I like the nit-picking and ignorant bliss of whole posts going on in this thread. I feel like an interviewer talking to a politician. Never get a straight answer

Mostly I'm just commenting on what I can / feel comfortable replying to. I just honestly don't feel comfortable talking about staffing publicly, so it leaves out a lot of things to respond to. I've stopped commenting on topics relating to the rewrite because it only adds more anticipation / necessary for us to move on it faster.

Not everything that we're asking about is staff related though, is it? How can we be expected to put money into something when promises have been broken over and over again? How can we keep putting money into Subeta when we've been waiting for things from almost the beginning of the sites creation? There is no evidence of our well earned money going towards anything of use to the site, just empty promises and flawed temporary solutions. The fact that you're admitting to not wanting to comment on the forum/cult revamp just makes everything even more ridiculous.

People will not put money into Subeta unless there is a change in old, broken things that have needed to be fixed for years. We aren't stupid, mindless sheep who won't ask questions. The userbase is frustrated and want answers before we make more commitments, before we soak up more "coming soons" that last another two years.

Starting on January 1st we will no longer be giving out coupons for regular purchases of cash shop credits. None of your existing coupons will expire and will still be useable going forward.

^ This needs rewording and clarification then because it's kind of confusing as to exactly which coupons.

Don't you think it actually is necessary for us you to move on it faster? After all, you've been using it as the carrot on a stick for as long as I've been a member (and longer by the looks of things). If a real business did this, they'd probably be out of business by now.

I don't like that the coupons are being discontinued. I can't buy CSC very often because I'm a student, but when I did and got a coupon I certainly appreciated it. It was a great way to reward users for buying from the Cash Shop.

I really hope there'll be a new program in the future for users who frequently purchase CSC. Right now, it just seems that Subeta, as a business, doesn't care about its relationship with its users. We are told far too often that certain things "are in the works" and will be "coming soon". I think the users have been fairly patient, as we've been promised certain things (revamped cults, site recode) for years. Yes, people complain, but most still stick around. I'm surprised there wasn't more of a fuss than there was in regards to the issues with the servers. After we've been told time and time again that the site is supposed to be faster and that new servers will be an improvement with time proving that to be false, we just don't have much reason to trust what we're told.

I will agree, though, that in all instances I can think of, most people aren't thrilled with thinking there's a carrot in sight only to find it being kicked out of sight again, and a business's ability to weather the ensuing storm seems to vary as well. But you can hardly say that Subeta's users on the verge of rioting for this, or much of anything recently. Can't say I blame them for doing what is in the best interest of the business especially if the majority of customers aren't even slightly riled up about the changes.

I don't consider subeta a real business on par with any of the small businesses I know IRL. It may be a business on paper, sure I'll admit that. But as for running things in the way people would expect a real business IRL to be ran, it falls miserably short.

Say you went to a small business in your town that had a huge gaping hole in the roof. And the business owner said oh hey man, we will totally fix this big hole in the roof as soon as we make enough money to fix it. And the business owner comes up with something pretty neat to sell, that makes a whole bunch of money. And then a year later the big hole is in the roof still.

That is how subeta is ran. We've been promised better servers would fix our 'big hole in the roof', we've been promised a recode that would also fix the hole in the roof. Custom Wearables have been insanely successful, bringing in a ridiculous amount of money. And yet, the hole is still in the roof.

So no, I don't consider subeta a real business that I take seriously.

And you're right, hardly anyone is riled up anymore. That is because most people have finally stopped caring about the site and it's empty promises. Hardly anything gets the number of posts it did a few years ago on the feedback boards unless there's an interesting bit of drama to go with it, or the people who like to argue are really bored that night :0)

See, I think for those of us cough like me, who never have spent money on this site when we see that things never seem to improve, it doesn't make us want to actually start buying CSC! I had probably one time that I was really close to actually spending $20 bucks (this was when those game cards came out) but as I stood there in the store looking at the card I thought over what has been promised, what needs to be fixed and how long it had been broken, what the users who actually spend money on here are complaining about not getting fixed, and you know what? I replaced that card and said to myself, "There is only one other game site I'd rather spend my money on. They actually fix issues instead of just stringing the user base on while still pleading for more money."

Really, I have yet to even have a good reason to spend money here. Even my "supporting" by buying CSC from other users has fallen. I'll still buy it but now it's mostly to top off my GA. I'm not going to use any of the chance machines/the vanity sets/hair magazines because I hate them. The trunks are my love and even those the art has been disappointing in the latest ones. I used to buy at least one donation collect a month and now they have to really wow me/be something I really need for a TC to even make me want to get one.

So yeah, I think I've just gotten into a I don't really care anymore mode about the site. I just come on to quest and kill time.

this. it sounds bad, but even before i left two years ago, it was hard not to notice how many people brought up these issues and were more or less ignored, or got the same answers i'm seeing now. really, it isn't that users aren't bothered, it's just many of us aren't on the forums to complain, or we just don't see the point.

The coupons were the only real reason I would buy more than 20 dollars worth of csc at one time. Now I'm not going to buy so much at a time, just whatever little I need. Which isn't much anyway.

Don't forget the fear of being called an entitled brat! Any CSC-related complaint used to be met with those types of remarks and I think it's made a lot of people unwilling to comment at all. Not just about CSC but about any type of dissatisfaction with the site in general.

people aren't "riled up" because we've slowly been grinded down by having our expectations lowered again and again to the point that whenever something like this comes up, only a few people can muster up the energy to be upset, while everyone else just shrugs their shoulders and says "well, that's subeta for you" because we've come to expect this level of service.

@ mattie @ PoeticEnigma

Errr, sorry about the double-ping! This was originally a double of my last post - the site went down as I tried to submit if you can believe that. Mods can delete this one if they want.

Maybe 20% for every purchase over $20 was a little much, but I don't think it should be rid of altogether. Maybe 10% for every $100 (not in a single purchase, but cumulatively)?

I hope the other plans are ready to go as soon as the coupons are taken away on the 1st. If not, it will create this awkward gap (and tension). Does one person decide this or does the team decide this as a whole?

Ah, that makes more sense. I know some people still have this image as as a teenager, when that's not the case anymore. It's not a bunch of children running the site.

As I've commented in the past, it is saddening to me that people look at site problems -- like lag or obvious glitches -- and just give a tired eyeroll and shrug it off, because "that's Subeta for you." But it also seems to me that incentive to change is rather limited if, seemingly, your own customers don't seem to care about any changes. I haven't been on the site for ages, but with my forum setting at 20 posts per page, I feel like three years ago, a board like this would be at more than three pages. If people don't care enough to gripe OR voice support, then no wonder that, seemingly, the site proceeds to act in the best interest of the business and shrug in return. Heck, lovely pet revamps get more outrage, and pet art doesn't protect the site from lag. :P

People don't kick up a fuss anymore because they're tired of it. They're tired of kicking up a fuss and getting ignored, or getting the same answers over and over again, and nothing gets changed.

You're basically saying that it's our own fault that site issues aren't getting addressed, and we're telling you straight up that the reason we don't bother anymore is because consistently nothing has been done. To constantly protest is to beat a dead horse on this website. Nothing ever gets done whether we say something or stay silent.

You can't tell us that it's our fault that nothing happens, that change is limited if we don't care, when we're all saying that we're burned out. We've done our protesting, we've made boards about it, we've tried to keep the issues in the spotlight. But nothing has changed. It's the same thing over and over again.

I'm not blaming you in the least. I'm just saying that my reaction is pretty much a shrug at this point, like yours. And when everyone's just shrugging at each other, it's not surprising that changes are just taken in stride and things just stay the same. How is that saying it's your fault that things haven't changed? At no point did I say you, or anyone else, was at fault for the way a business you are not involved in runs.

ETA: It might help to explain that and I are friends, so I can shortcut my thoughts with her. :P That's why my posts are directed to and in response to her, no one else.

Quote by twocents

But it also seems to me that incentive to change is rather limited if, seemingly, your own customers don&;t seem to care about any changes.</h2>
<p>If people don&;t care enough to gripe OR voice support, then no wonder that, seemingly, the site proceeds to act in the best interest of the business and shrug in return.

How is that not saying that it's essentially our faults that nothing changes because we don't make as much of a protest as we used to?