Oh come on. (Congrats by the way!) I thought it was just maybe the lower 3 tiers that had that problem. I didn't actually pay attention to the other tiers.

yeah, I only got 1 set of the top 10 prizes and it wasn't with any of my top pets. I guess there were very few t6 pets involved this time! Kinda sad

I saw Cara say that she "won" because she had the highest damage total. I feel like I "win" if I click just enough to get the last core that's given out :P

It seems to me that the emphasis now looks like it's more on creating an army of pets - which I kind of like the idea of. Unfortunately this time round, it didn't really work because people didn't understand the prize distribution and scoring system. But, with the same principle in place next time, I think it could be quite fun and competitive. Judging from a thread I made in the BC chat, there are many battlers already with multiple tiered pets.

I am however, still a believer in hard work being rewarded, so I of course can see the standpoint regarding the very lowest tiers, as those really do require little or no effort to compete, so I do think the rewards should be relative. But, I wouldn't be against it being opened up to mid tiers and people with multiple mid-high pets, as these really are people who are involved in battling and are clearly trying to either create a more strategic game plan or just train up a strong pet. I think it will be more of an encouraging factor to know that those prizes are actually within some realistic reach and promote more competition within mid-high tiers. I understand the argument of the very best battlers should achieve the best prizes - heck, I've put a lot of effort, time and money into getting to T13, but mainly people need to have a realistic goal to keep them motivated and a lot of people just don't have the time/resources to get to the 'very' top or at least to catch up with the people up there. So I think it comes down to prizes just being a bit more relative to tier like says.

well good you got just enough wins in with your t6 pet to grab a set :P it is kinda sad. Kiyo seemed much more competitive and I think 5x more pets fought against her.

Haha, I definitely side more with Cara than I do with you about that. I get why you feel like that though xD

My strategy did backfire when I finished 21st when 20 cores were given out! :(

I was extremely happy with the notices we got from staff this time around! I thought that was awesome, and I'm very happy to see Amy say we'll get even more of those in the future!

The pirates vs. islanders war was by far my favorite war/plot the site has ever had! I would love to see that format again, and to see what battlers would do today with that much time and that many challengers all adding points to the prizes! (I have a few sick days reserved at work just for this type of event :P )

If it was all about the prizes for me, I'd be complaining about not getting two Cores, lol.

For the most part, tiers eliminate the "seasoned vs amateur" debate. An experienced battler using a tier 3 pet has the same limitations as an amateur battler using a tier 3 pet. You have a cap on how much strength you can have and you only have access to weaponry up to tier 3. It's not like I can use my god weapons with my tier 3 to gain the "experienced battler" advantage.

The exception, of course, being loading up on intel/scrolls. But that option is technically available to anyone, regardless of battle experience.

As said, even if everything stays exactly the same for the next boss battle, it is still going to come down to strategy and time. If you're battling with multiple pets, how much time do you devote to each pet? Time is a great equalizer. You can have the number one ranked pet, but if you don't spend the time battling, you aren't guaranteed prizes. Your advantage would be that you don't have to spend as much time as others do to get the same amount of damage, but you do still have to put time in. And for people strategizing to battle only with a lower-tiered pet next boss, there is probably going to be more competition for that and you still might end up just short of that top damage. Getting a Core (or top 25/50/75/etc prize) is never guaranteed.

Also, I think getting a Core at any tier is encouraging. You don't have to be able to use it - you don't even have to want to keep it. Selling it to a higher-tiered battler who was not able to earn one on their own lets you buy a ton of weapons appropriate for your current tier or upcoming tiers or lets you go on a huge boosting spree or do whatever it is you might like to engage with on the site. The Core isn't tied to the lower tiered pet's account - it's a good prize for anyone, regardless of if they can battle with it right away. I would have thought the higher tiered battlers that were not able to earn a Core would be happy to see more in circulation being sold (theoretically should lower the price if the supply is up).

I don't think it came up this year, but I wonder if the BAs would have given out multiple cores if a user won top damage in multiple tiers or was in top 25 damage with one pet and also top of a tier with a different pet.

Also:

If BAs ever want something restricted per account instead of per pet, they release it via achievement instead of a loot drop. There is already a system in place to ensure that, so I don't see the need to impose one on the boss battle system as well.

Overall, I really appreciate the efforts to increase communication and information about boss battles. The worst part, for me, is guessing and waiting, and with the timing announcements and some comments about tiered prizing, that was greatly reduced this year. Putting that information in even more publicly accessible places will be even better going forward. The variable will always be competition with other users, but putting all the other information out there to have an even playing field is really helpful. I really like this trend and hope it continues. :)

It was mentioned in a couple of places, but no, the top of tier 12/13 didn't get two cores for also being in the top 25

If wars are changed to more waves, but also shorter waves, and only one wave counts, would different pets fighting in different waves count or would only the pet with the most damage count because they are in different waves?

I just fear if this structure goes through and multiple pets are allowed to fight in separate waves, it's actually going to make things worse. People already feel like they don't have a chance because the same battlers win every year. With a change like this, it could potentially mean the same battlers win every year with multiple pets.

theres no "perfect" solution but i dont think its bad that your reward scales with your time, even if that means kicking someone else out of a top slot because you have 2 top 20 pets and battled your ass off with both. why shouldnt someone get twice the reward for having 2x your pet? it ensures that some top prizes go out to market, as does rewarding lower tiered pets and this is ALWAYS a problem after unique bosses that everyone who can afford one but didnt get one wants to buy and not many go up for sale. furthermore its much easier to concentrate and do your best if your just battling one pet one wave or 2 waves maybe for insurance if you found a better strategy at the end of the first.

I think allowing multiple pets to participate in separate waves and rewarding them all separately solely benefits older battlers. Sure they have spent all the time and effort training multiple pets, I get that. But there's no balance with that. There has to be some way to make it seem to newer or even just not as strong battlers who have been battling for awhile that they will have a chance at winning. The good thing about having multiple pets with different builds is you could participate in different waves, and maybe one pet does better than the others for some reason or another. Keeping the system to only benefit older players will make both new people not want to pursue battling, and it will make players who have strong pets but they only have one not want to participate because they get nudged out by someone who was around for 5 different waves with 5 different pets. Best solution to me is allow people to win prizes with multiple pets but only allow it if they participate in the same wave.

but it doesnt benefit only older players the cap is the cap, anyone can reach it with as many pets as they have... thats why its there. i don't think that its something that should be explicitly prevented as its really a rather difficult accomplishment, especially if boss battles stay closer to the current format... No one won multiple top prizes this boss battle but some people worked hard and came close. other people didnt work as hard with just one pet and complained they didnt get a core. thats just how limited prizes work. but a lot of littler battlers found it really encouraging which is great and was the point. the only serious problem is the time and i think more, shorter rounds with longer breaks between makes it so that anyone who really wants to, can battle 100% and get a top prize which is how it ought to be. its as balanced as it can be man, there just needs to be battling encouraged more than catering to old or new or lowbie battlers...

Compare newer battlers to older battlers, and you'll see the older battlers have much more developed secondary pets. I think most people start training one pet, then work on others once they decide that they like battling. that's what I did. If the waves are split up and only one wave counts per pet, but pets are allowed to compete in different waves, it will be very easy to get multiple prizes as long as you have the pet for it. Instead of battling the whole time with the same pet, it would turn into battling the whole time with different pets, with no risk because you aren't using any of the time from your strongest pet. If things stayed as they are, prizes for multiple pets doesn't really matter, it is a lot tougher to get and like you said, no one did get two cores this year. but with any changes, this would need to be thought about. I think I prefer one wavescounts, shorter but more numerous waves and prizes are done something like top X, then top prizes go to the top in your tier starting at like top 5 of tier 13, top 5 of tier 12, top 5 of tier 11, top 3 of tier 10, top 3 of tier 9, top 2 tier 8, top 1 of tier 7 for top prize. just numbers off the top of my head, haven't given much thought. most likely the top 5 of tier 13 will all be in the top X too, so I'm not sure if that should really happen. still have a good prize for being in the top 10 of your tier for all tiers, but don't make it the exclusive weapon prize. maybe add something cool for the lower tiers who don't get the weapon, but I'm not sure what that should be. I hesitate to say something else exclusive, maybe a good tier 6 weapon or scaling weapon from tier 1 to tier 8. something they could use perhaps?

I mean if one user (say because he's tricky like that) battled with Pet A (tier 9) and Pet B (tier 6) and Pet A had the highest damage in tier 9 and Pet B had the highest damage in tier 6 - would Mike get two Cores?

Or if Pet X was in the top 25 damage but Pet Y came in first in tier 5 damage, both owned by the same user. Would that user get two Cores?

Anyway, I think that's a hypothetical because it didn't actually happen during this boss battle - I was just curious what the plan would be if it had.

Any time you limit availability of a prize - even if it's a lower tier weapon that you don't necessarily see as appealing, the price is going to skyrocket. Take the exclusive top ten tier prize from the Kiyo battle - that sold for 100-200m, depending on when you bought it. And it was "just" a wearable.

So if you make something that exclusive, you could actually be over-rewarding the lower tiers when you're trying to "appropriately" reward them. If you give away something existing that's useful, I think that essentially nerfs whatever it is. If it exists and is useful, people likely already have it and would try to sell the new one they got, which would kill the value and the reward aspect of it.

I'm not really agreeing or disagreeing with the idea, I'm just saying there are a lot of factors to consider and there probably isn't really a perfect solution. Mostly because there are so many differing opinions on what constitutes "effort" and "reward" and things like that, it would be impossible to actually please everyone.

To answer your other question, yes they should have gotten two cores. in the past I'm pretty sure has gotten two top prizes - I think he did against Kiyo?

Yeah that's why I hesitate to say something exclusive. Maybe a stat booster, but I don't know, a few tomes just to encourage battling, something account bound even. Maybe just stick with the top 10 in each tier prize for the lower tiers. I just don't think a top weapon prize should be handed out in each tier, especially after seeing some of the numbers in each tier. I guess I'm just very disappointed at the level of competitiveness in the other tiers for this boss.

But this boss battle should almost certainly encourage some real competition in the lower tiers as well. Besides which, there might have been some lower tiers with disappointing numbers but there was also some with impressive numbers, its not easy to get damage in at t1/2/3 when the opponent blocks any amount of icons and guaranteed OHKOs you. Next boss I'm sure it will be even more the case that the competition gets better at all levels, as it has continually. Perhaps not from kiyo to this boss but you cant compare hydragellos to a plot boss which had more build up, lasted longer and had a non-battle alternative.

I agree! I think next time there will be more competition from pro & amatuer battlers alike in lower tiers. As long as they are more clear upfront in the news posts themselves, so people know what's going on without having to read through dozens if not hundreds of comments.

and competition from the pros at lower tiers means opening at the top for high mid tier pets who really go full throttle, which is also great :D

Now that I'm thinking about it, I think one of the biggerst problems with this war was that is was only top 25 vs top 75 and even though a lot of people knew less cores would be released than the unique boss top prizes they felt cheated because they tried hard, maybe as hard as against kiyo but didnt earn a spot without considering it was a bit more than 1/3rd top prizes.

agreed that is the tough thing about gelatin wars, but by releasing 75 of them every time, wars can't be held as often because the price of cores will plummet. against unique bosses where the loot won't come from anywhere else except maybe the antique shop in 200 years, 75 makes a lot more sense.

My feedback on the Core bit has been wonderfully said by McKenzi, and I'm very happy to see Cranberry's thoughts on the matter. (Useful to know why there isn't an updating damage counter and why we have to tally our own, for instance). Although part of that may be tempered by the fact that I got the Core for tier 10.

For this one war, lower-tier battlers got something good. The rest of the year they're going to be staring wistfully at Maleria's Familiar, at some of the bigger tablet challengers, at old T13/Impossible or even some Extremely Hard challengers that they can't even dream of touching for years. Psycho Smashers are now only available at 10 wins for this reset, whereas people who were fighting before got them at 5. Night Lady, Rouland, big Morostide/plot non-bosses who are still amazingly difficult or tricky...the tier 1 or 3 or whatever pet who got lucky isn't going to be able to get the scrolls or the swords or BGs from that. There is a lot of stuff out there for bigger battlers, to begrudge someone who was willing to take the losses earlier on and maybe didn't even think they had a chance (a common refrain on some of those lower wins was 'wow, I didn't think I'd get anything', so they were participating out of spirit) is not looking at the big picture.

I would support pacing the waves differently, though, so that more people had a chance rather than missing it entirely. I'd also support new stuff in the Battle Shop at the higher token difficulties, maybe even some old plot items or limited special things when an event is going on so that experienced battlers who can or have done lots of battles have access to things they want. The book from the prize wave, for instance, could maybe have been available for battle tokens as well. This is just a thought, though, and I understand if it's not practical.