You don't have to do anything with your gallery. Staff (I'm forgetting who at this point) said that the old galleries will still exist, they just won't be viewable/searchable by anybody other than the owner.

I'm going to guess it's because the existing shop/gallery system is making the site nonfunctional for everybody (5xx errors). They don't have the luxury of developing a second shop/gallery system in parallel and only making the transition when the limits are at their end state.

It's all a matter of perspective I think. Personally I view the real money I spend on this site as "fun money" that I'm essentially throwing away. I love the site and the community here, but ultimately I'm paying to enhance my enjoyment of a game. It's not big-ticket item like a car; it's more analogous to beer money.

I think, at the end of the day, you're taking all of this way too personal, especially considering this is a change from a business that doesn't impact anyone on ethical grounds.

Also, incremental stress tests and soft rollouts are par for the course with pretty much every online game in existence that has a persistent userbase and required online connectivity, especially one that doesn't have scheduled weekly or bi-weekly downtime like most MMOs. So yeah, I would expect this sort of thing from other businesses like this one. Cuz I've been doing it for as long as I've been online gaming, which is hella long.

Also, people have pointed out again and again that no one has to shuffle their gallery from the old to the new right away; it can live there in your old one until the new ones have space as a sorta temp storage.

This is all a temporary issue that people are acting like it's gonna be the be all, end all. Ride it out. It'll be okay. We'll be irritated with the shuffle for like five days and then it'll be over.

EDIT: Also, if I expected an official apology for every time I had to literally relearn and remap paladin healing back on WoW after every major (and some minor) content patch, I would be waiting a long-ass time and also have a queue of expected apologies as long as my arm. Roll with the punches or don't. One's easier than the other, though.

I have seen posts from Keith where he says he made a mistake - it may not be an apology, but it does seem to be taking responsibility. Sorry, but I've read so much recently, I can't remember exactly where.

I'm also glad to see Keith posting. Hopefully, it will help people to be a bit more optimistic.

The old shops aren't going away. They'll stop being visible to everyone but you (since the visitation traffic is what's causing the 502/4s), but they're not going away. Leave everything where it is. Staff wants to make a feature that'll transfer everything over that they haven't even started on yet, so moving your items isn't even a concern right now.

The websites and hotlines work because there's another live human being on the other end of it. Playing Solitare isn't going to cure your gambling addiction, but talking to a counselor might.

I'm all for this tbh.

I'm not too involved in using galleries, honestly, so I don't have a reason to be strongly opinionated on the topic. That's why this isn't a huge problem for me. I can see that it is for other people but I'm having a hard time understanding why, other than the item limit. This seems to be the biggest problem, but in one of the news posts about the gallery change I believe they said that eventually they would increase the item limit? However, from the language used in that post, the shop/gallery update seems necessary and important, and if it is, I can understand adding a limit during testing stages. Plus, we'd still be able to access our old galleries. However - it is negligent of the staff to ignore the desires of the user base. That's not a good way to run a website. I'm signing the petition in the hopes that it will at the very least get the staff members to think about this and how it will affect Subeta users more thoroughly. :) edit: my signature was the 100th! 😋

[-Pan] You sound like a nice, neutral person to ask.

Keith said that the limit was just for testing purposes, that they wouldn't change the shops unless they absolutely 100% had to (which they do), and that they were HOPING they wouldn't have to add a limit on items/shop number, but if things don't work out that way, they'll do what they can to make it something we could all get by on.

So here's my question: I'm not really following what's there for staff to consider. All our problems are in the process of being handled. To me, it looks like people are plain not understanding that the alpha version that we're testing isn't the final product.

I am joining on the 15th in solidarity.

wanna join?

Already signed a while ago, will not be here on the 15th. Thank you for doing this, all for it! LOVE my galleries! 👍

Maybe you want to join too?

-- thank you!

Several of you have said essentially the same thing: the old galleries aren't going away. For example:

...and all of you have acknowledged that they'll stop being visible, but none of you have also mentioned that they'll be frozen: As of the 17th, no new items can be added to the old invisible galleries.

So, yes, technically, I could leave my gallery in place while I twiddle my thumbs and wait for the staff to raise the limits high enough to make it possible to move the gallery over -- which may or may not happen; nobody's made a commitment to that even happening -- but doing that would deprive me of the enjoyment of showing off my collection and of maintaining it, whereas I could at least maintain it in a vault.

I suppose it's possible to keep the "old" items in one place and the "new" items somewhere else, tying up two storage locations where one should do. That would replace the physical effort of clicking-and-moving items with the mental effort of keeping track of items in two different locations, but it's still not a good solution.

I'm going to infer since none of you said yes, you'd buy the car I described, that your argument isn't that I'm fundamentally wrong about how Subeta does business, but that I'm overreacting. (Delsomebody flat-out said that I'm taking this "way too personal", and probabilistic hinted at the same thing by differentiating between "car money" and "beer money".)

If that's the case: thank you for the attention; you've helped to keep this thread on the front page and visible through Thursday. Consider, though, that it took over nine years on Subeta before something raised my hackles enough to respond this vigorously before dismissing this too quickly as a personal rant over beer money.

Given how upset people are over Keith's statement 10 months ago, do you think staff should be making a commitment this early in testing?

You asked if I would accept that behavior from some other business, and my argument is that I hold different types of businesses to different standards. You're free to hold Subeta to whatever standard you wish, and other people are free to disagree with you.

What's annoying me is the lack of essential information. The News Post says -

My question, which has been asked by others, too, is what happens to the GA perk shops/galleries when a GA runs out.

I've made 3 shops and 1 gallery. My GA runs out on Saturday so I've got to wait until Sunday when everything goes live to see if a gallery or shop has vanished into thin air. Hopefully I'll still have the 2 shops with stock in them available. There's nothing in my gallery because I daren't put anything in it.

I understand the need to start small for testing purposes. What I don't understand is not giving us full details of how this new system is supposed to work for GA users who don't have a GA for 52 weeks in a year.

Most of the frustration I see stems from the fact that this 'fix' created a very large shift in game play for many. There are fears on how the already unstable economy will be impacted, there are questions that have gone unanswered for days, people are losing shops that they paid to have...

It's not that people don't want a fix, it's just that this specific fix, as it stands today, even if it fixes the errors may have other rather negative effects. And while people may not have the technical knowledge and the ability to see Subeta's coding, who better to give feedback about how these technical changes will impact actual day-to-day gameplay but the playerbase, many of which are spending hours of every day on site?

Chime in all you'd like :)

Anyone ready to bet that, at some point, we'll have to pay to increase gallery/shop size? :D (not GA, over GA limit)

Thanks for the acknowledgement. Did you ever want to be a fireman or an astronaut when you grew up? :)

I don't know if you saw my post from before but I know the only thing we will be able to do is remove things from our old galleries, not keep adding to them. For now, I am leaving everything as is and creating a separate category in my vault for gallery items if I happen to find something I'm missing after the 17th. I'm not going to get rid of anything or attempt to organize into the new gallery until testing is over.

just signed

You keep moving the goalposts. First it was about galleries going away. Then it was about galleries being too small. Then it was about galleries getting a cap. Then galleries not raising the cap fast enough. Then nowhere to put your gallery items when the change comes down. Now it's about not being able to change the items that will be in the defunct gallery space.

I very much stand by the statement that you're taking this too personally. All this comes down to is being angry at a system getting redone on an online game due to the old code causing the game to crash. I can't imagine mustering up this kind of outrage over something that will eventually change back to how we knew it (and better, since there'll be no more 502 errors) and will never impact my real life in any meaningful way, ever.

And now you've got Keith in the thread assuring you he's listening, so now what? Still gonna stage a walk-out to Send A Message?