besides which, a non-vet isn't at much of a disadvantage in low tiers even if the vets pet has decent intel, so if the vet is splitting their time at all, non-vets can take the top spots for sure. And it opens space up at the top. it makes sense, it's certainly not perfect, but its decent enough until a better idea comes along.

It goes beyond intel though, as I'm pretty sure someone pointed out before. If you go all-in on strength, you can maximize your damage output in the low tiers where you don't stand a chance surviving more than one turn anyway. Veteran battlers have the freedom to play with highly-specialized builds like this, but new battlers don't.

I don't see how non-vets stand a chance. Unless you give out tier-appropriate rewards so vets aren't encouraged to compete below their tiers like this.

The intel makes a really big difference. A pet that can wield a Lucky/Morosbane Scroll is going to have a clear advantage given what a big % increase 50 icons will be at that level. I guess it might level out around tier 5 when you'll have access to RV/STS and 100% freezer to survive and chip away, but the difference is still going to be pronounced.

All of this could be solved by creating a new low-tier weapon for those lower tier brackets. Then the vets and higher tiers don't have to worry about T1s getting a core, and the lower tiers have a prize they could actually use sooner rather than later (going from T1 to, say, T4, is a whole lot easier than T1 to T11).

I doubt the BAs would want to add Intel into the mix of total stats and tiers, if they wanted to control that issue. xD

I'm not saying they dont have an advantage, I'm saying its a possibility. Obviously only one person can win in a prize distribution like that anyhow and if somebody stuck it out and battled the whole time, they certainly could win a top prize, t10's without great sets and tons of int did it against kiyo, which was a much larger disadvantage, I'm sure low tier pet owners could do it in any boss fight within their tier.

As someone who's getting into battling (I just hit Tier 8) the Top-for-tier prizes doesn't really encourage me to train my main pet as hard as it does make me want to find a way to exploit the scroll system for a low tier pet. And that isn't to say that I don't think the system is a good idea - it totally is! I just think limiting people who already have gigantic scroll sets to pull from and things like that from competing against low-tier battlers. I'm not sure of how that'd be accomplished, and while I think a cap on only letting people compete with their highest tier pet (e.g. if you have a tier 11 pet you're in the tier 11 bracket) would suck for people who have multiple higher-tier pets, it's the only thing I can think of right now that wouldn't give experienced battlers an edge over newer peeps (maybe a like 3 level difference would be allowed or something from their highest tier pet?)

peace

i like the idea of having 4 waves of boss, each identical stats, each infinite health and only around for say 4 hours and spread out at different times and the times for all the fights told a few days in advance. only your best wave counts. its not nice that the prizes only go to those who have enough free time to sit for all 12-16 hours of fighting, unfair to those who actually have real life obligations and a major tax on the sanity of anyone who can be there for the whole fight.

if you like the idea of a prize going to the one who delivers the final blow have a 5th round that doesnt count for the other prizes with enough hp to last maybe an hour, maybe boosted stats and the final blow gets the prize

i agree with kbbob that there isnt much competition for lower ranks, they see this insane boss as something they have no chance at anything worthwhile so they dont fight, advertize the top 10 in each tier a bit more, advertize the fact that even low pets get good prizes like books and plushies. maybe have lower tierd weapons released as prizes for less damage.

a suggestion would be the prize for top 10 in each tier would be a scaling weapon so every tier would benifit from it, like the trident or knocker, even if it only scales up to tier 8 or so so it wont ever be considered godly but would really help a low players arsenal would help inspire them to battle for it. and let us know it's up for grabs beforehand so they know to fight for it.

Considering we haven't had a scaling weapon like the trident or knocker in some time, I'd be fully on board with this. Then everyone gets something of great value.

I'd be totally for a scaling weapon; a nice bonus would be that you don't have to get the artists to draw up more than one weapon. Just a single item and done. :)

But if getting cores at lower tiers is gonna be the way it is from now on... I'm definitely training strength/intel on one of my little ones. Lower end of T12 sucks for being competitive.

Not like I should really be commenting. Been awol on subeta for a while and totally missed the gelatin war (oops), but just wanted to throw my 2 cents in that I agree the top of each tier being awarded is just not very smart. Were cores given out for best in each tier? Dang. I'd be feeling helluva lot salty if I were higher tier and saw that. :l

I get wanting to motivate newer battlers, but giving a lower tier a weapon they can't really use is just silly.

The scaling weapon suggestion sounds loads better though I really don't think best in each tier is still the way to go for this. It encourages tier exploitation. Why would you want to penalize a user who trains a pet consistently and just happens to be low or middle in their tier bracket v. someone who just happens to be top of their current tier or stays there to be top of current tier? It's all very arbitrary at this point. :x A tier one or two shouldn't be able to get top prize. There's encouraging battling and then there's handing out things willy nilly.

I'm not even a serious battler and I'm all what the hell just happened here. o___O

Tiers 1-11 got a core for being best in their tier. Top of tiers 12 and 13 were in the top 25 so they got a core from that instead.

Thanks for the clarification. It's still so weird for me. :c Hope it's not a best in tier thing because I find tiers very arbitrary.

Just wanted to add my two cents to the conversation since this was the first war I really had a chance to participate in when it came to the boss. I am admittedly one of the people who benefited from battling through the full 12.5 hours that the hydragellos was available. I was in the very early part of tier 12 when he hit (still am, but I was around 3200 core stats per category when he hit if I recall correctly). I planned on the boss battle taking place that weekend as soon as the jelly war started, and I was lucky enough to be available to keep an eye out for him to hit Saturday and also set my alarm for 3am to return for the Sunday portion of the battle (I checked the news comments and admin posts feed to find out when he was returning so I could time it). I moved as quickly as I could through all 12.5 hours of battling to maximize damage done, I actually improved my set in between rounds one and two to increase my damage output, and I felt cross eyed by the end of it and am still not entirely sure how I didn't just crumble into a sad little heap of battle exhaustion before it was over. I ultimately did place in the top 25 but just barely, despite the massive effort. That being said, I had an absolute blast doing it and will do the same with future boss battles if I have the time to participate again.

The reason I go into this detail is because I don't really understand the argument I've read that the current system is terrible and that we should go to a system that only allows you to have your best score count from a single boss wave. I'm sorry, but doing that pretty much guarantees that people who are on the lower parts of tiers 12 and 13 are totally up a creek when it comes to having a chance to attain all the top prizes. The only way a user with a battle pet at the lower end of those tiers (who has put in a ton of time and resources training and improving their sets just like everyone else if they've gotten that far) has a chance at all top prizes is to battle the entire time. It's the one big advantage they can try to rely on if they've got it, and frankly even then it's a shot in the dark because you never know how many stronger battlers in your own tier (for top in tier) or above (for top overall) are putting in a lot of time as well while more than likely achieving more damage per battle (a lot more damage in many cases). It's still a crap shoot with the current system for those lower end tier 12 and 13 pets, but changing it to where only a single best wave score counts makes it pretty much impossible for those pets to compete with their stronger same tier rivals. The next war that comes around I'm probably looking at being mid-high tier 12, so I'm guessing I personally would actually benefit from changing the system like this; however, I don't believe it's the right thing to do. Everyone should have the opportunity to win top prizes, and frankly there are a lot of people in tiers 12/13 who could've worked a fraction of the time I did and beat me out of the top 25 to win a core this time around (I'm still really shocked that didn't happen). Curtailing boss battle opportunities to benefit those who can't participate as much or don't want to for whatever the reason is not a good option when it mostly swings the advantages solely toward pets in the top of their own tier.

so you're saying the prize is best deserved by those who can take the most mental abuse rather than those who train hard, worked their rears off for good gear and worked hard on strategy? you're saying anyone who happens to have a retail job doesnt deserve a chance to win because they cant be there for a sick length of time? I dont agree with that.

id rather see the prizes go to those who can do the most damage in a few hours rather than who can manage to be around during the whole damn thing and not go start raving mad. if that means i dont get a prize its because i wasnt strong enough not because i diddnt have the time because I have a life or i diddt have the mental fortitude. that means i train harder for the future.

I'm saying that from my perspective it's deserved most by those "who train hard, worked their rears off for good gear and worked hard on strategy" and also participated the most in the battle itself. Someone who participates the whole time should at least feel they have a small shot at the top prize; otherwise, the incentive to participate in the battle is greatly diminished for anyone who doesn't have a top 50 pet. In my opinion, that's a problem that I don't think should be ignored. Top battlers should still have to work for their prizes, albeit not as hard as their lower ranked competition. To me that's the benefit of being more heavily trained and investing in a top notch battle set - not having to fight nearly as much as lower ranked pets to secure a top spot. Everyone should feel a sense of urgency and that they need to participate as much as they can if they want a top prize though, so I don't think essentially handing the strongest pets the best rewards simply because they're well trained is the way to go. It's not something they're entitled to if they don't work hard on the battle itself. The current system already heavily favors the strongest pets as it is, so it seems unnecessary to me to slant the odds even more heavily in their favor. I also try to keep in mind that this type of "strongest pet wins" battling system also impacts other highly trained pets who didn't focus on a strength based build specifically, so it's not just the people who are lower on the tier 12-13 totem pole who would be negatively affected by this type of change. There are other highly trained tier 13 (and high tier 12) battlers who also deserve a shot but would be up a creek with this type of change.

again not fair to those in australia where all the battling was done when they normally sleep, not fair to those with jobs, it is a double edged sword. one way or the other its unfair to someone. they claimed they split up the boss fight to make it fair to those in other time zones yet only those who could stomach the whole thing actually had a chance at winning.

the question is should it be unfair to those who cant be around for 12 hours or cant stomach that much repetition or unfair to those with weaker pets?

personally i'd rather see best 4 hour round but increase the reward to top 50 or those who reach a certain amount of damage dealt. if that means 120 battlers deserve a reward for kicking ass then so be it. and dont play the "well my low tier 12 cant do that much damage" card. i ranked against kiyo with a tier 10. the difference in damage from 3k str and 5k str is 29% more damage. fight harder. there isnt as huge a gap as you seem to think there is. the gap difference from 10 to 13 is far larger and i did damn well despite that major disadvantage.

this is a game, id rather win because i trained hard not because i fought for a torturously long time. and if i dont win its because i diddnt train enough. you have valid points as well, I just dont believe they trumps mine personally. a vote would be more fair.

i also think a scaling weapon for top 10 per tier would really help motivate all tiers to fight more, so its not just a competition for the top, its a competition for the top of your tier. its also a reward that will grow with your pet.

I have to disagree with you there. I live in the US where the first wave took place during the late afternoon/evening time and then resumed at 3am. That second wave's timing is not exactly what anyone would call convenient, and ultimately no user lives in a place where the hydragellos battles were both conveniently timed for this jelly war. That's more an issue with spacing out the battles a bit more and announcing them in advance, the latter of which I recall staff already saying they plan to do in the future. Further, if I can manage to participate while working 50-60 hour weeks with a bunch of demanding attorneys and policy brokers on financial lines risk management claims involving multi-million to billion dollar liabilities then I'm sure other people can manage to figure it out too. Remember that many people, students and employees, frequently have more free time on the weekends than they do during the week. Not all, but a majority. That's a matter of trying to cater to the masses, and sometimes a person's schedule just isn't going to work within the timeframe that a site event is taking place. That's happened to me before too, but it's just the way it goes sometimes.

Didn't realize I had tried playing a card of any kind without saying a word yet in response to your last post...? I understand your perspective, and I think there are certainly merits to making some adjustments to the system. I just disagree with the sweeping one being proposed for the reasons already stated. As for your advice to "fight harder," that's exactly my point. The well trained tier 12-13 pets who "fight harder" should have the possibility, even a remote one on the lower end, of landing in the top spots for prizes (and not just the tier based ones). Also speaking in relation to those highly trained pets without a strength based build, a change to a single best wave's damage would literally only cater to those battlers who focused on a strength build specifically and disregards other highly trained battlers who may also be well into the top end of tier 13 but chose to focus on other training strategies. It's not just about the lower end tier 12-13 pets to me but everyone having the opportunity to participate and feel it's worth their time to try (both in training and during the fight itself). I acknowledge that we have differing opinions on this topic, and I can respect that.

Remember that tier 13 had only been introduced for a handful of months when Kiyo came around. If that same boss battle took place today with the current tier 13 competition, your tier 10 pet's placement wouldn't be the same (that's evidenced by the large amount of difference in top damage done on Kiyo vs. this year's Hydragellos - something like 2M vs. 7.5M). It's comparing apples to oranges in my opinion. As for the difference between 3k-5k, that's not really my concern since that's always been prevalent before the addition to tier 13 (and yes, I actually am pretty well informed about the differences in training stats in relation to damage output; otherwise, I probably wouldn't be here having this conversation). It's the difference between 3k and 10k I'm thinking about for the most part considering that tier 13 was never planned back when boss battles were first thought up. They've still never actually been accounted for in this specific type of battling system, and that has a high effect on the overall outcome of these battles.

I totally agree with the introduction of a scaling weapon. I saw mention of that earlier in the thread as well, and I think it's a great idea. I'd be curious to see how staff would introduce both a scaling weapon along with the high end weapons that tend to be awarded for top overall. My guess is the scaling weapon would need to cap around tier 10, but that's still a great addition that helps entice more people to participate at the lower tiers. I'm not sure it would have as much impact in tiers 12-13 though if it were capped in an earlier tier. It's possible it may not be such a great option for those battlers if that ended up being the case, but we'd just have to wait and see how things were structured and play out.

To be frank there wasnt much damage difference between rank 25 kiyo and rank 25 this time, kiyo did 75 prizes since it was a 1 time only boss as opposed to hydrangellos being an annual thing. Theres also only about 120 or so tier 13s to begin with.

And yeah cap the scaling one somewhere between 8 and 10. id like another knocker equivilent, not a trident equivilent.

Either way i would like to see some sort of change made. Another thought would be to take purges idea on capped stats. Weather or not its capped stats with best 4 hr run or 12 hr stretch. I dunno, i just know it needs help as is...

You know what would be really exciting? Logging onto subeta during the event and having a random event at the top or something saying x is attacking subeta, help fight them off in the battledome.

And then have some sort of internal clock for your account since you log in from that point. That way it wouldn't matter if you were in Australia, the US, or Antarctica. You would have like 4 (arbitrary, idk make it 6, 8, or 12, whatever) hours to do your best damage from logging in. Then you'd get another event saying something in lore like someone else attracted x's attention, you need and can get to rest from the fight, good going, yada yada yada. Maybe even have x come back after a certain time your time period finished if you feel like one time window was too short.

edit: Or make it like a quest, time from clicking start. Akin to old battle quests where you had a time limit before you'd fail the quest. A bit fairer and more logistically possible? :3

Of course, I don't know how feasible this would be to code, but it would be far more fun and equally nerve-wracking having the timer start from the time you personally log onto subeta during the event. :3 Plus, if people had different time windows, wouldn't be as much lag? Would place more emphasis on strategy if the windows were smaller. Right now, it doesn't matter if your pet is highly ranked, if you can't put in the time, you're screwed. I feel like we need to find a better balance for this and reduce grinding hours.

I'd also personally like to see these waves with longer stretches. Two days per wave at the least. Nothing too long like a week per wave but something more than what is being given now (unless it was 2 days per wave then please ignore me, I missed it but I think it was less than that orz).