hey sorry this seems like a bigger issue than some small number of pinged users should see, i agree with cholocate that it should get a news post and should have a poll set up on subeta

As stated here:

I did edit the first post to show this as well.

What Chocolate says actually is it doesn't need a news post:

But the poll is going to stay as-is for now.

Site rules should not be determined by a google survey. Site rules should not be determined by who is in a ping group.

I'm personally against a blanket ban on foreign language, as I feel the topic isn't as black and white as that.

ah sorry i agreed with it being an on site poll but i do think it should be a newspost for the reaosns chocolate stated above

I agree. Considering that this is likely stemming from the recent Site Feedback thread about foreign words in CW names...no one in that thread voiced any kind of support for banning all foreign words, so I don't understand why it's even being put on the table. If anything, I would've expected either a reaffirming of the rule on using common foreign words only or a slight adjustment/loosening of the rule--not a complete 180 on it :c

Technically, site rules can be determined and changed by staff at any time, regardless if a poll is held on-site, off-site, or at all. I am trying to form a compromise here by getting the users' opinions. The poll is going to be open until Sunday morning, and I will not be taking it down or changing it at this time.

Hey everyone! Check the first post. This is a pretty important topic so please vote. I personally see no issue with some foreign words being used. Especially if they are being used to describe the art and culture accurately.

It’s not a compromise if you’re hiding it from the majority of the site though... honestly this just screams a mistake was made, no one wants to apologize so everyone else gets punished.

Honestly, that distinction completely changes my opinion. I don't really submit CWs anymore and already voted so it doesn't really matter but I'm in favor of option 1 with that caveat since it feels the most clear and fair to moderate from an outside perspective.

This is a really unfortunate situation and in some way I feel like we've managed to make a mountain out of a molehill. I don't know if there will be any winners here.

I don't particularly mind the tasteful use of foreign words in CW names but at the same time I think it's maybe gotten a bit out of hand as of late. Honestly some of the CW names are pure word salad to me. Personally I've always thought that it's a little weird how strictly and clearly the language policy is enforced on the forums but how much leniency is given in CW names. Having freedom is nice but maybe this freedom has been used a little too liberally here and there and the boundary of what is and is not acceptable has been pushed further and further back. Some item names leave my quite confused and sometimes I'm completely unable to understand a meaning of an included word(s) without the help of Google translate.

I think that we should be okay with some limitations being reintroduced. In some cases the use of foreign words is completely justified in my opinion and I can 100% understand loan words or words that have a cultural meaning. But it is a bit weird to see foreign language adjectives and words that have a clear and simple translation in English used in the place of their English counterparts. Like the word could've been translated to English and the resulting name would've been much more readable and understandable to people who don't speak a certain language. There is a clear disparity between what languages are more okay than others and I sincerely think that we should be okay for that being toned down a bit. We don't all speak and understand same languages so I think we shouldn't stray too far away from our one shared language. We don't all share the same knowledge and despite something feeling commonly used and widely understood, that might not actually be the case.

This is not a personal dig at anyone but I do think that in general some changes are necessary going forward. Really unfortunate though that the discussion had to come to light in such a harsh manner.

A honest thank you for for your hard work in a tough situation. I think it's awesome that you can acknowledge and recognize your own biases in language and be willing to work on that.

I feel like this issue is blowing up a lot more than it was intended to be. The problem I have with this poll is that it doesn't really feel like a choice (to me). I think a poll was overkill for this and simply stating that currently the best solution is that we leave it up to staff (you) to decide if a word is common enough to be allowed or not. If anyone has a problem with that, then there could be an open discussion. THEN, when we have actual choices on how we can go forward, then we can have a poll. As of now, If one of the choice is no foreign words in CWs at all, it doesn't really feel like a choice.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I actually made multiple apologies for one incident: in the original CW denial, in the original feedback thread, and in my original post here. I have absolutely nothing to hide when it comes to an apology. Again, I can't speak for anyone else.

Also, with all due respect, you originally said this:

Which makes it seem like you'd prefer CW issues to mostly be discussed by those who participate in them. I'm actually keeping this very public. This is not posted on a hidden forum. It is not a locked thread that only certain people can respond to. It is in a very busy forum, with pings allowed to essentially anyone, and feedback from everyone appreciated.

I think you and I will never agree, because I definitely have never see more hypocrisy in denials lately and it’s just... honestly a waste of time arguing with you because you can’t admit fault.

A LOT of CW makers talk behind the scene, we share denials when we’re feeling targeted and insulted and honestly there’s so many lately

hey there, i think jessi has made it abundantly clear what happened with that specific CW and has apologized multiple times, so i'm not sure what else could be expected in terms of 'admitting fault.' what would you like to see? an apology admits some degree of fault, and she provided context and also put the decision back into cw releasers hands to determine how this rule is implemented in the future. additionally, if you want CW issues addressed 'publicly,' but the forum isn't public enough, what would you prefer to see? this doesn't seem hidden at all to me - it seems extremely public and also very humble.

If the poll ends with option A winning, I am more than willing to start an open discussion about what it means and what everyone would expect. I'm sorry if this seems like 'no choice' - I'm basically just trying to get an honest feel here to start and go from there :) There's only so much you can fit in a radio button description, unfortunately. I hope that makes sense.

(also HBD!)

I think this topic (not the forum topic, the foreign word topic) is too delicate to be decided on in a rush - i don't think this is helping anyone, what we need is actual suggestions on how to make the rule clearer. If we're not working to solve the issue, i don't see the point to this. Trying to be constructive imo is always a better approach.

Personally, I think "foreign" words are vital to describe some things, such as a burrito or sushi. Likewise, some words are completely made up, but make sense in (subeta) universe - shengui guo, etc. I think going fully No Foreign Words will keep being a headache, but I believe dialing down the accepted stuff would be good. I would suggest maybe limiting it to 1 word that qualifies the thing, such as "___ sushi" or "___ kitsune" etc, but not using foreign words as descriptors, might be something to consider? I have to agree that once two or more words go in the title it starts to get out of hand.

See my above reply -- this poll is basically a starting point! I know that isn't particularly clear in the first post, which is my fault and I'll try to clarify it later when I'm not so brain fried. I do agree that if Open B wins, we should still dial it back a bit (maybe with more specific 'here are the rules' but still not an official 'word' list)

I don't see why this poll even needs to be created. The English language is full of words from other languages. Burrito, Kimono, burger, tortilla, are all examples of words used in English that are "foreign words."

If there is a dispute with the way something is named, it can be brought up on a case-by-case basis and add a disclaimer when people are making submissions that "names are subject to change based on the approver."

Anyways, Voted for option 2 and going to go enjoy an evening of doing something productive

Personally I'm okay with foreign words! I feel like some of them may be a little more obscure in terms of meaning, but if this means removing "common" ones that are so often used, it seems like an unbalanced compromise. Plus, with the amount of CWs existing, I definitely feel that using foreign words expands the name range by a lot (it's so hard to be original now)