I want to make the record clear and say I only suggested an extension.

You are cleared my friend. I know you simply suggested an extension. If it weren't for the intense backlash towards the new parlor items, I would have NEVER made the compensation suggestion.

To be frank, when I saw the comments from people who had suffered trauma related to kinky behavior, I was like "Sweet Shinwa, Subeta! What have you done?!"

I also believe it was a bad move to include both kinky items and items that support different sexual orientations. There are still people out there who identify both kinks and non-heterosexuals as versions of sexual deviancy.

Animal death is a common trigger and yet, we don't have a trigger warning for Graveyard Pets.

Body horror is a common trigger and yet, we don't have a trigger warning for Survival.

We have always been told that if you are not comfortable with some content, it's up to us to curate them. I'm not interested in the kink items, but I've seen paddles and leashes and masks in content showcased on TV

I didn't see the kinky practices, only the items.

There's many things i could say, but they'd be highly controversial, so instead I'll just say, I don't think staff set out to "trigger" anyone. These were items people asked for.

We can't have trigger warnings for every little thing that bothers people.

Just because some unaware people identify LGBTQ+ identity with kink doesn't mean Subeta as a site needs to worry about catering to those people. I strongly doubt that there are lots of people who conflate kinkiness with queer identity that use the site, anyway. I don't know the precise demographics, but because Subeta was one of the first websites that didn't punish users for referring to queerness, I wouldn't be surprised if most of us here are queer in some way, and already understand that being queer and being kinky aren't exactly the same.

(Besides, historically, leather subculture has been a part of LGBTQ+ culture for a long time now. I don't believe that cishet kinky people are queer, but leather subculture has been a big influence on queer culture around identity, inclusion, self-expression, and safer sex. I, for one, am proud of that intermingled history.)

Bug did a fantastic job getting the forums working properly. If necessary we could always have a one day extension to make up for it.

Anyway, on to the items in the L'amour Parlor. I love the sheer robes which match the nightdresses - they are exactly what I wanted. My pet, Spite of Styx, also wants a few of the kinky items for her treasure chest. I was a bit disappointed that there weren't a couple of nice dresses or wigs, though.

As for the L'amour Parlor's range of saucy items, there are saucier ones already on the site. This one can make a female base HA look like she has bare boobs with nipples. :D

[item2=Giselle Kinkylove Piercings]

Then there's this item description :D

[item2=Feisty Heroine Ripped Bodice]

I'm not sure if this one relates to vampires but it's a bit steamy. :D

[item2=Bloodlusting Love]

honestly acting like the orientation pins should at all be viewed as a risky move is absolute bull. Like thats straight up encouraging bigotry, since pretty much anyone who thinks its bad to have pride pins is already gonna be some sort of homophobe.

This whole thread was a mess, the request for cash shop stuff incredibly entitled, but the worst is while the kinky items are FINE (and shouldn't be a problem), conflating the pride wear with kink wear is pretty toxic.

The issue for me and others is putting the orientation items and the kinky items together in the same shop tab. It would have helped if they were placed in different locations/shops.

Also, is your HA okay? I can't see it....

I know that there are already kinky items on the site....I think staff needs to be a bit more subtle with the item images for these items. Hopefully in the future there will be a different theme released alongside the kinky items so people can choose what they want.

Apparently.

However, I would like to point out that your mentioning these threads was the first a lot of people had even heard of them?

I don't think enough people are even aware of these threads for it to be safe to assume that something as potentially controversial as this would be generally well-received just because nobody there said anything.

That said, while I do intend to go to these threads and talk about things I'd like to see, I think there has been a major problem on the site for a while now about completely repurposing shops and/or entire holidays without any warning that the general userbase is aware of.

L'Amour Parlor has historically been a shop with a wide variety of items, and there have always been sexually suggestive items in that shop, but it has never been the entirety of the food and wearable offerings before. (OK, there are also 2 edible minions, but all the food food is lube. Wow. And there are robes, but they are still very sexy.)

Frankly, with the kid-friendly stickers and plushies remaining, it's a now bit of a mood whiplash headache. There used to be a gradation of items from the cutesy plushies to the sexy lingerie, none of which was ever as in your face as some of those masks are. (The puppy mask is almost cute. The one with the zipper mouth, no no nope.) Now...it's like having a children's toy store and a very adult toy store sharing the same space?

It used to run the gamut from playful and cute to romantic and sweet to sexy, but maybe not THAT sexy.

I do not have a problem with the kink items existing, but they should not have taken over the entire shop like that.

It sometimes seems to me that the artists get inspired with something and they go all out with it, and they forget that there are still people who like what something has traditionally been even if they might be a bit bored with it. And this is a problem. People are going to freak out when they get something very different from what they have been led to expect even if it isn't kinky AF or a vegan/animal "rights" soapbox now.

(This is also a problem when wearable item revamps are drastically different from the originals, rather than just being touched up to make the art better. If it is a completely different item, it should go in the shop as a new item, not be a revamp. Similarly, turning a book about stalking a celebrity into a wholesome family story screwed up a lot of pet TCs.)

I get that this is a labour of love.

I get that change is often good. But I think there's a whiplash feeling here. Everything people expected is gone. And in the comments, the people who are sad about that are being attacked by other people gloating that the stuff the sad people liked is gone, which is effing obnoxious. A thing that is even better than change is variety.

Nobody's saying there has to be pink lolita dresses every year; I would like that very much, but I'm reasonable. But you know, having a couple outside-the-house wearables in a pinup theme wouldn't have killed the artists either, and it would've made it easier on the people who really don't like the kink items to have them not be so completely overpowering.

I mean, I live in San Francisco, and go through the Castro all the time, and have been to kink events. I still found it all very overwhelming because it was unexpected, monolithic and accompanied by pink teddybears and stickers with no "in-between" items like normal clothing and jewellery and wigs (there are usually wigs! and it's hard to make those super kinky, though this is not a challenge ok?)

Particularly since all the stuff was black leather and very stark. A little bit of the traditional L'Amour colour and a few heart-shaped buckles might have helped a lot, too. I was talking with some friends on Discord last night and we all agreed that some of the strappy items in pink and brown and green and purple would've been amazingly fun and useful.

The site has spoiled us, often, by gifting us CSC on multiple occasions when something goes really wrong.

I think it's easy to then expect similar whenever anything goes wrong.

This isn't one of those times.

As most of the first page said, Bug worked their ass off and put up a nice big informative message on the forums telling us all why, what, and how, and that info was extremely helpful and nice in addition to all the work done as fast as possible because Bug knew it was a crunch time and a lot of people were counting on the site being up. Bug didn't have to do all that work, or as fast as they did it, but they did. And we're back up, with only about a day lost.

It sucks we lost a day, but Survival always has issues one way or another and as Amber said we're going to get that back on the back end, so all's well that ends well.

I would like to note that for many of us users, the Shoutbox doesn't even register in our Subeta lives. I get that a lot of players do like and use it, but there are a good portion of us who don't even notice when Shoutbox goes down because we don't ever go there or use it. There would be absolutely zero reason for compensating me, so to speak, for a part of the site that not only takes a lot of resources to keep running but that I don't ever, ever use.

TL;DR - I don't agree with the OP, and Bug is a hero.

One of the reasons I joined Subeta (and I'm sure a number of other people did too) was because Neopets censored everything. Subeta wasn't afraid to allow fun and maturer content. These new items don't deviate from Subeta's typical content, rather, they fit right into it. I probably won't ever use them, but that shouldn't be a reason to prevent other people from using them if they'd like.

I think the people who are worried about what teenager users would think probably forget what it's like to be a teenager. They'd either giggle if they're aware of what the items are typically used for or they'd just shrug them off if they don't. They're not going to be scarred for life.

At this point I think further discussing the new items is beating a dead horse since has already addressed it, but I'm glad staff are sticking by them. They're fun wearables to make creative HAs with, just like the thousands of others around the site. That's all there is to it.

I agree that Bug is a hero, but I think the site needs to look into finding more coders. There ideally should be at least seven on hand, and they should be from different time zones.

The forums alone didn't require compensation, but many users were offended by all the new items. Staff will have to figure out a way to make amends as a result. It doesn't need to be item compensation, but they might need to solely focus on representation wearable in the parlor next year to atone for mixing them with the kinky stuff.

I also agree with 's post.

Yeah no.

I agree that there's an inherent issue to these items being presented as the focus of a holiday store that's centered around frills and thus attractive and fully accessible to children (not that I have a problem with kinky products, or that they've been included in the past less starkly and as something amidst a bunch of other otherwise pink and fluffy products). I agree that they embody and represent something that may affect users negatively, if not outright force a recollection of something they don't want to actively recall.

That doesn't mean you get to - what looks like - accessorise your entitled rant with these people's trauma so that you can collect the CSC you verbally admit to hoarding.

Good grief, "make amends"? "Atone"??? And getting seven coders with a shoestring budget???? The suggestions you're making are kind of beyond the pale and completely unreasonable. Staff is doing the best they can with the coders they have, and they don't need to apologize for any of the items released this year, much less atone!

I'm a little incredulous right now.

ETA: Got a forum point while making this post. Nice to see that at least one worthwhile thing came from this thread.

Oh, I get that. I have my own opinions on the subject.

I also have my own opinions on how the discussion of it all went down between users, which I'm actually more bothered about. But asking the site to literally pay us for that? No. Nope. Uh uh.

We can discuss things like adults, and we may get the result we desire or we don't; nobody's entitled to extra money, or "amends" (Wut. No seriously. Wut.) because we may not like how something's been presented.

I originally suggested getting unpaid volunteer coders in my post. I understand the site is on a shoestring budget. Admittedly, there would have to be tests to determine coding proficiency. But in the long run, having more coders (that are in different time zones) means that it's more likely someone is on hand to fix errors/reset dailies.

Honestly, everyone sees through you using the fact that some people might be triggered by these items as a means of trying to get CSC, and it's gross, stop it.

To those who were triggered by these items this site already has sexual clothing and items, and they are going to wear them, if that doesn't work for you neopets is probably a safe solution for a pet site with no sexual inserts, subeta has what it has.

Thanks for the agreement, but I need to say that along with the others I think the CSC request is a bit much, maybe you should reconsider that.

This is the kind of thing we usually get extra days of Weekend Quests for.

Coding is a pretty valuable skillset to have, and a lot of the errors don't happen on a predictable schedule. Like, staff can anticipate that the site will be shaky/go down during events, but they won't know 1) when it will go down and 2) what will break. To ask an unpaid volunteer to fix a site with (to my understanding) atypical coding on an on-call basis is unethical.

I guess if Subeta was REALLY hopeful, they could offer an unpaid internship (which is still unethical imo), but I doubt any undergrad coders are chomping at the bit for a chance to work for free for a small virtual petsite when far more lucrative (and paid) opportunities exist.

Just throwing it out there that people have raised similar concerns about Quentin's quest shop housing pride items next to dead things and it never went anywhere so I have no idea why suddenly staff has Sinned(tm) and should beg for our forgiveness for...releasing new pride wearables in a shop that also holds other things, I guess?