First if pet slots were more expensive I wouldn't purchase them.. as it was people were waiting for black Friday sales to get pet slots cause 2000 is a lot of csc. In SP terms that's like 100mill which is probably only ok for those older members. I'm tempted to make it a straight $10 for a pet slot so rather then having people buy the csc theres just money pumping in then maybe increase it so its $10 for the first 10 then $20 after that. I think this would get people who don't usually think about more pet slots into it. I see a lot of people who stop with their GA max of 10 and wait for loyalty boxes.

Second I don't think there is a way to do a fundraiser without it affecting general sales, if I'm putting a big amount into the fundraiser or my entire 'allowance' I probably wont be keeping up with the usually monthly or weekly purchases of csc I make because I just spent all my money!

Also if things are being purchased via csc for the fundraiser, how do they know whats for the fundraiser and whats not? you'd be purchasing it from the same place so?

Would it be possible to make a temporary currency or just a separate one, where you pay money, get a fundraiser currency to spend on fundraiser "loyalty boxes" or special items etc so its more specific? or maybe forgo a currency all together and go with a $5 in fundraiser box out system and have the boxes contain special items or whatever, and maybe make it so you can combine 4 $5 boxes to make a $20 box that has different prize options etc

Maybe even change the prizes every once and a while to keep people interested, or just have multiple box options like you get a box and you can transform it to box A, B or C and they each have different prizes but can all be combined to make box D or E and so on

All of this however will probably still effect everyday purchases, I don't think there is any way around it my only thought is making the event LONG so people are less likely to drop a HUGE number at once but small repetitive payments along with their usual csc purchases.

Maybe have a tracker like you do with the daily goal and be really transparent with us because if the money doesn't go where you say it does.. there will be a lot of shitty peeps

Is this really needed though? Surely we could accomplish the same thing if there was a bit more transparency and the staff laid it out to us straight. Do we need to get kickstarter involved?

Do a keith's answers if you must, explain the costs and the plans for the money - tell them its a donation drive and put some achievements with some loyalty box totems at certain stages and watch the cash come in.

We have a cash shop and it gets used. What we don't have is a reason to support the site because from years of experience, not a whole lot gets done with the money we spend.

[edit] Ps. I KNOW things get done with the money. But it doesn't seem like it 90% Of the time. I'd also say something about how it looks like we're just funding Keith's multiple vacations (read: Looks like, not saying its fact.) but I don't need the fangirls up in my grill about it.

pps. I don't want the site to crash and burn (lol) but until I have a reason to throw money at it like I do... say... Shoes (Stuff I enjoy, but don't really need 70 pairs, its an extravagance) I'm not going to be donating. CS stuff is nice, but I can buy it wil sP. No real reason to donate.

ppps. Swag money. (I just like saying swag. I'm so kewl.)

First if pet slots were more expensive I wouldn't purchase them.. as it was people were waiting for black Friday sales to get pet slots cause 2000 is a lot of csc. In SP terms that's like 100mill which is probably only ok for those older members. I'm tempted to make it a straight $10 for a pet slot so rather then having people buy the csc theres just money pumping in then maybe increase it so its $10 for the first 10 then $20 after that. I think this would get people who don't usually think about more pet slots into it. I see a lot of people who stop with their GA max of 10 and wait for loyalty boxes. The pet slots is talking about would be through loyalty boxes for the fundraiser so they would be additional on top of the regular amount of paid slots. Personally I think that's the better way to go, because the people most willing to donate money in exchange for a pet slot reward are already maxed on their pet slots. I would definitely choose at least a couple of pet slots from the fundraiser if I could get them half price again (since they will no longer be discounted for Black Friday) but there would probably be other options I'd use more if they were more expensive.

I also think having multiple versions in multiple denominations of boxes is really complicated. I'd much rather just have a rewards system like Kickstarter has, you donate x amount and you choose which prize/package you would like. Just here you could donate more than once, obviously. [edit] I also want to say that I don't think it would be a problem to include CSC/GA Medals/etc. as prizes but for a higher cost. Like, you donate $15 and you can choose a one month GA as your reward. Obviously it's more cost effective to just go through the Cash Shop, but it doesn't hurt to have more options for those that want to donate to the coding fund, especially if staff doesn't want to have to draw too many new prizes (but I would love to see at least a handful of new prizes either way)

I'm really not liking the direction this board is going haha. It started as a means of telling the site we'd give money to fix coding and offering suggestions of which wouldn't be so painful on the site financially that people would be willing to donate larger amounts of money towards to see the site recoded and... at this point people are talking about $10 pet slots |D Now we're just into personal gain screw the site mode and that's not going to help the site at all.

$40k divded by $10 = 4,000 users. That's not going to help the site, it's just helping yourself.

I understand everyone wants amazing things for whatever they can donate, but that's not how the world works and that's not how fundraisers are successful and that's not going to help subeta get a recode it really really needs.

That's the problem though? Half pricing things that people ALREADY buy doesn't actually earn he site much needed money, that just means they've sold something for less/for it's typical cost and instead of funding the site to exist today, it has to set that money aside.

That is exactly why it can't happen like that that because otherwise it will 150% effect the sites daily ability to function.

There are a great number of users onsite who have capped their pet slots (literally cannot buy anymore) who would in fact pay larger amounts for pet slot TOTEMS (not slots, I'm not nor have I ever been talking about direct slots) because it's giving the site what it needs (money) and what we otherwise only get one of each year (loyalty box/pet slot totem). Which is the only reason this should be included at all.

To be fair if a loyalty box was included at any point, there's a GA in there, and it's not sellable which keeps the financial burden of giving people csc/ga at a bare minimal because it's not something a user could sell for profit/is something the site (potentially) gives every single user once a year anyways.

Fair point, I was kind of focused on the pet slots part of it at that point so I forgot the GA (and it was like 6 am when I started writing that lol)

Haha no worries (I always get pet slots so sometimes I have to stop and think about what the other options are xD)! That's one of the reasons I originally said like pet slot totem for x, and a loyalty box in addition for x so technically one could get 2 pet slot totems but if one really wanted like a 3 month GA or the boosters then they totally could.

There is one main problem - it will reduce the purchases of CSC for a least one month or even more, a money that suppose to go the site itself (salaries, servers etc.), because I don't see many users who will invest their money on 2 thing: the site itself and the future coding funding. So in any case, Subeta will need more money, so 40k$ is not really the final amount of money they will need.. but even more.

Too risky, it should be considered very carefully and without a rush..

People missing the point and saying that they can get pet slots cheaper in the cash shop is pretty much why I think pet slots are not a good idea, unless they are a loyalty box given by stretch goal, not a donation tier.

I liked the idea of having nothing cash shop related, not even pet slots. Have boons that are only for the fundraiser, to divide the two more. To not have people be "But why could I contribute to the fundraiser, when I can just buy it in the cash shop"

GA and modification to the CW system can also be other stretch goals.

CW Junkies are still going to spend masses for CWs

People buying ALL THE COLLECTION ITEMS are still going to buy all the collection items.

People needing one or two pet slots in a pinch are going to do it anyway, because the cash shop is instant. And if there are sales in the fundraising period, there won't be much of a difference

I would definitely donate, though I am more of a wearables person. CW eyes/mouths appeal to me more than pet slots.

I don't have a lot to add/contribute, but I am probably never going to spend real money on Subeta. It is hardly possible for me to spend on virtual things.

If Subeta does something like their keychains they did awhile ago, I might be convinced to save up and get myself some of them.

Also, if giving real money to get "bonuses/limited" items that are restricted as account buyers ownership, then I think it's not really fair to those that can't pay with their real money. [Edit] and yes, I understand it goes to the site mythical recode .. but is it really? I have no proof, so I'm simply not going to further my speech about it.

@ seerow Add my name to the list, I'm up for this suggestion to happen.

We need a full site recode, a new layout, simplified custom-CSS coding and pet profiles, ability to make the site mobile-friendly...the complete works.

I understand everyone dreads the idea of having to re-code existing profiles and such, but face it. We need the site the move forward, and improve database and server efficiency. Then holidays and events hopefully wouldn't cause the site to crash or lag.

You want change? Then help make it happen and do something, instead of just whinin' and complainin'. Actions speak louder than words.

[edit] I'm not discounting the progress that has been made over the 10 years. But as it has been stated, aesthetic changes and the like will help the site keep up with competitors and remain relevant. Improved navigation and newbie tutorials would definitely continue to strengthen the site. Use of social media will be essential as well.[/edit]

The fact that there's nothing I want in the Cash Shop. I don't care about wearables, which is 90% of the Cash Shop. The fact that I've reached the Pet Slot limit and now have nothing to plan for. The fact that users have no idea what's going on behind the scenes - all we see is lag every event and new things being pushed on the site when old things are still broken.

Oh, and how about that it's not my damn job to keep the site afloat out of the goodness of my heart? Or the battlers' job, or the collection people's job, or the Custom Wearable makers' job. You need to offer incentives in order to get users to spend money. Several excellent ideas have been batted around here, that would earn Subeta a good chuck of change, and it would be a damn shame if they are ignored.

Also, "we're working on it" isn't going to cut it. How many times have we heard that over the years?

A bulk of the appeal of a Kickstarter is the transparency of allocation of funds, as well as the accumulation of funds. As users, we would have immediate access to how much money was raised and what areas it was going towards, even if only in a general sense.

The only site feature I am legit interested in is not a cash shop feature, and will most likely never be a cash shop feature. Yeah, I am capped in pet slots, and right now, even if I wasn't, pets are not my main priority. Because there is so little to do, officially-wise.

I buy CSC when new lifelike dolls come out, to offer on people who get the new lifelike dolls. Lifelike dollies are a normal site feature, so when there are no new lifelike dolls who come out, I have no reason to get CSC. I collect these stupid dollies and I go insane CATCHING THEM ALL. But the forums and lifelike dolls are pretty much...all that really gets me, lately.

Idk about but one feature I'd spend csc on/give money to a fundraiser would be allowing us to make eyes. mouths, noses, full body mods. Hell depending on the time it was created I'd even consider spending $250/500 to get my own pet made or NPC. I think achievements, battle weapons, special pet colors, maybe a bag of things like the subeta meetup item would make great prizes. All the things mentioned on this board would be nice and would excite a wide range of people into donating when they wouldn't have otherwise.

I personally don't give subeta any money for csc anymore...because what's the point. I don't buy many items whether it be from the CS or CW artists because there haven't been many that interest me?And CW artists don't really take csc commissions anymore cause cash is better! I especially don't foresee myself buying more while the owner of the site states it's a"rotting core." So why should we dump money into something when we don't know where it's going? This is why a fundraiser would be a good idea, it'd give people a sense of purpose and security. People are even speculating that keith uses the money for his own personal use (i.e. vacations) I don't personally believe this, but it shows that users have very little trust in staff.

We've also been experiencing the same bugs for years, and I realize that the entire coding team is working as fast and as hard as they possibly can...but coming from a user standpoint it's a little disheartening to see the same thing happening over and over again. I actually know a bunch of people who've stopped giving subeta any money because according to them subeta is a "sinking ship." In fact a lot of my friends (who happen to be the reason I stay on this site) haven't been playing much because of the glitches/nothing to do. They've been playing FR, roleplay site, etc, etc etc. Even keith asked people what they did on the site. If the owner doesn't know....how are we supposed to?

Subeta has been a big part of my life as I've been a member for seven years now, and I only want to see it prosper...I just worry about it. Keith states we need more people to join to make more money to make sure the coding can be fixed in a more timely manner....but why should someone join when there's so many different problems and there's almost no trust between staff and users? If it was me and I was joining subeta for the first time today...I'd stop playing within the week. Subeta doesn't even have more site events which excites almost everyone on subeta because it causes too many glitches.

Sorry for the length of this post...I just don't know how to compress my thoughts, and I hope I wasn't rude just tend to be a blunt person DX

... upon further reflection, how is it that a staff member does not know what users want to spend money on when there is an entire subforum devoted to users suggesting things that they want to spend money on? XD

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Another thing folks like about the idea of a Kickstarter versus just giving Subeta money is that the rewards tend to be somewhat exclusive in a fundraiser. You donate x dollars, you get a reward that only other Kickstarter donors get. Exclusivity doesn't always go well on Subeta, but I hope for a large-scale fundraiser, the folks who grouch over "missing out" would be able to bury the hatchet... especially if you made all the KS-exclusive items sellable ;)

If you want to increase revenue, start thinking big. The reason a KS was suggested is that all these big ticket custom ideas just don't sound feasible for the cash shop. But if you think you can work with the art department to get "Custom NPC Coupon" or "Custom Experiment Coupon" put in the cash shop for like $500, people would buy it. Hell, even "Custom Forum Title Coupon" for $100 would be fun. We'd lose the transparency of a KS, but you guys would still get the big chunks of change.

Yeah, go figure. Scarsdale, read this thread - there are at least a dozen excellent ideas users have suggested, I'm not going to summarize it for you. Me, personally, I would drop $50-$100 for a "Pet Slot Totem" item, as I have reached the max. Several of these totems, actually!

It seems as if a new board of what people would like to pay for is in order. Pet Slot Totems Custom Forum Title Custom NPC Battle Week Lips, eyes Custom Experiment Pet Custom Species

For me personally I would love to pay for a custom user icon because a little yellow man doesn't cut it for me. Additional Quest Voucher or Buff per say like a week. Or additional vending limit.