Vault Interest

August 13, 2015, 4:08 pm by

Taxing? Are you serious? =/

August 13, 2015, 4:05 pm by

I do have an honest question that I've been wondering for a while. WHY does sP need to be removed from the system? What is it about sP that's the issue?

Also... why remove daily interest but then add a tax on buying from user shops? Who's getting taxed? Will the person who buys the item pay the extra? Will the user selling lose the 3% of their profit? What's next, getting rid of the 15% savings buff? What about those with discount cards, will those be turfed as well?

Seriously though, I don't understand the absolute need to have sP removed from the system. If I knew why this was something that needed to be done I could possibly be more supportive of these kinds of ideas.

It's starting to feel like the average user is getting massively hit in the sP in the sites attempt to drain some of the richest users vaults when the majority of those users don't actually spend the sP no matter what. Has the antique shop helped at all? I'm sure those who have the most sP were around for all those plots and events that they got what they wanted at the time and don't need to spend the sP now.

August 13, 2015, 4:04 pm by

I've been reading some more of these comments regarding the new tax implementation. Personally, I was a little off-put at first, but the more I think about it the more I think I can agree with it. Granted, I think, that this is a temporary change. I don't think anyone enjoys the thought of having to deal with taxed user shops for the rest of the site's days. I think that after some of this excess sP is taken out of the system we need to focus on coming up with a better method for keeping the economy stable, such as perhaps nerfing the quests as some other users have mentioned.

I admit that since higher rewards for quests was implemented, I've found quests to be quite a bit more satisfying and comparatively refreshing. If they do get cut to help keep the economy stable though, then I'm perfectly willing to find contentment in working a little harder to get the items I want. I feel like this could also help give people further incentive to pay actual money on the site as well, just because it would make things a little easier if they did. But then again, I don't know what drove you guys raise the quest rewards in the first place. Could it have been that making money was too much of a task in the past, and the economy was actually losing too much money?

I don't know, I'm trying to consider different possibilities here but I'm not incredibly knowledgeable in this kind of thing. I would love to hear more about the ups and downs of different options, so I could better see the big picture and perhaps come up with some more original ideas.

August 13, 2015, 4:03 pm by

I actually agree with you. I just wanted to say that even if the money-related random events were to be lost, then another reason for the Vault to stay is psychological. Personally I rarely remember to collect interest, but I still bank my money, never having more than about 1.5 million at hand at a time. I think that it helps people with low self-control, such as myself, to avoid binge buying. Some people find it pleasant to have a couple of extra pageloads between themselves and their riches.

August 13, 2015, 3:53 pm by

Looks like I won't be getting the final Keeping Cash achievement. :P Oh, well.

August 13, 2015, 3:48 pm by

Also the interest was a little buggy and never really added up to anything, so good choice imo

August 13, 2015, 3:47 pm by

Wtf are people actually suggesting taxes? I play subeta because it's LESS like real life.

August 13, 2015, 3:44 pm by

I am actualy really excited about the tax idea. A more stable economy helps the entire site :)

August 13, 2015, 3:44 pm by

I would hate to see what happens to you guys in real life when something doesn't go your way or upsets you if this is how you act over virtual money. that literally does nothing for you.

August 13, 2015, 3:35 pm by

Taxing shops is the unwisest thing I have ever heard of,I feel like a lot of players would be uoset by that. I do however support your idea for rewarding people who login daily and think this would be a great way to reward faithful players so long as the rewards are decent and not just crap.

August 13, 2015, 3:29 pm by

what if you just capped the max interest or something at like 5k-10k? then new users would be able to get the interest that they probably need b/c i sure didn't start off rich the tax also makes it hard on them too and is annoying af i mean, my money is still gonna sit there regardless just bc i like it there and don't see anything i need to buy as i don't play very seriously anymore i used to buy csc and gold accounts but their prices have gone up exponentially and i am very very stingy

August 13, 2015, 3:26 pm by

slow clap feels like neopets

August 13, 2015, 3:24 pm by

A 3% increase on items in user shops would not be the end of the world by any means.

August 13, 2015, 3:22 pm by

Just saw a comment about taxes on selling items. My internet was down all morning so I just logged in and don't have time to read through 260 comments especially since I only have a few minutes on lunch break. But yes if the seller has to pay tax on items sold then I will be raising all my prices as soon as it goes into effect. And not buying hardly anything if the buyer pays the tax. :(

August 13, 2015, 3:22 pm by

So very glad to see these changes roll out. Of course, I'm one of those weirdos that hits 250 mill and reads that as a sign that I need to buy things on my WL, since that is the point.

Having a system where you rewarded people for a service never made sense to me. At this point the bank's purpose is much like the vaults purpose, to keep your money safe from the bad events or on site happenings. (Sebastian for sP, zapping for items, etc.) Subeta doesn't use your money like real life banks do, they get nothing from your hoards and if anything it's actually hurting the economy because the sP is sitting there not moving. Inflation is happening and it's bad. As Phillip wonderfully stated, all those hoards are losing value. So yes, rewarding people for keeping their money safe = nonsense. It's like going up to someone and offering to be their body guard and paying them for the pleasure. No.

Very glad to see bank interest going. I am curious about one thing though, if we're getting rid of Phoenix's tax events and going to a shop interest do we need sP banks at all? I mean, I'm trying hard to think of another thing that "attacks" our sP but.. I don't see one at this current state of "I just woke up and haven't had coffee yet". At that point we may as well just always keep it out, yes?

August 13, 2015, 3:20 pm by

I was about to ask "does this mean the Morty Cards will be turned into something else?" and look at that, the first comment answers my question! Thanks, Keith!

August 13, 2015, 3:18 pm by

Sorry but I don't understand. The vault will no longer function as a bank for SPs? WTF? I use that interest every day to help pay for my pets training. This totally sucks. :(

August 13, 2015, 3:17 pm by

IF THE SUBETA VAULTS WERE LIKE REAL BANKS then we would have a saving and chequeing account. We would get interest on our savings and would pay a monthly fee based on however many predetermined transactions we did each month. Go over your limit and you pay more for the privilege of being able to do those transactions. We would have debit cards so we could spend are money without having anything on hand. If you wanted just a savings account you would have to pay a fee each time you made a transaction. THAT'S A REAL BANK.

REAL VAULTS... You need to have a key to get into it AND a staff member would also need to use a key for you to get access. AND YOU DON'T GET INTEREST ON YOUR VAULT.

NOTHING ON SUBETA IS "REAL".

August 13, 2015, 3:15 pm by

I guess I am disappointed, but I understand. I don't mind spending the extra Sp if there are more ways to earn it.

August 13, 2015, 3:02 pm by

Hah! Never used that feature, so good thing it's going away.

August 13, 2015, 2:59 pm by

Oh good grief. I was around for the stock market. Things change peeps. Get over it! Stimulate the economy, spend your sps. What good are they to you in the vault... guess what... NOTHING... even when there was interest... you weren't enjoying them. This is a game. Play it! If you don't like it. Freeze your account and go play neopets. I'm sure there is NOTHING to complain about there.

rolls eyes

August 13, 2015, 2:52 pm by

Also, added by the SITE, not the sit. Apparently typing is not my forte either.

August 13, 2015, 2:52 pm by

Quote

It would be built into the price. If the item is listed for 1 million in a user shop, it will cost you one million.

Does that mean that the seller is paying the tax, then? So like... A. I list a balloon in my shop for one million. It shows in my shop for one million, someone buys it. The 3% (or whatever) tax is taken out of what I earn, so I only get 970k in my till? OR B. I list a balloon in my shop for one million. The 3% is automatically added by the sit, so it shows in my shop for 1,030,000. Someone buys it. I get one million in my till.

I'm hoping it's B. And that I did this right. My forte is balloons, not math.

August 13, 2015, 2:47 pm by

Fine, I can get over losing the interest even though I actually liked collecting it every day and seeing it go up enough to hit milestones like 30k or more. But taxes? I can guarantee I would not spend a single cent on this site ever again. Not all of us make money by questing, nor do we have the time to do all of them every single day. I really only do Shinwa's, Quentin's, and the battle quests. And not even those every day. The only reason I have as much sp as I do is by selling items I've gathered over the years I've been on this site, either through events, games, or buying CSC. 3% isn't small, either, if you're trying to sell something at 50mil or more. If you're trying to counteract the sp generated by quests, then nerf quests. Don't punish those of us that don't even use that feature.

August 13, 2015, 2:45 pm by

Sad to see this go. I look forward to my daily interest. But, I would never argue with the powers that be. Keith knows best for the site. I trust in him.

August 13, 2015, 2:44 pm by

But I feel that even if it's built in, users will still raise the price to combat the tax and it will just make items altogether more expensive. I'll use deviantArt as an example. dA has the online currency of points. $1 = 80 points so it is a fixed currency; we know how much points are worth. But even that has become inflated because deviantArt provides a widget to users that will let them set up a commission page at the cost of 20% of what they get paid (which isn't fair but that's a whole other story lol) Rather than users taking the 20%, they have all bumped up their points to where $1 now = 100 points so they still get the amount they feel they were supposed to get. Now people buying commissions now have to pay that extra 20% on top of the price it should have been at first. Users buying a $5 commission now have to pay 500 points instead of 420 which is what it would have been without that dividend taken out. Over charging to get back what they would lose otherwise. I worry this would happen with subeta if the tax was put into place.

August 13, 2015, 2:41 pm by

oh no im going to miss that 4k and less i get per day.

current Interest Per Day: 3,103 before i go on my next spending spree.

August 13, 2015, 2:41 pm by

How cute, my first comment was deleted. I didn't target or call anyone names and the only bad word I used was shit.

August 13, 2015, 2:39 pm by

However, the subject of a tax is where I draw a line as well. That is a very, very good way to make me stop playing.

August 13, 2015, 2:37 pm by

It would be built into the price. If the item is listed for 1 million in a user shop, it will cost you one million.

August 13, 2015, 2:36 pm by

Oh no, what ever will people do without that small amount of sP. Most users don't really make much off of interest. It's really not that big of a deal (kinda sucks but oh well). Oh, oh, you mean people with 1b+ are whining ? Cry me a river and I'll toss you a stone. Or get the shit over it and realize you already have more than enough that you don't spend.

August 13, 2015, 2:33 pm by

I am fine with the removal of interest, it's the taxing I'm not fine with. I feel like unless you're good at math, say you want to buy something from a user for 10 mil. You save and save until you get that ten mil, and then go shop only to realize you don't have enough sP because it's going to tax you on top of paying a lot for an item.

Taxing on NPC shops is fine, I can go with that. But I can't get on board with taxing user shops because, as someone else said, the users would simply up the price to include that percentage and then the buyer is going to be out of even more sP.

August 13, 2015, 2:32 pm by

Morty Cards, I'd forgotten about those! lol While my first reaction was, "hey, no more interest? :O", after thinking about it, it's not a huge deal. I can make more with one good wizard quest, plus tokens.

I do have to concede that old extremely rare items becoming available again does bother me, not necessarily for the value, but the items were kind of symbolic of how long we have been here, and things we managed to accomplish or do. Years ago I purchased 2 of the kumos plushies with unique item codes for my daughter and me, but those unique items are no longer! For years my daughter was so proud to have an item almost no one else had, but now it's buyable. Those sort of things, I am not happy about.

August 13, 2015, 2:27 pm by

Quote

if we add a new sink / item that we want to be expensive we have to consider the number of users who can just buy ten of them immediately without blinking an eye for something we want to be a "hard" purchase.

Why the worry about people buying ten of Expensive Item X if it's still taking sP out of the system? If it's because the items will deflate then how about more sinks that sell intangible things? Think the pet slots in the MC.

August 13, 2015, 2:19 pm by

All I'm reading is that most people forgot or just didn't collect.. so why take it away from the people who do collect it. Seriously guys!

August 13, 2015, 2:09 pm by

This notice only make me says "what the heck is going on here? i have to remove all, i have to done something?" Im not active too much in the site because im a bit bored, i was trying achievements and someones becomes bug after use the "put in wardrobe" option when buying the item for the achievement. I gived up so i only check news about the "strange gray syndrome(that name i give it to them)". But... seriously, i really dont go to read 400+ comments, but someone can give me a resume idea of what is going on....i thank you for ever....

August 13, 2015, 1:57 pm by

Thank you for being one of the very few games in existence that takes an active role in regulating the economy. Stuff like this just makes me want to donate more!

August 13, 2015, 1:57 pm by

After reading all these comments, I have to say this. To me, its the whole direction this is going in. Having my account almost 9 years, I have seen a lot of changes. Some good, some not. To me, it seems like the older accounts are getting lost in the shuffle of these changes. I have seen the newest being, no more interest. I also disagree with the giving free items that we earned years and years ago. Is that not a perk of having an old account, having something special? The last free item I have had since 2006 and held it because it was an item that no longer was put out. Now 8 years later, its offered again. Why did I even bother holding mine for 8 years? The newer people say its not fair. Well it is considering I have been on this site for so long. My kids actually got me on this site. To me, it lacks respect of us who have been staying with this site so long. I am sure many will disagree with me but its OK, I am entitled to my opinion as you are.

August 13, 2015, 1:51 pm by

Perhaps it would have been a good idea to go ahead and come up with some new ways to give us money before you announced the retiring of bank interest. That way the community could have at least tried to have a rational debate on what they think is best, instead of just this mess of people threatening to pull their funding for losing some of their free money privileges in a game.

I mean really, I've only read a few of the comments and the way some of these people are reacting is downright ridiculous. "We are the minority, but we give you money so obey us!" Like what the hell? We get enough of that from reality, guys. They're going to replace the vault interest with something else, so as far as I can see the only reason for you lot to complain is because your losing your power trip.

Personally, I can go along with this change. I am an older user and I do enjoy watching my bank interest go up like some of these people have, but by the same token I can't say that I enjoy watching it go down when I take some money out to use it. I'd also have to say that I myself have felt like the bank interest system seemed really arbitrary and out of place, not to mention like a downright weird thing to do when you're trying to control inflation.

August 13, 2015, 1:48 pm by

omg i love you.

August 13, 2015, 1:47 pm by

Subeta isn't real life. We're pumping billions of sP into the system daily from things like quests which generate sP. Considering the average income daily for quests can be 2-3 million, I don't think a 3% tax on user shops earning is going to break anyones bank.

The goal isn't to cancel out the profit from quests with a tax, the goal is to take some sP out of the system while sP is coming in, and figuring out how to do that in a fair way. In the example of sP coming from quests a lot of it doesn't leave the system because sP is just moved around between users. A small tax on that sP makes it much easier for us to at least remove some of the sP. I'd like to point out that this isn't a novel concept, pretty much every online game taxes the auction house / trading center / methods that users use to trade with each other.

And that isn't true. It means if we add a new sink / item that we want to be expensive we have to consider the number of users who can just buy ten of them immediately without blinking an eye for something we want to be a "hard" purchase.

August 13, 2015, 1:47 pm by

I'm with . When they removed those annoying captcha codes on every single item, I've started buying from the main shops way more. The outdoor shop is great, I sunk thousands into that and that went poof. VAT would just.... Encourage inflation. You add a 3% VAT, prices are gonna go up 3%, cause people selling want to make the same amount.

August 13, 2015, 1:47 pm by

Taxes?

More the reason for me to NOT spend much sP

August 13, 2015, 1:45 pm by

Late response - just got around to reading the reply, and it sort of made me laugh.

I'll put my first response here: "Also, the rich getting richer has absolutely nothing to do with any of this. If you have 30 freaking billion, and collect interest daily, you are making just slightly more than questing income. Do not confuse the rich hoarding their precious sP because they have nothing better to do with inflation caused by too much sP supply and not enough sP demand. That's driven by the most basic users, as they generate, by far and away, the most sP. Keith just can't touch their income because he would probably be attacked on sight for the next few months"

The irony is I consider myself a relatively wealthy user, and so far I've been smart enough to be hoarding appreciating assets because I know that sP is losing value. When you reference things like "our" and imply that I don't know your plight of losing the equivalent of half a Mage amulet a day, it comes across as condescending. Especially when (if my math is right), you have about 1.8 bil in the bank.

The thing is this should be something relatively rich users should be championing. This isn't class war fair, I like having sP and I look at the people with a lot of it as people who worked hard and smart for it. But with such large sums literally just sitting there, it's actually losing value incredibly fast. CSC prices are up like 10% YoY and since buying power of CSC has remained relatively constant, it means that the buying power of sP has deflated by about the same. Your 1.8 billion is now worth 180 million less in terms of its ability to buy what you want.

This is why I have to remind myself that most users don't look outside their tiny box of what their account is doing, and what things will directly effect their value. Rapid inflation hurts users with huge pure reserves. That's the people who I'm assuming you're lumping yourself into.

August 13, 2015, 1:43 pm by

I think there are better ways of removing money than taxing user shops... I never have /enough/ money, and I feel a lot of users are like that. I have so many items on my wishlist I feel I'll never finish collecting them all, and taking away more money that I do work for... meh. I mean, it is a small amount, but I think encouraging people to buy from the site in some way would be better than taxing user shops.

August 13, 2015, 1:40 pm by

Yes, which is why I don't see how you can remove one while implementing the other. Especially considering the real life comparison you're using. So the goal of the VAT would to make the input from quests be cancelled out by the VAT? Then why bother with quests? :x I do quests to make sP which I can use to buy things. The shops that require thousands of sP for an item you can buy whenever are good for getting sP out of the system, cause that is gone. As for people hoarding their sP, the millions/billions they have in their vault collecting sP is sP that isn't being used, therefore not really in the system.

August 13, 2015, 1:37 pm by

And that's why having the npc shops show up in shop search is great, often items needed for quests are in stock so a bit of sP is actually sunk when I do quests.

August 13, 2015, 1:36 pm by

As someone who gets 42k a day in interest, I totally support this. I also support the coming taxes (though I think I would prefer if they were only on NPC shops, but whatever). Both of these take money out of the system in different ways. Removing interest is turning off an sP fountain, where taxes are an sP sink. Just small things to help fight inflation. :) Glad to see some of the counter-inflation suggestions are being taken seriously.

Also, a possible daily reward? Hmmm, guess I'll wait to see how that works before passing any judgment... and MAN am I glad I had at least one morty card laying around. Those prices shot up crazy fast. o.o

August 13, 2015, 1:31 pm by

The opposite of interest is a tax, though. We'd be taxing small amounts on every purchase, in order to remove some basic sP from the system. The problem is that when users purchase from each other in the user shops, nothing is actually removed from the system. If you're doing a quest and you're asked for three items and you buy them all from another user not only has some sP been generated (quest reward) but none has been removed, just moved around.

August 13, 2015, 1:29 pm by

We're encouraging users who've saved up all of their sP to spend it there. We want users to spend their sP and remove it from the system, not save it up and collect interest every day and leave it in their vault. Both of these changes (the antiques shop & removing interest) are in service to that goal.

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Vault Interest

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