yes there is a comparison to customer service, and I think that's relevent here. Hopefully this puts it in more context, for others who are reading this. If you know how cs works, that colors how you view what I say here and in one of the threads that 'started' this.

Customer service is the lubricant between the company/non-profit that wants the most either in time or money for their good/service and the customer who wants to pay the least in time or money for that particular good/service. The main way to do this is to follow policy and procedure in as compassionate way as the csrs are allowed. Jessi is in a position where she is the place where the buck stops as far as CWs are concerned, but she is nevertheless responsible in a cs way to other staff with a more overarching purview, including the site owner. Her position taken here is very exact and correct.

This is a good point to bring up. We did have a color system, previously, but it was very inconsistent and not tended to as much as other issues on site. I think if staff allows users to pick their own color categories upon submission (or have an algorithm detect and list the colors FOR them,) this would cease to be a problem. But right now, we're more or less fighting a freedom of speech issue, as well as the other side of the consistency coin: for we have items already previously existing that have sakura, kimono, kawaii (and others) in the names. They deserve to have their naming schemes preserved, even if it's a nightmare for categorization.

I actually have no stake in the CW game, but my interest here is twofold: 1, I have been following the conversation about languages very closely for about a year now and have noticed a few points where the ball was dropped rather seriously. Not something to discuss here fully, haha, but FWIW I voted “allow,” and I’m a bit scandalous and would move to allow limited usage of non-English sitewide. 2, I’m not a big fan of requiring users to have an offline account in order to discuss their opinions in a way that counts. You’ve helped me see that this specific case is a bit.. different.. but I like to make my voice heard on that one as often as possible. :3

I get now why Jessi’s gone about it this way, forreal thanks for taking the time to explain the dynamic around this particular situation.

I have already voted and made a post stating my opinion. To be honest, I made my decision based on the original (first) post on this thread and by reading things that my ping group members posted, which was how I found this thread.

So, let me say that I am BY NO MEANS an artist and have never attempted to make or submit a CW. Respectfully, I know/assume that the artists who put their time and effort into creating these designs have a personal attachment to their work. That would be normal. Anyone who takes the time to do something has a vested interest in the outcome of their work, so I can understand how feelings could get involved.

However, after reading through the posts in this thread, it is a bit upsetting to see people arguing over this. Subeta, for me anyway, is the place I go to get away from the stress and anxiety of the "real world". And yes, to a point, this is also the "real world", as there are real people here and many of us have made many friends here, and we truly care about one another.

That being said, I think that whatever happened is being taken WAYYYYY out of proportion. I think that and the other members of staff do an amazing job on this site, but they are only human, and as such they make mistakes. WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES!!!! I recently went through something (totally unrelated topic) with my own account that I was very upset about. It was looked into and did not turn out the way I had hoped (and I am still a little upset), however, in this situation, the staff did their job to the best of their ability. Things not turning out in my favor does not mean that they didn't care or whatever, it just wasn't found that my situation occurred in a manner that was due to website error.

The point of all that is, the staff here works very hard, and tries to do their best to work out any issues its members have. To be honest, this is a pet/gaming website. The fact that Subeta has been around for so long and they are constantly trying to "upgrade" the site says a lot about how much staff and programmers also care about the site and its success, including how much they care about their members.

How many websites actually ASK for the opinion of their members about so many issues? Most just do whatever the hell they want and don't care if you agree or not. To most sites, you are just another number. If you leave, oh well, there will be new members tomorrow. But this site actually allows members to have a voice. And not just a voice, but members get to participate in the site with artistic freedom, CWs, forum signatures, profile art, and much more. There are not many sites (unless you make your own) that allow members so much freedom. YOU ARE BLOWING THIS OUT OF PROPORTION!!!!

I personally do not think that the CORE ISSUE here is that big of a deal. BOTTOM LINE: Staff does not need to ask our opinion or permission to make certain rules. If we cannot discuss things without arguing, just like the rest of the world (which SUCKS), the ability for members here to be involved in how this site progresses will be lost.

Thank you, Jessi, for making this poll and making an open thread to discuss this.

My two cents here. This entire thing has been blown out of whack not by the users (at least not as far as I know) but by staff themselves.A question was asked, clarification was given and accepted and that should have been the end of it. How it got blown up to this point is insane. It went from a simple discussion to something needing a damn poll of all things.

Agree with those who've suggested a site-wide poll (while i understand this cw specific, we all buy and use cws, so...). Completely agree with those who've pointed out that, despite best intentions, completely banning foreign words in item descriptions could get real xenophobic, real fast. And also language is fluid. English itself is an amalgamation of latin and german etc. Other languages borrow from English (like how you say "los jeans" in Spanish), and English definitely borrows from others (I'm thinking of Hygge and other words that have taken off with global travel and the internet, foreign words that express something we all get but maybe don't have the perfect English word for). I'm sorry if it makes things more difficult re colors etc., but the reality is, especially in this increasingly globalized world, language is fluid, & rules should reflect and incorporate that reality instead of clinging on to some purist abstract. IMO. see poll on pg 1 Grateful to Jessi, & all staff & volunteers who keep subeta inclusive, safe & rad. Thanks for letting us be heard.

I honestly can't understand how we got from the site feedback thread to here. I get that the rule is subjective in the first place, which opens itself to inconsistencies and users who will poke the issue, but the all-or-nothing approach just feels rather extreme.

i completely agree with you on this matter.

This is completely unnecessary. English is a ridiculous language with many terms and phrases yoinked from other languages. And boy do I love me the Merriam-Webster dictionary, it's not an all inclusive scope of the current state of the English language. A couple of unhappy customers is no reason to outlaw all foreign words. I understand that it's frustrating but this is a lot over nothing.

Without attaching a username, people can still vote more than once. Google accounts are free. And to reiterate what other users have already said, some people don't like being spied on and don't have google accounts. It's unfair to exclude Subeta users from a poll because they don't have a google account or a discord account or twitter account or what-have-you. There is no reason why this should be considered a special case. Please consider this in potential future issues where staff think a poll is needed.

I feel that this is a case-by-case problem. I think Jessi and the other site people have been doing a good job of running the CW submissions.

I am not a CW artist but I am a buyer - I would be a little more hesitant to buy something if I didn't know the name of it. I think it just makes it harder to browse through things when you have to stop and figure out what something says. Now, I know that a lot of commonly used foreign words are on site and allowed, and this seems fine. I really don't want to have to use a translator to know what I am buying on this site.

I also think this shouldn't be an issue at all. It seems like one person was denied and complained... then just kept picking until it to this point.

, you do a good job. c: You should have some chocolate.

I am not one to do this often, but I did over react and for that I’m sorry. I shouldn’t have gotten so heated, and while I do think there are issues with CWs I shouldn’t have been such a bitch about it, so for that I apologize.

But I seriously think if we cut off foreign language a lot of names are gonna become way longer and redundant than they already are. And that will be a big nightmare.

Thank you and all the other groups that pinged me! ^_^ I think it's a good idea for as many users as possible (especially those interested in CWs) to see this.

If you haven't already taken a look, you might want to participate in this poll/conversation (see first post for poll).

I'm personally fine with the occasional foreign/loan word as extra flavor - as some people have mentioned, CW naming conventions can sometimes be repetitive, though there's plenty of wacky variations too, haha. I'm fine with being able to exercise her discretion on what fits, and what doesn't, as long as users feel safe to bring up concerns/discourse if needed (and since the feedback forum and tickets are available, that option remains open.)

I'm not much into CWs and don't know what drama has been going on so I can only give a broader point of view.

Reducing language to the Merriam-Webster US English vocabulary doesn't run well with the rest of Subetean spirit. Half of your Alegarten items use slaugthered versions of German terms, Shengui Guo is based on a distorted version of Asian cultures, there is no such rule for naming pets. So at one point you want to include cultural variety (which includes language) but now you want to restrict it for certain aspects.

Generally, staff's discretion is always the final step. So even with US Merriam Webster you might find that some custom item names are just a no-no and request a change of name.

Having a wild-card approval with no predictability like in option 2 will cause drama again. too. So, just extend the guidelines how to name CWs. E.g. that it needs to be culturally appropriate and in line with Subeta spirit, and if it is not possible to use US English language (that can even happen with BE English!) they should give a short translation + explanation. This gives both staff and users something to rely on.

I found out about this thread via a friend. Why isn't this a news post? Why is the poll off-site for such a big decision? If you can't make an on-site poll, why can't other admin do this for you? Why is this even being voted on and considered? This is unnecessary censorship. said it better than I could on page one but I still wanted to post to convey my reaction. :s