TBH I am not surprised that coupons are being done away with (even if it's just temporary). It didn't seem like a very good business practice to me to ALWAYS offer such a large discount. It would make a lot more sense for Subeta to offer coupons/discounts sporadically throughout the year...

THIS bothers me though (but does not SUPRISE me).

VOTING FOR THE SECOND OPTION.

I thought Subeta learnt from its mistakes with promises it cannot achieve, but guess not. We keep being promised things and yet, nothing changes and worse, it feels worse to me that it was last year.

Perhaps people should put an halt to submitting CWs and buying from the cash shop until the recode? Because right now, I don't even feel I am paying the site to improve, I am a feeling I am paying for luxuries that have nothing to do with the site.

I've been here a long time. I remember the first time I mailed off a check made out to an individual (I think it was ) and waited for days to see if I'd been scammed or if I'd really get CSC. I remember when we were first able to purchase CSC online and it took hours to show up. If we didn't receive it after 24 hours, we were supposed to file a ticket. Today, nearly instant gratification.

How about The Reset, when we lost so much hard work? Anyone remember how much we lost? Days or weeks? That was enough for me to take a break. I almost quit. I'm glad I didn't. Now, if there were to be a reset, it would be minutes.

Nobody likes lag. I remember an event where I would check every five minutes to see if I could get my click in. Each page, when it would load, was taking several minutes! Usually, it would time-out. I was getting less than ten page views in an hour. An hour! Lag now? I can actually complete a battle, do some quests and, yes, even load the Free Shop, in ten seconds or less when the site is laggy.

Site down? Used to be down for HOURS multiple times in a day. If I see that it's down now, I'm bummed, but if I come back five minutes later, it's back up.

Everybody loves coupons. I don't like seeing them go, because I like to feel like I'm getting a deal. But, I'm also not going to let myself fall into the trap of thinking that Subeta is only ever going to take my money without seeing anything in return. I've seen a LOT of improvements in this site over the years. Playing now is such an enjoyable experience, because I can get more than ten clicks in. There will always be room for improvement and every time they make one (like quest revamps), I'll wonder how I lived without it.

I see where we came from and I am grateful for where we are now.

I recall several months ago during a live chat I asked Keith about the status of the recode, regarding on how behind the "company" (side note, I have always suspected this mythical company was more or less just a friend or friends of staff/Keith) was on actually completing the recode. He said at the time that it was "pretty much just subeta staff" working on it at that point.

With the numbers of CWs being submitted in multiple batches, it's not a stretch to imagine the site has made probably close to a million dollars (number that someone figured above was what 400k? That would just be for single batch submissions.) And we have nothing to show for it (in that the site has not improved at all in that time period). Reduced staff, increased (insanely increased) income, there's pretty much zero legitimate reason in my mind why staff cannot sit their collective asses down and actually get the recode done in a reasonable time period. Deadlines exist in real world jobs. If subeta ever wants to be considered a real legitimate business, it really should learn how they work and actually stick to them.

Re: Twocents, I think a few folks misinterpreted what she was saying and how it was meant. Remember that minimods are volunteer positions, so it makes sense that she if she wants to keep her job, to try to defend the company she 'works' for, regardless if she feels that way. IDK if any of you work retail, but when a customer at my job complains about a company practice, I can sympathize with them and maybe even agree but I cannot trash my company. So, look at her comments through that lens :)

I really think the most fascinating aspect of this thread right now is this, I know it's been quoted already but it's worth quoting until it's answered:

No wonder he won't discuss it on site, what can be said that won't make staff look worse than they already do with regard to this?

I vote for the second option there too! lol

I knew users would get a coupon for buying a certain amount of CSC but I never realized it went up that much! I always thought it was more like a buy one get nth% off a second item.

Shay: 6 years, 8 months, 1 week, 2 days and I don't remember ever having an event with out the issues, site lag, crashed, glitches. ect. It just really feels after so long that nothing really matters to staff (I'm hoping it does) since nothing changes. I wonder why another site that , yeah, may not have the same number of users can fix server issues and bad coding, even fixing when someone accidentally deleted the whole site and had to rewrite a bunch of code :o within a week while subeta chugs along like that old lame horse you really should have put down before starting your journey but you're now unfortunately stuck with it no matter what.

I really think that as soon as it became apparent that the coding was failing that rewriting and actually fixing it should have been the number one priority, drop everything else. Need users to stay and spend money? Or get newbies to stay and spend money? Subeta could have already been a happening place today years ago. Instead it's like you're dragging us along like some sort of social experiment to see how long before we crack and give up. You've had so many years of already knowing that patching wasn't working all too well. Yes, I know all the work that has to go on to get the coding and make it work. But really, after this long it just seems like there really should be a light at the end of the tunnel. Unfortunately all we see is that tunnel either never ends or someone bricked it up years ago.

Also, yeah the site has come a long way in how many users it can handle and not going down anytime a fly farts in some far flung place. We still seem to be taking one step forward and stumbling back a few feet all the time. Look at shiny new thing! that will distract you from the other glitch! :D:D:D months go buy Hey why is [glitch] still going on? insert shiny new distraction What glitch? We fixed it already. [users] No it's still happening. rinse and repeat

Want to know why I will not refer anyone here? It's a mixture of, all the shit we're complaining about and past things/attitudes of staff over certain things. I've been here to long to not want to expose friends to this.

And on that, sorry of this is jumbled. I just woke up and have a hard time putting my thoughts down.

good gods my typing also sucks when I just wake up XD

The speculations on how much money Subeta takes in and what it should spend its money on are precisely the reason why businesses (and individuals) don't share these things. I'm not saying that Subeta is making good use of their funds, but I'm also not saying they're not, because I don't know. And I don't need to. Because each one of us would have unique ideas as to which expenditures were appropriate. Maybe they started paying their staff higher wages. Maybe they've started a savings account and slush fund. Maybe they are working on the recode. Maybe they've invested it. Maybe they've snorted most of it up their noses.

I would be ok with most of these things, but others might take offense to some of them. Why are you spending money on _________, when you could be spending it on _________? The fact is, all of those things above, except the nose candy, would be great things for the business to do. They have to have an eye to longevity and stability.

Running a business isn't as simple as taking money in and turning it all into exactly what the customer wants. When you own your own business, no one else picks up your insurance or 401k. No one else is investing in your pension or your PTO. You have to juggle your needs and your customers'.

I see a lot of people say that they'd rather not have any events or new art or redraws, etc. etc. until the site is "fixed." Basically to put everything on hold until the recode is done. I may be the minority in this thread, but I doubt I would be on site, by saying that I would hate this. I am no coder. I have no frame of reference for how long this would take. I am nearing completion on a project that was supposed to take me six months and, instead has taken over one year. Not because I wasn't working on it, but because it turned out to be a much bigger animal than any of us predicted. In the meantime, I continued to perform my regular duties and the occasional extras. Because, if I hadn't, I probably would have lost my job. You can't just stop everything else because you've got a big bear of a project. That's not a good way of doing business.

Everyone here thinks we want a recode, but let's be real, we don't know what that looks like. It could turn out to be a total nightmare. So, let's drill down to what we really want...no lag, no downtime, no broken or weird pages. They've actually made some real strides in this direction. These things have come a long way. No, they're not perfect yet. Every time I look at the achievement page, I feel frustration and when I'm really feisty, it's, "OMFG, why isn't this fixed yet?!"

So, when threads like this pop up, I totally sympathize, because I am a user just like the rest of you. But I am also an employee, a supervisor and I have a small side business, so I see that other things go on behind the scenes that aren't necessarily malicious. And I choose to be grateful for all of the improvements that have been made.

I still have ONE 10% Cash Shop Coupon to go! Mail me if interested :D

Edit ALL GONE!

Why LOL? It was simply an illustration of certain things that aren't handed to you as a business owner. So, part of your good business plan should include planning for the future. And customers will have their own ideas as to how that money should have been spent. This was an example that business is more complicated than, "You got all this money, so where's the recode?"

I see how what I typed could have been understood as a comment on the "look" of the site, but it wasn't. What I meant is that none of us know what it will be like. It might change certain aspects in a disappointing way. And, what we really want is for things to run smoothly. I'm not a coder, so I could care less if it's a total recode or changes here and there, as long as it improves. My point was that those things that have plagued us for so long HAVE gotten much better. Not perfect, but much better!

While you are correct that in general, many businesses worry about those sort of things, Subeta is not one of those businesses. So bringing them up in a discussion about Subeta and the way it's being managed with regard to finances just seemed funny to me.

And provided the recode simply fixes things that are broken, there is no reason anyone should be disappointed. No one will miss lag. No one will miss getting a page that says that the site is down when they try to view someone's wishlist. No one will miss being asked to log in over and over when they want to use their wardrobe.

Perhaps part of the problem with getting the recode done is that too much time and focus is being spent reworking aesthetics when it's not necessary?

And yes, things have gotten better. As they should have, when you consider how long they have been fixing things (That is a news post from September of 2008!). There is still a lot of room for improvement though.

I just woke up, so please try to bear with me. I can't speak for anyone else, but that is NOT where I'm coming from. I want nothing handed to me. I want nothing I didn't earn either through work or through loyalty. Most of the posts here aren't saying we deserve it, or that we're entitled. Think of it this way. I live in America, so if this seems a little skewed to outsiders, again -- bear with me, haha. We work, we pay taxes. We are given money in exchange for our work, but some of that money is also taken for the betterment of the place we live. Potholes are fixed. New roads are constructed for the ease of the user base. In addition, things like cigarettes and alcohol are taxed. We have some laws about where those taxes go. No company I can think of takes 100% of the profits and does nothing for its customers. More than two users have suggested cumulative coupons. Extra CSC on a purchase. There are tons of options we have given that companies do every single day.

We don't want Subeta to go under offering us free things. That is completely counter productive. I know I just want two things from Subeta: 1) Recognition, 2) Change. I don't want promises or more carrots. But someone to step out and go "You know what, we see your points." I don't even want to be told I'm right! But the avoidance and hockey puck slush is driving me over an edge.

It does make sense! 8D Another thought to add to that; remember when Keith said he didn't want to bring back the CS Boutique for the Black Friday sale? Because then it would suggest to people they could just wait all year? To me, this makes me think of just saving my money until the coupons come back around. When I'll be able to spend 50$ then, or more, and just hoard it. Isn't this going in the direct alley that was unwanted?

One thing I think is being over looked is time. Subeta has been a website for 9 years. When we were shuffled over to this website, I'm pretty sure it wasn't a full recode -- like we'd been promised. People can feel free to correct me on that. Money cannot fix everything. It cannot make talent or time appear. It cannot make bugs go away. BUT. Money can give people a cushion to work only on that part of the site. As posted previously we were apparently told there was a whole TEAM on this. We have been told new features aren't being added or fixed BECAUSE of this recode. And, in case anyone is forgetting, we've had some live-touchable parts so far. That? That is bloody fantastic. But why on earth are we just getting them now? It seems like Keith is the only poor soul working on this. If that's the case, tell. us. At this point, just some communication with users would be absolutely mark-your-calendar worthy.

In the past, when we're communicated with, we shut the eff up, haha. I have seen people defend Subeta tooth and nail over topics like this because we were being communicated with. We knew what was going on and we could handle it. That's gone now. I can't remember the last time I was told something about this site that didn't turn out to be an empty promise that was then pointed out and never recognized by staff.

- I'd like to just comment on your first post here. I was around for all the crappy things you experienced, and I concede that things are slightly better, but those improvements aren't good enough. For how long as it has been, the site should function better. With more users and the addition of CWs, the site just does have more revenue and for all appearances, it seems that money isn't going anywhere. We're not seeing improvements like we should be seeing. Events are laggy. Hell, the Free Shop opening last week is a good example that the site just isn't right. There is only so much duct tape that can be used :/

I know that when was on staff, she was helping a lot with the recode (and fixing things for the site when users made them apparent, and generally being amazing). She hasn't been employed here in many, many months, though. :c

Like a lot of others, I'm pretty sure the new site development has come to a grinding halt. |D I don't even care if we get one, honestly. I'm just tired of hearing "we aren't going to fix this/etc because the recode is coming" when the recode is nowhere on the horizon. Can we just fix things now instead of putting them off for later? :( I wouldn't mind if we got few or no events for a while, also, because I find most of them to be draining and tedious (and the payoff is usually disappointing).

My point all along, is that it HAS gotten better. A lot better. Even the news post that linked to states that they decided to start working on bits at a time instead of one massive rewrite and that it would take a long time. Everyone keeps saying that they want to see some changes and improvement, but there have been! I have never once said that the site is perfect. I think it has a lot of room for improvement. But, I also think that's what makes it so gratifying when they do roll out a new change and we look back and wonder how we muddled through the old way. And some things get fixed right away. The Free Shop was a nightmare at first this year, but it was fixed within a couple of days.

I'm not trying to be the almighty defender of Subeta, just, call me Pollyanna, wanting people to see things through a more positive lens. The way I choose to view Subeta makes my experience here more rewarding. There have been changes. Good ones. If we want more changes, I've found that it usually helps to focus on one at a time. But things like lag aren't going to be fixed with one change. It was helped with the changes to purchasing from shops. That was a HUGE change in lag time for me. People aren't acknowledging the changes that have been made, the slow march of progress, just because it's not perfect yet, even though some of these bigger changes have been made just in the last few months, and that is what prompted me to post. I feel everyone's frustration, because I get it, too, but there HAVE been improvements.

Communication is a two-way street and the way we communicate makes all the difference. If we post on the forums that nothing ever changes here and we can't trust anyone, it would be far too easy for the people those remarks are directed at to simply shut down communication. Because it's not true. For feedback to work, it has to be constructive. For communication to work, there really should be some sort of positive acknowledgement of what both parties have done to make the relationship better. Threads like this seem more like big rants, rather than constructive feedback or communication. And that makes it easy for Subeta to ignore, thus negating the effect everyone was hoping to achieve.

I'm going to try to roll back a bit, because I do see where you're coming from. There have been big improvements. There have been things that have changed to make Subeta tick better. I don't want to belittle those, and I apologize if I have. I love Subeta just as much as anyone. I can't think of anything that has made more people stick to it for 5, 6, 7+ years other than Disney movies. Subeta does a LOT of good for people.

The thing that frustrates me. The reason I'm ranting is not because the site isn't moving fast enough, or the recode is taking too long. I'm not pointing at those things as causes. I'm pointing them out as side effects. They are not the root problem. The root problem is the carrots (I really love this analogy and I can't remember who started it -- but go you!) we've been fed. The things that are done to distract us from the issues we have had. Just as you aren't trying to be an almighty defender, I'm not either. I want both sides to win. I want Subeta to roll in money and I want users to feel snuggled and happy and prance around with rainbows shining out their bums. But for both sides to win, both sides need to acknowledge each other.

Subeta has never had a problem giving a talking-to to users that step out of bounds. For goodness sakes, USERS often curtail other users who offer things that are not constructive. We've tried construction. We've given other ways to do this. We've given reasons why this is a bad idea. We've told why we prefer it the other way. We've given examples of companies and what goes on in them. We are trying construction, but the longer our construction site is ignored, the more it deteriorates. If this thread stays on topic, it will middle off into no where because staff will most likely ignore it. To be frank, posting on these is usually for naught because the communication of the other end is rarely open. Even though we're sitting here. We're trying. I just want to see that from the other end.

Give me a recode or don't. But please, just stop ignoring the fact users feel like we have a problem.

I get it and I think we feel the same about a lot of these things. I think the "carrot" was something that was dangled out by people who 1)honestly thought they would be able to get it done quickly and with trumpets and fanfare from Subetans, and 2) we're trying to keep up a friendship and coolness factor with customers. I don't think this was done maliciously. It seems to me more like a mistake that a young business makes. They let the cart get in front of the horse. Only, because we have such dedicated users who love the site so much, we never forget that carrot and we have screenies, lol. I get it. I really do. And I often feel the same. But for me, personally, I love playing here and staying grateful is how I maintain my satisfaction with this website (and so many other areas of my life). That's all I was saying. Not trying to negate anyone's feelings. Just saying, in a very long-winded way, how I handle it for myself.

I get why the coupons are gone and I do acknowledge that improvements have been made over the years.

A detailed financial breakdown is not only unnecessary, but invasive. More transparency on the business and technical fronts though? That would be awesome.

At this point any mention of the recode or the general tone of many staff posts regarding any constructive feedback is just a complete and total joke though.

I also don't need really see the need for people to rush to the defense of administration if they can't be bothered to speak for themselves.

[edit] Typo from typing too fast. ^_^;

This a million times. I feel like one of the chief reasons staff do not bother to directly answer valid questions brought up in threads like this, is because they know it's only a matter of time before someone (usually multiple someones in the past) will nominate themselves as the grand white knight of subeta. Usually the words that get bandied around are "rude, entitled and impatient". Examples of staff actually doing their job are held up and lauded as fantastic achievements instead of expected business practices. Comparing the stone age of subeta to 'modern era' problems, seek to minimize the frustrations of players currently. It's old and tired.

Subeta staff are grown men and women, who by now if they wish to be treated as such and not the teenagers they were when the site was founded (including the BUT THEY'RE TRYING GOSH coddling), should address these real concerns directly and without a free gift to smooth over everything. This whole thread really isn't about the coupon codes being taken away, it's more about another example of staff ignoring customer feedback and still expecting the cows to come in to be milked.

You know what sad about this new post? Look through the comments. Look how many posts are like "YAY OMG FINALLY I'M SO EXCITED!!!' from users who are no longer here. I think that in itself speaks volumes.

Now, onto the topics at hand.

1. The news post should have been handled MUCH better. It should have stated from the get go that there will still be rewards, just not for every single purchase. I think most of us are big enough to understand.

2. Users wouldn't be questioning the cash flow if we knew what the status was on things. The recode thread in the GA forum (which I also have issue with. That shit should have been in general discussion for EVERYONE to see), its last updated post with new information was on December 7, 2012. Over a year ago. There were a few more replies from Keith after that, and then nothing. Even when pinged to the thread for information updates. So I'm going to go ahead and assume by WHAT I CAN SEE, this hasn't been worked on in almost a year. Quite frankly, that's unacceptable. If there was an issue, we should have been made aware. Sitting here waiting and waiting with random posts of "we don't give time frames (because we couldn't meet a deadline to save our souls)" just aren't cutting it. Did the company that was hired quit? What happened to the work they did do? Are we starting from scratch for like the third time again? I don't think these are unreasonable questions.