I really do appreciate that, and I appreciate feeling like I matter as a user of this site. I'll continue to purchase CSC and frequent the site as long as I feel that the money I spend goes to support the release of free items as well as paid items, but please understand - users look at where they came from, at Neopets and Gaia, and we look at where this site may be headed, and we worry. We're looking to hear that you still care about us as people who love the site, not just people who can give you money :/ and I personally haven't seen that addressed.

This is the sad truth of it. I spent 3+ months just trying to get staff to FIX THE FREAKING ALERT FOR PET LEASHES RUNNING OUT and guess what? I gave up. It still isn't fixed. It will probably never be fixed. And this is a cash shop feature that would actually benefit them if they fixed it, because people would see the alert and spend more csc to renew it right away (instead of noticing a week later that their pet is missing from their forum posts).

On the main topic, I don't really care about the coupons being taken away since I almost always use Ultimate Game Cards, and there was never any reward for those. I can understand how it would be disappointing to lose them, though.

[edit] Speaking of things not working, it took two attempts to post this due to CloudFlare errors. |D And another four attempts to make this small edit.

I would love to see the site fixed more than anything else, I can understand not giving a timeframe for the recode because I work with a database for a living and I know how much easier said than done doing anything in there is (especially when things have to be exact, and exact things don't just happen it takes time and research to get things exactly as they need to be). I can also understand not wanting to put much effort into patching up parts of the broken current site because eventually it'll be wasted time.

However a dying site today effects people more than a perfect site eventually. If events such as the free shop are going to cause the site great hardship, then why have one? If the site couldn't handle the intensity of the back-to-back plots and events of 2013.. why do them? Why not keep them all simple and say "the site can't handle what we had planned, we're sorry but we'd rather have the site running smoothly with simplistically than crashing and lagging so bad that no one can enjoy or even participate in our big plans." and then just keep the events in stasis until the site can handle them???

That's what drives me nuts about subeta. Everything seems to be getting left broken or partially fixed or duct taped together until the recode, and then we get a huge massive event to distract us and it ends up doing more harm than good and crippling the site if not killing it. Then we think about the money we've spent on the site and nothing ---from where WE as users stand--- ever improves or gets fixed (yes I'm sure in the background things are being done and fixed or will be fixed with the recode but what users see and what staff sees are apples and oranges so from the outside trying to look in, nothing has changed) and people lose faith and stop caring.

I buy shit on subeta because there are aspects of the site that I really enjoy and it makes my happy. I never used the coupon codes, in fact I've always deleted the 5% and 8% codes as soon as I got them (really 5%? and 8% would be uneven and ugly), so I really don't care that they're being done away with. I would like to hope that the money I'm giving to subeta is going towards making the site more functioning however once the money leaves my hands it belongs to subeta.

Subeta can't tell me "Andrea you better spend that csc on a gold accounts and collection items or I'm going to send you passive-aggressive events until you do", and likewise I can't tell subeta "hey that money better go to paying someone to fix this error that's making me mad".

However I do really like the idea of loyalty something or other with the cash shop. I enjoy the news posts mentioning "this weekend get an extra __% when you buy csc!" especially when it's via UGC/paypal/other options so EVERYONE who supports subeta can get a little extra csc which was REALLY unfair with the coupon codes.