- You make an excellent point with my quote. I agree and should not said/implied what I did.

I am also somewhat leery of some of the future changes to the site's NPCs. I like to see variety. Not overly worried about noses, but I am about body portions.

I would be the last person to insult someone for being skinny + big breasted. It's not a matter of her boobs being big and her waist being small. It's a matter of people thinking that the characters have to be perfect (stereotypically beautiful, small little tiny nose, big lips, huge boobs, tiny waist, big hips, pale skin) and differing from that is somehow wrong. It's the same with each revamp that doesn't adhere to those. A good portion of the old art looked that same way, and I'm sorry, but that's not realistic. People should come in all shapes and sizes and all of them are beautiful.

I think it's not so much as people objecting to different body types as it is totally changing the appearance from the original art. Shinwa WAS slender. She WAS busty. She WAS quite pretty with an attractive nose. There was no reason not to carry those over to the new art. Such drastic changes practically makes her a different NPC.

Geez, this board flew since I was last on..

I would love it if the artists were planning on fitting more NPCs into the regions they live in and making them more active in the website while bulking up on the lore.

She IS STILL slender, she IS busty, and she IS pretty WITH AN ATTRACTIVE NOSE. She's not AS skinny, which makes her look less busty, and she actually has a nose. You know, you, , and other people are getting up in arms that I was so crude and posted a picture of a real woman, while not actually insulting her (unintentionally, yes, apologies for anyone that looks like the model I posted and got offended) or others... But you people keep bringing up how UGLY and UNATTRACTIVE and STRANGE aspects of her and other NPC's are (such as her nose) without taking into consideration that there are many real people looking at her and going "I look like her !" and feeling good about themselves for a split second and then reading the comments about how she looks like a pig. She looks like a man. She's ugly. She's no longer a Goddess. I am having flashbacks to all of the people saying how hurt they got over the degrading comments regarding Malaria's nose because they have a similar one. There is a big difference between going 'this body is unrealistic due to plastic surgery' and accidentally hurting someones feelings, and outright, knowingly insulting them. It doesn't matter that these are drawings. People look at them and relate because they look similar. They will read those comments and relate it to themselves. While yes, I idiotically used a real picture, that is my mistake and I own up to that. But you people are still unabashedly insulting people and acting as if you've said nothing wrong.

Wow, you missed my entire point, didn't you? I repeat "I think it's not so much as people objecting to different body types as it is totally changing the appearance from the original art. Shinwa WAS slender. She WAS busty. She WAS quite pretty with an attractive nose. There was no reason not to carry those over to the new art. Such drastic changes practically makes her a different NPC." This new art? NOT slender. NOT busty that you can tell, it's all hidden. And yes, the nose is not that bad, but it's NOT the nose from the original art. Revamps should build on the original art, not totally deviate from it into practically a different person.

You so spectacularly missed my point. I am clapping for you. And man, you must think Marilyn Monroe was fat or something if you can honestly look at Shinwa's waist and think it's not slender still.

And now that everyone has thoroughly shared their point of view, dare I suggest that everyone either agrees to disagree or continue the debate in private? n_n

Yeah, I'm willing to stop. My opinion is my opinion and no one is going to change it.

Hmmmm. I will just say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder ,there's a lid for every pot etc....

No need to argue over it : / leaves

I've been having issues with the npcs looking like entirely new characters at first glance too. But the thing to consider is that if we want more body/character diversity, and most npcs were originally drawn based on the same art style (pale/slender/stereotypical beauty standards), then they have change at least a little fundamentally. It takes a minute to get used to on some, but I think staff has been doing a pretty great job balancing the old look and the new while developing the characters.

In this case, thank you so much for hearing us. That small change made a huge difference and I think Shinwa looks awesome!

Her old nose.... was half a triangle... with no nostrils. Well at least she actually did look like an alien with that ¬_¬

this is not an attractive look for anyone

I swore I wasn't going to jump Into this cesspit, but thank you for the comment excerpted below.

Shinwa's original revamp had some minor issues that had some wonderful constructive criticism of. His suggestions were (as always) well thought out and helpful, and by the look of the re-revamp, were actually used to improve the character. Insulting comments are not only hurtful, they are completely unhelpful. The Anime/Manga style art was one of the things that attracted me to the site when I first saw it, but it seems dated now. I love how the revamps are making the NPCs individual characters, who fit their backstories now.

The new Shinwa looks exactly like my sister - body, nose, and all. I think she's adorable. & Just because skinny, tiny-nosed, big-busted women really exist doesn't mean we need 8 different NPCs that all look that way. One or two, sure. But all of them? That's just boring. Aren't the tiny perfect HAs enough for y'all? Or are they not busty enough?

She looks....almost swollen to me.

Or maybe it's just me.

I'm sure I'll get used to it though.

Kudos to the many details on her revamp though.

There is a huge difference between, "FFS, What the hell have you done to Shinwa? She was a beautiful goddess and now she's a fat ugly old man in drag" and "Well, this is a very big change and the art is lovely, but there is something off about the way she looks. Not my cup of tea or what I envisioned."

But at the end of the day these characters are all MADE UP so whomever is put in charge of them can change them however they see fit. It sticks to the lore and the art is beautiful. End of story.

Revamps bother many users around here on a regular basis. I think a lot of the upset comes from the fact that many Subeta artists don't revamp so much as recreate. Revamps should be like the original art, but better. Subeta draws entirely different NPCs/pets/items and says they're revamps.

"saying someone looks like a man just because they're not 100% 'feminine' is rude and insulting. There are actual, real people reading this who resemble Shinwa's new look and have that same type of body shape, so that kind of remark is likely to hurt their feelings."

Sorry to say that, but that´s plain wrong in my eyes. Saying that a woman looks male is not insulting (transphobic? Seriously? Clearly you don´t know what transphobic comments look like) per se. First of all it is an observation and possibly stating a fact without any negative judgment. It is not an insult, not before someone is judging looking male while beeing a woman is negative/ugly/gross/etc. And to take it personally because someone is looking similiar to a cartoon character is quiet stupid. Every comment might hurt someones feelings just beacause they have bad experiences with beeing insulted before. You can say you don´t like tall people (maybe you are short yourself) and tall people will feel insulted. You may say you don´t find people of a different skin color attractive and they will feel discriminated. You may say fat bodytypes aren´t your thing and fat people (I´m fat myself, thank you very much) will get their panties in a twist. And some skinny people will get pissed because there are men and women who say they don´t like this bodytype.
It´s plain stupid. A banana won´t get pissed if there are some people who like apples more. As long as no one says being fat/tall/anorexic/skinny/having a different skin color/etc. is a bad thing, no one should rip someones head off by stating they don´t like a special bodytype.

I´m fat myself but sure as hell I want to have a muscular, not fat man in my bed because I don´t find fat men attractive. At all. Doesn´t mean they aren´t good men and couldn´t be attractive to other women/men. And saying that is not an insult just stating my personal preferences.

So, please, don´t get your panties in a twist over every comment which states that a fat/big/pudgy bodytype isn´t to everyones liking. And please, please, please, don´t project everything which is said onto yourselfs. It´s neither healthy nor resonable.

I'm okay with the revamp now that it's been edited. The initial picture did make her face look swollen but it's been corrected in my eyes now. I'm neutral about Shinwa. She was in need of a revamp and while this "revamp" is so different than how it was before, it was shocking at first. But the more I look at Shinwa the more I get used to it. That's how it is with every revamp. Maleria was a big change too and I'm used to her new look now too. A lot of people still hate/are creeped out by Cinthia but I'm used to her too.

I guess just keep an open mind and accept that it's not YOUR character and subeta staff reserve the right to make any npc look how they want because it's their property. If I made some huge changes to my own character that I was happy with and then everyone was like no no no you can't do that put it back how it was! I would have to laugh and ask who did they think they were. It's not the exact same since subeta is a company and we're consumers, but on a human, more personal level, that's probably how it is... Without offering any constructive criticism and trying to bury the artist in disgust and insults will likely not change how Shinwa looks.

Shinwa was so old, still having an anime style, that all the artist did was westernize the concept. That's it. She still looks like Shinwa to me, the only thing that changed was the switch from anime to westernized style.

The revamped revamp looks awesome! Much better ❤ lolz at the people saying shinwa is fat though!! WTAF?! If that's fat then I'm the eiffel tower