Vault Interest

August 20, 2015, 12:40 pm by

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I personally feel that moving the CSC requirement for autotraining to a higher sP requirement would be a much more favorable and beneficial sP sink than a flat shop tax

I second this! This would be super convenient for a (somewhat) rich battler like me.

It's funny tho', I've made a greater effort to buy from NPC shops rather than user shops ever since this news update. To 'sink' SP from the economy. Huh.

August 18, 2015, 7:31 am by

Saggi had been nerfed but was back to normal after 2 days because you couldnÂ´t get a noticable reward and many users were even losing sp to him (myself included, you greedy piep XD). ThereÂ´s some continuity now. I always make 800.000 - 1.000.000 sp each day from Saggi.

I think Cynthia was nerfed to give out more sp because I always make noticable profit during her quests for over a week now. Quentin had been nerfed to not give out more than 3 mage amulets. But he must have been nerfed again. Yesterday I got 6 mage amulets during 15 quests, today I got 4. Could be a bug though. I donÂ´t know it. The others havenÂ´t changed, I think.

All in all my profit hasnÂ´t changed much. I still get ~ 2 mio. sp each day from quests (and a lot of good items which are another ~ 1 mio. sp).

August 18, 2015, 6:50 am by

But I've heard from users here and there that Quests have already been nerfed.

August 18, 2015, 6:29 am by

wrote [...] is a bit of a nut punch we don't deserve.

The tax is not about what users deserve/not deserve. It is about what is necessary to keep the site running and the worth of sp. It would be wise to see a tax not as punishment. It is not meant as one. Their are two possibilities to keep the worth of sp and inflation low: controlling generation of new sp (for example nerfing quest and game rewards, removing vault interest...) and/or controlling sp leaving the site (for example a tax, raising hustler payment, old items in the antique shop...). The second option seems the better one because everyone wants to get paid for doing work. I donÂ´t want to imagine the shitstorm users will provide if quests and games would be nerfed...

August 18, 2015, 3:36 am by

Also, I thought I would add this in here as well... I don't really care about vault interest, but please, don't add a shop tax. Those buffs are going to be fazed out, and unless you're planning on bringing back shop haggling, I think a shop tax on top of the vault interest being lost is a bit of a nut punch we don't deserve. Restocking has become hard enough as it is, with a shop tax added, it'll be even harder to turn a decent profit.

August 16, 2015, 7:58 pm by

I wish they would put a cap on it rather than just get rid of it...

August 16, 2015, 7:58 pm by

"this is one of those things that we brought over from Neopets without really thinking about it. "

If you all really did think like this in the first place then why introduce the worthless Morty Cards? Why not just ditch it the first time around.

Whatever, I notice Im not coming to this site as often as I used to. Too much change recently.

August 16, 2015, 4:08 pm by

Also, maybe a reason some people have so much sP in the vault as to generate sooo much new sP by collecting their interest as I suppose is the disaster here is because there are few valuable reasons to spend sP, especially compared to currencies like CSC and WT's. Sure, you can use sP to buy these other currencies, but maybe releasing things in the MC rather than the CS and things of that ilk would work better than doing away with the vault interest. I really don't think that the interest is the problem here... (Also, as mentioned before by , inflation is NATURAL. I believe the Fed aims for 2% or so a year? As bad a thing as hyperinflation is, deflation isn't exactly great either.)

August 16, 2015, 3:57 pm by

I understand the need to minimize the amount of sP being put into the system, but I am still really disappointed about the loss of interest. I am not the richest nor the oldest user, but collecting the interest I do get has been something that encourages me to log on every day and I like seeing the amount change as I deposit/withdraw sP. I think valuable, positive sP sinks would probably go over better than negative ones like this and taxation, but ah well. Nothing we can do about it, I guess.

August 16, 2015, 2:16 pm by

Too much sP being created and not enough flowing out is something that most people who understand economics have talked about before. Not everyone agrees in the ways to fix it, but most agree that it's a problem. You're saying that quests are being devalued when in fact they've been overvalued. They basically guarantee a hefty profit for bare minimum effort. They have recently been reformulated so that the item and the sP prize is near guaranteed to give you a profit, which means that sometimes you're getting 50-100k pure sP from a quest. The constant influx of sP means that each individual sP is worth less overall because EVERYONE who is questing has more. This means that quests, as they are now will devalue THEMSELVES over the long term. However there are some ways to fix this, even without touching peoples precious guaranteed easy profits like I would like. One of them is by imposing a small tax on user to user purchases. All this does is help balance out the inflow and outflow of sP to the economy which helps keep it more stable. It has absolutely nothing to do with the site owner being greedy, it has to do with the site owner understanding the economy of his own site. Clearly there is a vocal minority of people who just absolutely don't.

Saggi's quests where changed just a few days ago and give almost guaranteed profits, quite a bit in fact. Perhaps you need to just be a tiny bit selective in which quests you do. i.e. dont do quests with 4 50k items that are all 70 rarity... Overall he should be giving quite a hefty profit if you pay close attention to both item rarities and total cost.

Well said, that applies widely across the site I'd say...

August 16, 2015, 12:16 pm by

Its really easy to ignore dissenting opinions, assert that your opinion is not only the popular one but the only one, and then proceed to bash the site owner. I would highly suggest you think before you type, because it just makes you look like a spoiled child who feels slighted and isn't mature enough to think clearly. There are arguments against some of the actions Keith makes, just like how every issue has people with differing opinions that are justified. However, the trash that can be spewed by entitled owners is the real pollution on this site. The effects of moves like vault interest being removed are not done to ruffle feathers, and no business owner every seeks to piss off their users without just reason. Clearly Keith believes that the long term effect that this enormous flood of sP is having needs to be curbed, even at odds with a good PR with the users.

The funniest thing is that most of you want more input into the site but haven't the slightest clue about what you are talking about, whether it is site management or economics or what have you. Being a user does not entitle you to input on every decision staff makes, to be incredibly clear. That would be the same as a person owning 5 shares of Apple stock wanting to have direct influence on executive decisions.

But watch, ignore what I'm saying and take this conversation into a different direction. The reality is the reduction of sP creation will have long term effects, not realized directly and not right away. If you can't conceptualize that, I can't help you. I don't know who can, but such a simple concept apparently isn't grasped too well around here

August 16, 2015, 12:58 am by

Bingo! The only one I EVER see whining about how there's "too much" sp on the site is Keith. The site economy runs JUST fine without ridiculous sp sinks and continuously devalued quests. What I absolutely loved about Subeta was that you actually made enough sp off of questing to save sp and train pets. But now, it's going further and further away from sp and more and more towards csc. His "fixes" are pushing Subeta towards a Neopets standstill.

August 16, 2015, 12:19 am by

This totally sucks. First they decrease quest rewards and now destroying the vault interest. For the 1st time since I started playing Subeta, I just LOST SPs doing Sag quests. I rely on SPs from quests and interest to help pay for my pets training. It's to the point where it's almost not worthwhile doing Sag quests any more. Never thought I'd say that.

August 15, 2015, 7:53 pm by

None of that makes any sense as a problem and lots of those points are contradicting each other... The problem is too much sP being generated, the solution is things that take sP out of the system, and creating less sP to begin with. Most certainly both in a way that doesn't discourage activity or discourage people buying csc with real money or with sP because that's what keeps the site running, period.

August 15, 2015, 6:12 pm by

Okay okay, point taken :P

August 15, 2015, 5:57 pm by

Keith's huge "issue" is with how much sp is floating around ruining the site economy. So he tries to create things for people to spend all their sp on. But he fails to realize a few things. First, MORE sp has to be generated before it can be spent- that's pretty damn obvious. Second, the more time goes on, the more sp is generated just as a matter of course. That means more people are playing and interacting. A GOOD thing, not bad! And third, he always tries to introduce CS items for people to try and buy, but that motivates people to make more sp to buy csc. More questing, more selling, more sp generated. No, it does not come out of nowhere, it is generated by activity on the site and every CS release creates a spurt of "OH, I want it, let's ge to earning/selling/ BUYING!" and a glut of sp. How is that flawed logic? NOWHERE did I say people buying csc with real money is the problem, I'm saying Keith's lack of understanding or caring of what his userbase thinks is the problem. He's obviously only motivated by money at this point, and it's a pity because he's flushing this site down the shitter

August 15, 2015, 9:08 am by

CS items released everyday? That's an exaggeration. This site is Subeta, I think you have it confused with Gaia Online xD

August 15, 2015, 9:05 am by

Tbh, this is probably a good idea, as the only ones who are really making profit are the ones with hundreds of millions of sP stashed away. It's been a gravy train for some for far too long, and I'm glad it's come to the last stop.

August 15, 2015, 7:10 am by

That "logic" is just so incredibly flawed. While demand on csc because of cash shop item releases does inflate the price of csc, that is the good kind of inflation that signifies growth. It does not however magically create sP out of nothing every time a csc item is released. If you're just implying that it causes people who can't just buy it to become more active and try harder to make profits so they can afford to buy it from other users, well hopefully you're right in that much and again, that's a good thing. I rather like seeing I'm not the only one actually playing on site. And then you're saying that people buying csc with real money is the problem? that makes no sense either, people buying csc are the ones keeping the site running. IF they weren't buying it, no one would have any csc, or sP or pets or items, because the site would have gone out of business. That is how things actually work. You can't just make up a bunch of theories on the spot, stick them together and treat them like fact.

August 15, 2015, 5:26 am by

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Once something is implemented on this site it&;s never taken away again,

Computer quests, Discussion forum, holiday shop, stock market, vault interest... Need I go on? :b

August 15, 2015, 12:07 am by

"everyone was actually right and I was wrong" Stupid fingers.

August 15, 2015, 12:00 am by

Once something is implemented on this site it's never taken away again, because Keith doesn't want to admit "Oops, hey lookie there, everyone else was actually wrong and my idea was dumb!" What needs to be done is CS items need to stop being released every freaking day. Because what happens then? Tons of people go out to earn billions of sp so they can buy csc that instantly hits the market. Nothing creates a flood of sp like CS restocks. People want to make easy sp so they sell what csc they have, or they buy some to sell, and people go EARN sp, and it creates a glut. Quit concentrating on the CS and you'd solve tons of problems. You make PLENTY with CWs

August 14, 2015, 9:53 pm by

Don't care about the interest - I make a fair amount because I don't spend all that much these days - but the taxes sound freakin' terrible.

August 14, 2015, 6:27 pm by

All you guys panicking, because of the tax... You do realize that, should this not work out, they can do away with it, right? Chillax.

August 14, 2015, 6:09 pm by

I agree with the suggestion of using auto-training as a potential sp sink. I also agree with the change; I think the only people collecting interest regularly were those with hundreds of millions of sp and up, and while I can understand their frustration at interest being a "reward" or "incentive" to saving, it really does put a lot of "unnecessary" sp into the economy imho. There's no requirement for getting said money except for...having money. (And hey, I like collecting my interest as much as the next person but if it helps to better the economy I think it's a great idea)

August 14, 2015, 5:39 pm by

Looking at the grand scheme of things, 3% really is no big deal to me, especially in respect to questing. Most of the purchases one does for quests will be small enough that tax is just spare change. It will barely make a dent in my profit. I mean, it definitely wouldn't be a big enough difference that I would have noticed if I wasn't aware of the tax cupcakes. And just in general, even for higher end items, market prices change all the time by more than that. This is just another instance of that, the shop prices once again changing, except that 3% will be leaving the site instead of going to another user. I'm all for this. I don't mind sacrificing a bit of sP daily to help the economy in the long run if it means my sP will be worth more someday.

August 14, 2015, 5:12 pm by

LMAO. Literally the last thing that kept me coming on to the site consistently after, I kid you not, everything else I enjoyed was completely fucked with. Well...

Laugh with me, here.

August 14, 2015, 4:00 pm by

I personally feel that moving the CSC requirement for autotraining to a higher sP requirement would be a much more favorable and beneficial sP sink than a flat shop tax (which, at this point in the site's existence, is never going to be popular, let's be honest)! I know I haven't been here long, but I've seen surprisingly few updates and revamps that benefit the battling portion of the site compared to the many awesome changes and additions that have been made elsewhere since I joined. Allowing users who have relatively large amounts of sP, but no realistic ability to spend money on CSC just for autotraining, to actually do autotraining could be a really cool thing... Although I don't exactly know how more experienced battle-oriented users would feel about that, to be fair.

Just a thought, anyway!

August 14, 2015, 2:23 pm by

While you're at it, I think you should retire/remove the "richest user" achievement. Just a thought.

August 14, 2015, 1:06 pm by

I don't mind losing the bank interest. I use my bank vault simply to save up enough sP for future item purchases my 16 pets can use. Things like csc gift cards, updating battle weapons, items for multiple pet treasure chests, pet training, expensive quest items, collections to complete and keeping up with the avatar wardrobe. The tax event takes away points I use to train 16 pets multiple times a day when I get to come in here.

There are dozens of ways to get sP moving in the game if we are given the chance. We all have different game goals that require larger amounts of sP to save for. Subeta is so addicting and we stay here in support of the site itself.

I have never asked to be rewarded with anything on here in all the 10 years I've been here. I obey every site rule to the best of my disabled ability. What more can we loyal members do to serve the site better?

If an sP sink for pet training is what you are wondering about how about this suggestion - Please take the csc option off the training school and let everyone auto train pets using the sP amounts listed per pet. I would definitely use this if it were possible. It's only a suggestion nothing more. I don't expect anything to come from it. Pet training and battling is one of the only reasons I have left to stay here.

If my sP is what you wish then please take it to do good things on the site. I would rather voluntarily give up sP to help the site than have it forcefully taken away by the Sebastian high tax event. If it will help the site and make everything all better again then I'm fine with it :).

August 14, 2015, 12:46 pm by

Ah! For me a wonderful case of "ask and ye shall receive". Though, I didn't mention it here, I have been lamenting over the fact that I have to type in so many number when I want to deposit or withdraw. "How nice it would be," said I, "if subeta points were worth more, so I wouldn't have to deal with so many numbers! Tsk. At the current rate, if sP were in paper bills, they'd be about so numerous, and worthless, you could paper your house with them!"

August 14, 2015, 12:46 pm by

Ah! For me a wonderful case of "ask and ye shall receive". Though, I didn't mention it here, I have been lamenting over the fact that I have to type in so many number when I want to deposit or withdraw. "How nice it would be," said I, "if subeta points were worth more, so I wouldn't have to deal with so many numbers! Tsk. At the current rate, if sP were in paper bills, they'd be about so numerous, and worthless, you could paper your house with them!"

August 14, 2015, 12:08 pm by

I am all for something to make the economy better. It be some form of "tax" or whatever you want to call it. sP needs to get purged out of the system.

I swear some people like to complain just to complain. Nothing seems to please anyone on this site anymore and honestly it gets old fast listening to everyone bitch about everything.

Why can't everyone just go with the flow? Yes sometimes changes suck and are not always for the best, but change is inevitable. I just sometimes want to tell you all to grow up. If it isn't one thing that pisses off the masses it is another thing, and they are usually small little issues that you all make a huge deal out of.

August 14, 2015, 11:52 am by

Gosh, I had to read half of this wall of posts just to find out what was the reasoning behind this change.

I would recommend you guys to post more info in the announcement itself instead of making the players dig up a couple needles in a haystack!

August 14, 2015, 10:49 am by

I'm also not too happy about this. The tax more so than the lost interest. As one user proposed, nice items would be a better sP sink, more easily acceptable, than taxes.

August 14, 2015, 10:25 am by

Should have been . Sorry about that. There's no edit on comments.

August 14, 2015, 10:22 am by

Tails, thank you so much for weighing in, and I believe you are absolutely on target. While I am hardly the oldest member, I do have almost nine years in, and we are worth much more than "so what-you discovered the site earlier." We did, but we have also been with Subeta through thick and thin, and let me assure you, if you weren't there for some of that history, it has been a colorful past.

It takes a lot to stick around for that long, and most of us have put a lot of support into that time. (Yes, that nasty old thing known as a "cash customer.") So, are we entitled to nothing? No, I don't think so. Just as a new arrival is entitled to a warm welcome and a chance to succeed, and those in the middle are entitled to effective ways to make sp and desirable ways to spend it, we who have been here longer are entitled to consideration, even if you find it "disgusting" that some of us express displeasure more than others.

Do I care about my interest? Not much, and, since things tend to go on a rocky path but then smooth with Subeta, I'm sure that will be true of the whole taxation problem as well, although that one will be a bit tricky to pull off well. However, I have to agree that most of these changes affect long time users the most, and, as Tails pointed out, we are significantly, and pretty consistently, the ones ignored. In the end, that's to nobody's benefit.

And 's idea of getting sp sinks by offering things people really want to buy is just plain brill.

August 14, 2015, 10:09 am by

The density of this comment string is unbelievable.

August 14, 2015, 9:55 am by

So quests are giving out less and less, the bank interest is being destroyed and now we'll be taxed on items sold in our shops? Well, the 3 ways I make SPs just got screwed. Thanks. Started liking Subeta less when they brought out the awful new wardrobe, now worse. :(

August 14, 2015, 9:38 am by

Bloody drama queens... i don't care that the interest is being taken away because i always forget to collect it, no big deal.

August 14, 2015, 9:06 am by

Let me throw my hat in the ring in saying I will not be raising my shop prices but in fact I will be undercutting those who do. See how long your raised prices are gonna make your items sit ;)

still luv u guys tho

August 14, 2015, 8:45 am by

Frankly, longer-term members are more likely to, and most likely have spend/spent more money on the site over their time. That has some value. It's not really about treating them special, it's about the fact that most of the changes affect those users more than newer users, and their voices are being significantly ignored.

Further, the Loyalty Boxes, if I could sell them, I would. I don't really use any of the options provided within. I have 4 sitting in my inventory. I literally used one simply to make space in my inventory. The prizes aren't necessarily useful for all users.

August 14, 2015, 8:00 am by

Also, I would suggest not having the "shop search fee" show in the shop log amounts. Have it show the price that the buyer paid in there, but only add 97% of the price to the shop till.

Then you can have a note just on the shop till page that says there is a 3% shop search fee that has been applied to items sold in your shop for under 5m (or whatever the ceiling is if a ceiling is applied). That would explain to anyone new coming on the site why the amounts they thought they sold their items for doesn't add up to the amount in their shop till. But it would also only be on a page that may not be visited as frequently and therefore over time would not be a constant reminder of the fee.

I suggest putting the note on the shop till page because I visit my that page wayyyyyy less than my shop log page. If the majority visit the till page more, then I would say the same suggestion applies, but just put the note on the shop log page instead then.

If implemented, maybe this even can be a GA perk? 3% shop search fee without a GA, 2% shop search fee with a GA (I think that's the same ratio as quests for GA vs non-GA, but it's early so idk).

August 14, 2015, 7:38 am by

- I was about to suggest the same thing. Along with the value cap (5Mil sounds fair), I'd also propose an item purchasable via MC or something where it would nullify all taxes on items for that one shop per day. This is a really high level concept, and obviously needs to be fleshed out more, but would avoid the "Malls" from getting defensive.

August 14, 2015, 7:35 am by

I'm against the, but for other reasons than those listed. I'm not too interested in writing a wall of text on it just yet, considering it is 7 AM. I will say this though. The arguments against it are, at the very best, incomplete, and at the worst, just wrong.

First off, let's just do away with the reasoning "I didn't like it in the real world so I don't like it here". You think you don't like taxes because you pay out money and never make the association to what is a tangible return. In reality, if you stop paying taxes your government ceases to be able to fund itself, then it borrows money at unsustainable levels because it can't have enough income, and then you end up like Greece, with Germoney, the IMF, and the ECB forcing you to swallow austerity. Rail against taxes all you want in the real world, but the concept of a tax is how we don't descend into anarchy.

My next point is that taxation on subeta has absolutely nothing to do with my point above. All I was implying is that taxing =/= evil. What taxing is on subeta is a consistent way to remove sP from the market. While I disagree that we need to go to this step right now, please stop with the over-reactive comments. No way in hell this 3% tax drives prices up to the point where you can't make money from quests.

A. The margin for profit on quests is something like 400% B. Most people won't adjust prices to make buyers swallow prices because they AUTOPRICE their shops C.The majority of lower scale items are quested/restocked and are worth many multiples of their initial value.

For example, you do a quest, pay out 6k, and get 10k in sP back, as well as a 20k item. 99% of the time, you're autopricing this. Demand hasn't changed, so items aren't flying off the walls, therefore no one can or is manipulating prices. Even if you aren't auto pricing and manually updating all of the prices, who the hell is going to sit there and assume that because they now have a 3% tax, they need to bump prices. You guys already offer like 50% price slashes in the advertising column if your new wig or dress didn't sell in the first few hours. Don't feed me that line that now this 3% will kill you.

The only people I would say it affects to any real extent are the massive shops for questing. Most likely, they will swallow the lost profit margin, because supply of those items will keep prices down, but even a slight bump in those specific values will be negligible in terms of questing, because you're already making like 3x your money spent.

So the two main arguments 1.) Taxes are evil and subeta is an escape for me and 2.) Taxes will inflate items so much, destroying quests, are both just mythical.

August 14, 2015, 7:31 am by

A 3% "shop search fee" (or something else that isn't called a tax but functions as one) is not going to kill quests. Even if prices in shops do rise by 3% to combat it, that's not enough to make quests unprofitable.

I know that 30k/1m spent in shops can kind of seem like a lot (although I really don't think it is), but you don't spend 1m on a quest. You spend maybe 20k on average, I would guess. If prices raise to compensate, you're going to be paying an extra 600 sP per quest. It's really a drop in the bucket that after time you'll barely notice.

Maybe there can be a ceiling on purchases that are affected by the "shop search fee" though? Now that shops can sell things for up to 100m, that could be a 3m loss on an item and could drive those items to trades (which I think kind of defeats the purpose of having the shop search limit so high?). I think a fair ceiling on items affected by the fee would be 5m. It's the same level that autoprices for free each day with a GA. That would still be getting 3% of sP out of "daily play" transactions while not making selling big-ticket items unpalatable to sellers.

Just my two cents - or rather my 1.94 cents, perhaps. ;)

August 14, 2015, 6:56 am by

And thatÂ´s the error in user (and your) thinking: in fact you areÂ´t losing anything because you havenÂ´t invested real money (minus CSC of course) or something material. When you first step on Subeta and make a new account youÂ´re getting a present. ItÂ´s the first gain where you had nothing to give in return. You are always gaining something (sp and items) on Subeta.

YouÂ´re just gaining a little less in sp numbers for a while but those sp are gaining worth in the long run.

August 14, 2015, 6:00 am by

*themselves. No one in their right minds would be happy with having profit forcibly taken without making their losses back through raising their own prices.

...and then it goes back to that 10 point list I posted earlier.

Yeah, no. Higher taxes + sP loss through it being forcibly taken through taxes will never = lower and better prices. It goes, without a doubt, against all forms of logic and economic mathematics.

August 14, 2015, 6:00 am by

Excuse me, it IS a normal thinking process to drop prices when items arenÂ´t bought. Most people think itÂ´s better to have a little less money than no money at all. And you cannot compare spending sp to spending money in the real world. First of all a lot of items a free stuff on the site. You are not losing anything by selling them cheap. You are always gaining profit even if it is just 1 sp. And second in the real world you are forced to buy a lot of things for living purpose for example food, clothes, gasoline and so on. People cannot choose to not buy them because they NEED them to survive. And this need is why prices donÂ´t drop in the real world. People will buy those things regardless the prices because they have no other choice. Nothing on a virtual pet site is needed for a continued existence. To not buy items does not affect your life in any way. So you donÂ´t want to buy something because the price is too high? You wonÂ´t. Therefore sellers will have to drop their prices because their items arenÂ´t things of necessity.

August 14, 2015, 5:43 am by

um sorry, but I do believe that that theory of yours is wrong.

Normal thought process:

PLAYER: "Wow. I'm losing so much more sP with these taxes. I have to do something about this and that means that I have to raise my prices so that I can recoup my huge losses."

Not normal thought process:

PLAYER: "Oh hey, I'm losing a bunch of additional sP through these shop taxes. I've tried to raise my prices so that I can recoup my huge losses but I'm not selling anything. Well I'm sure I'll sell stuff if I drop my prices. So I'm going to drop my prices. I just will be losing even more sP. It's fine though. I don't need it."

I mean, really? Look at today's economy! If taxes go up, prices go up! People aren't going just continue to drop prices if they're forced to pay higher taxes them

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Vault Interest

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