POLL: The Future Fate of Foreign Words - CLOSED
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Hello - sorry for the multiple pings today - it's been a great day for me to catch up on a lot of things.
As some of you know, there have been some recent concerns regarding foreign words in items. I wanted to both acknowledge this, as well as present a poll for you guys to decide the fate of foreign words in item names going forward.
First and foremost, I apologize for any confusion that has been caused by this. I already went over this quite a bit, but some languages are hard for me because I know/speak them, so my brain doesn't read them 100% as foreign words. I go "Oh, I know what that means!" and I accept it. I am trying to do better.
Second, it is literally impossible for me to know every single name I've accepted in the past. At the time I'm writing this, there have been 55,445 CWs reviewed (and 45,438 approved, for those of you that are curious). I would say I've had a hand in at least 75% of those 55,445 items. That is a lot of items and a lot of names! If something was denied in the past and is accepted now, or vice versa, please know that it is in no way an intentional decision to hurt someone. I always welcome feedback! You can submit a ticket to discuss things with me, and I promise it will in NO WAY have any impact on your account or your standing with CWs.* I honestly love talking to you guys, whether it's on the forum, via ticket, in Discord, etc. I love constructive feedback. I welcome it! (*The exception to this is if you submit a ticket that is literally just screaming and swearing at me with personal insults. This is not tolerated by any member of staff, and will result in your ticket being closed without response.)
Third, I'm giving you guys a choice on how to handle this in the future. The queue is already done for today, so I have created a poll that will close this Sunday, March 21st prior to working on the queue that day. The poll can be found below:
Essentially, you have two options:
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No foreign words will be accepted in CW names going forward. There will be no exceptions to this. While past items will not have their names changed, all future submissions, including recolors, will not be able to contain foreign words. We will allow recolors of items to be submitted with a different naming convention to accommodate this. (NOTE: No exceptions means exactly that. There will be no exceptions. Even if it is something that exists on-site in an official capacity. Only words recognized by the Merriam-Webster US English dictionary will be accepted.)
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Foreign words will continue to be allowed in CW names, and you are acknowledging that these will be decided on a case-by-case basis. There will not be a list of pre-approved words, since such a list would be essentially impossible to make. You are acknowledging that because of the sheer number of CWs already on-site and submitted every day, that some items that may have been accepted in the the past are denied now, and vice-versa. If this happens, you are more than welcome to make a ticket and discuss it, and we will consider allowing exceptions.
** Regardless of which option you chose, we will not be renaming old items. **
I am not locking this thread in case there are general questions. However, please note that the two options above are the only two we are presenting at this time. This thread is not to be used to argue about what has or hasn't been accepted in the past or to call out specific items. I will announce the results of the poll (with a screenshot) on Sunday morning.
Regarding foreign words are we including commonly used ones like, for example, chibi and kawaii or even Sakura. Though Japanese in origin they are so common that my brain just accepts them as... well normal words.
If option 1 wins the poll, there will be no exceptions. This includes 'commonly used' ones.
I'm not sure what prompted this, but I'd be really disappointed to see foreign words no longer being allowed. I hope that doesn't win. TBH it makes me sad. I hope nothing bad happened that prompted this :X
If option 1 wins the poll, there will be no exceptions. This includes &;commonly used&; ones.
Just a suggestion that it should probably be made VERY clear that very commonly used words such as chibi, kawaii, and sakura will not be allowed in case option one wins.
I feel this is especially important in the case of Chibi as it is an actual pet type on this site and thus used in a lot of on site items.
I am honestly not sure how much clearer "no exceptions" can get, but I'll try.
[edit] Added: (NOTE: No exceptions means exactly that. There will be no exceptions. Even if it is something that exists on-site in an official capacity.)
Oh I hear you! I'm just saying that as someone who comes from a customer service background, even if you say no exceptions people will find a way to try and talk around it.
Mostly I feel like 'Chibi' could potentially argued over, as one of the suggestions for tribute CW changes is to make it 'Subetified' by referencing pets and colors (for example the steamworks companion cube). And in my opinion a fairly valid argument could be made that by using the word 'Chibi' you are not using a foreign word, you are referencing a pet color that has been present in Subeta for a rather long time now.
For the record I am not personally arguing that person is in the right, I myself would have no issues complying with any rules that end up in place as result of this poll. I'm just thinking forward about issues that could present themselves as a result of it.
EDIT: YOU CAN MOSTLY NEVERMIND THE ABOVE. Didn't see your edit, that's perfect wording for it
What foriegn words? What is the issue? Sorry but life already sucks so much why is this an issue? :(
Which option would be fair? That would be my vote
I'm really hoping this won't matter in the end (if option 2 wins--because it would be really sad to see foreign words no longer being accepted at all), but just wondering: what source(s) would be used to determine what's acceptable and not acceptable if option 1 wins?
Just as a few examples, I looked up these words in some online dictionaries (that are free and didn't require me to sign up/subscribe in order to access):
- sakura -- Not recognized in Dictionary.com, but recognized in Merriam-Webster and Cambridge Dictionary
- bento -- Recognized in Dictionary.com, Merriam-Webster, and Cambridge Dictionary
- onigiri - Not recognized in Merriam-Webster and Cambridge Dictionary, but recognized in Dictionary.com
[edit]'s post below highlights the point I'm trying to make here: banning all foreign words sounds complicated and problematic because, as shown in my examples above, where/how do you draw the line between what's acceptable and not acceptable...?
hello! Japanese American here. I'm not really active in the CW community so I don't know where this issue stemmed from, but I think it's way too drastic to ban all foreign words. I think the users who may have had items denied (? again I don't know what is going on behind the scenes so I'm extrapolating here) need to extend some grace to the admins who accept/deny the CW names. It seems like the current policy is really reasonable.
Furthermore, from a cultural perspective, I know I'm just one person but I think it's mostly cool when people name their items with Japanese words. I love the appreciation for different cultures on here, and sure there are sometimes weird situations (not personally a fan of "geisha" being used for a lot of things), seems like the vast majority of things (at least Japanese related) are respectful or inspired. I also am very sensitive to the fetishization of Japanese culture, but banning foreign words is not really going to fix anything. Also like... no more crepe? how about ballet or cafe? croissant? ninja? tofu? you get my drift. Seems like banning all foreign words might cause more issues than it would solve in my opinion.
If we ban foreign words, will we start to ban foreign clothing designs? So no more kimonos/cheongsams/european clothes? Honestly to me some of the art is way more offensive than the words used to describe the CWs themselves. (again idk what the issue was but just conjecturing at this point)
Anyway, considering the current policy is reasonable, I really don't see the point of banning all foreign words. I also plead for people to not expect perfection from staff. Nobody is perfect and there's apparently ways to remediate without being mean :)
(and any future questions): I am honestly hoping Option B wins as well. If option A wins, i will post a list of rules at that time. There isn't really much point in speculating on it now while this poll is open and ongoing.
If no foreign words are allowed, what about the foreign names of places? Okinawa? Tokyo? Or things/food that don't really have an English word? Baguette for example, or Banh Mi? Longgan, QiPao, Kimono? Or even animals, like Shiba Inu.
I'm not sure 'no foreign words period' could even really be a feasible option since English is basically just a mishmash of foreign words.
Edit: Queen and Reiko got to it before me
thank you for your response! I was mostly waxing poetic at that point to advocate for option B ^^; but totally get your point and I'm sure whatever happens y'all will figure out a good way to deal with it. I understand not wanting to deal with people being mad about naming
I vote for option 2. We have so many words now that are widely accepted and recognized, and don't really cause any issues. (I know I've used one as well, kaiju) Option 2 just seems more fair to me, even though it may make more work for staff to review this case by case.
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Please contact if selling these! (and other colors) (and other colors as well) Offering csc or will open my owned list for trades!
please be sure to vote in the actual poll (see link in the first post).
Also I want to emphasize that it being "more work" for staff is absolutely not a problem.
Let me say right off the bat that I have no dog in this fight. I am not a CW creator and I have only purchased one wig in my entire time onsite, from the Pawn Shop, and I don't even have that anymore. So please take my post with a whole mountain range of salt.
But basically I'm wondering how the first option can even be done. Someone once said that English is a language that beats up other languages in dark alleys and rifles through their pockets for spare vocabulary. Meaning, there are so many words in the English language that aren't...well...English. Loanwords.
I'm not even talking about Japanese words that have been learned via internet culture and anime, although they qualify. I'm talking about words and phrases that have been around much longer than that. I'm talking about French phrases like deja vu and faux pas. Latin phrases like habeus corpus, carpe diem, or rigor mortis. Countless names of food from countless other languages (tortilla, sushi, sauerkraut, tandoori, ravioli, to name only a few). Words that we use without even thinking about where they came from: siesta, sayonara, luau, et cetera (there's that pesky "dead" Latin again!) Lots of musical terms come from foreign words: piccolo, cello, samba, andante. Can an item not have the abbreviation P.S. because it stands for post scriptum? Or RIP for requiescat in pace? Or AM for ante meridiem? What about proper names, like the names of planets (themselves named after deities, which range from the Roman and Greek ones in our solar system, to the dwarf ones beyond like Haumea and Makemake?)
What I'm saying is, the first option of "English only, no exceptions" is virtually impossible to define, imho, much less enforce. I don't want to see Jessi or any staff member have to go through that, nor do I want to see lots of people stress out and twist their brains in knots trying to come up with a "legal" CW name. Seriously, personally I'd much rather see the word kotatsu than "table with a heater built underneath it and blankets on the sides", or taco instead of "flat-bread thing folded and filled with vegetables, meat and seasonings." I suspect that's why we even have those loanwords in the first place - because spelling it out in English takes too long and looks like a jumbled mess anyway, whereas the one or two words more accurately and succinctly describes the thing or idea we mean.
I have no idea what's going on in the CW community to prompt this, but please y'all. Be reasonable. Realize what you're actually asking for with option one. An unnecessary headache for everyone.
Sorry to have to do this, but I received word that a few people were voting multiple times in the poll. I've unfortunately had to reset all the answers and make it so you can only respond once. To do this, you will have to be logged into Google to vote. The poll will not record your e-mail, google information, or give me any sort of insight into who you are. I promise. I'm sorry I've had to do this.
[edit] I want to just say a few additional things:
- If option one wins, there will be a rule likely simplified as "If it is in the American English version of the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, then it counts as an English word and can be used". "No exceptions" means you can't go "It was used before, so I'm going to use it" or "But everyone knows Aka is red in Japanese, so that's okay".
- I am going to be 100% open and honest: I don't particularly like having to do this. I don't like being a bad guy. I don't like having to turn CWs into something serious when they should be fun. But I'm not sure how else to stress that I am human and make mistakes. I have truly been put into a corner here, and this is what the end result is.
Why isn't this an on-site poll? That way we could vote without providing google login information. Doesn't even need a news post.
Considering the number of people that have already voted since the poll was reset, I'm guessing it isn't a huge deal for most people. I have no idea how to set up a poll in the forums, and I don't want to start it over once again. If you aren't comfortable being logged into Google to vote in it, then you'll have to skip it this time.
I have no idea what issues or drama are going on that led to this other than the recent site feedback thread, but given that little I've gleaned, it feels a little silly to provide an option to rule out use of basic common words like taco over just...clarifying the rule wording. I think personally, just changing "used commonly in conversational English" to something like "easily searchable in google" would help with understandings on both sides, since things are obviously easier to search when you already know the word and can confirm the found definition is correct, but it also prevents confusion from "what is considered common enough usage to use?"
