Even I'm in over 50 groups and I don't really post on the forums all that much. I could probably weed some of those out, such as old plot update groups and the like, but a lot of them I'd like to stay in. A good chunk are for CWs, so if I have to cut those, well then, there goes some cash for you guys since I won't know about some new releases and such.

I really don't know what the server strain is, but I can't imagine it being any worse then this new subscribe-ish feature being thrown around. Having to check if someone is "interested" in a topic and ping only them still has to run a query to get the info, which isn't that how it works now? There are quite a few flaws to this method though that have been brought up, like people who move old threads to a new one and people who ping art groups and the like to different threads.

I do think Subeta needs limits in place, I really do, but I don't know if this is one of those areas.

I'm not a big cult person myself, but I thought one of the nice features of cults was the communal vault/bank. Would be interesting to see how/if that gets incorporated.

Also echoing people on wondering what's the difference between thread subscription alerts vs. ping group alerts with regards to server strain.

" You can only join 10 groups at a time :(! " Apparently GAs are 10x better than regular accounts.

How about, next time you think about pushing a limit without informing the userbase... just DON'T. (or, you know, hoards... >.> if you want to talk about strain on the site... side glances at hoard as it breaks the site trying to load yeaaa...)

I'm not a huge "forum group joiner" but I am over 15. Why implenting something and then back away by being restrictive? (I think we already have a limit for our personal forum groups)

Though I am interested in all of this, I agree w/ that statement. My cult uses ours, we used to more, but since they break more and more and they're so outdated and pings dont exist there, THAT'S why we dont use it.

That being said, I know my (and many other) cult has MULTIPLE ping groups. One for official cult stuff, one for borrowing and lending, one for events, one for contests, one general, etc etc. How will that functionality be included in this new forum group stuff?

Also, , did you see my other post w/ the images of how the group forums aren't showing up?

I'm really really concerned about privacy if cult groups are going to be the same as other ping groups and cult forums are going away? In the cult I'm in we post things in the cult forums that we don't necessarily want the entire population of subeta to see just because of general internet privacy things. Pictures of us (for some of us pictures of our children), the location of our irc channel (we get enough interlopers as it is in there), personal information about our lives that I and I am sure lots of other people in cult don't want everyone to see. How will that be affected?

I wish it was 100 groups and not..is it 10 or 50 now? I have a lot of artists groups. I heard about subeta possibly wanting us to subscribe more but I really would rather not. I don't want to go to my subscriptions and guess when people have slots open and I certainly don't want to have notices turned on to see all the posts I don't need to see to check for slots.

I AM SO CONFUSED

So apparently I can't join more ping groups AND this is replacing cults? THE FUCK.

Someone explain to me how this makes even the smallest amount of sense, and also why no announcement.
jfc. Fix cults and people will use them. Holy. Shit.
I have a LOT of anger about this.

[edit] Seriously. Everything said. I run that cult with (who should know about this if she doesn't) and this is really not amusing to me. We have a whole section of our cult for mental health. If that aspect of privacy is gone a lot of members are going to be struggling with things and not reaching out for help. It's a problem.

What? No private cult forums? How is that a positive change for cults? Cults were always about forming a group and doing things exclusively with that group. Which is exactly why there were private cult forums. If you take these away you take 95% of cult structures away. Are you serious? My cult never had offsite forums, but now we're heavily considering it. We often talk about stuff that we don't want to see in open forums and that we don't want to tell all of Subeta about, so if this change is implemented you're getting us right off of here. Seriously, common bank and such would be nice, but the only thing we really need would be functioning private cult forums with functioning pings. Why would you take that of all things away? Also, if a cult only exists as a single ping group, how can we get back to the functionality of different cult ping groups that we have now? We have different pings for (p.e.) important admin staff, events, borrowing&lending, irc etc etc., and some people don't want to get pinged for every single thing, others enjoy it.

Ping groups are NOT a new feature. And they are definitely not the place to cut; the forums are THE means to communicate on here, and putting limits on groups that people literally brought into existence to communicate is simply stupid. I'm in around 230 ping groups, and most of them are for cw shops. Granted, I could cut some of them, lots are old, too, but let's say I'm in 150 ping groups. And you know what; I'm one of these persons that like to get pings for diverse shop restocks, for the cs hustler, for roleplaying events and avatar contests, for cult purposes, or just for chatting - there's a lot, and I need them all. Because I want to take part in the forums, and take part in the community. And where else can we use that we are a lot of people with a lot of eyes? I don't have to stalk all shops myself because there are restock pings, and on the other hand I will ping people to important things they might have missed. It's a system that benefits all users and limiting it is in my eyes the stupidest thing that you could do.

So, about the limit again: Does this mean then that I will never be able to join a ping group again? What about another roleplaying event? Or a temporary ping group for updates on an art contest? Does this mean that ping groups like these will never work for me again, and neither for any other user who's at the limit? That's a heavy blow on forum functionality. That means that any new user organized games, contests or events will be very difficult to participate in for me, and they might even be impossible to join. On the other hand, if pinging all participants at once will be impossible, user organized events might get less and less anyway because they'll be increasingly difficult to organize. For these purposes, thread subscriptions that only ping for thread owner posts might even work, but then again I don't see how that takes less strain on the servers than a ping group.

About cw shops: Many cw shops are run by two or more people because it can be stressful, and having help slotting and organising is important for many sellers. If only the thread owner can "ping", how will those cooperations work? Not at all. Also lots of the cw groups get pinged first for new releases, that's actually why I'm in them. If you make cw ping groups into thread subscriptions, you'll take the possibility for cw vendors to make certain things available to certain people first away, which is an integral part of the cw market today. Will we have to be accepted by the thread owners to subscribe to the thread then, too? If yes, that's a lot of information to check, too, and that's basically the same process of sending out pings as before. Which leads me again to the question how subscriptions would place less strain on the servers.

Frankly, I seriously don't see how subscribed threads with a functionality comparable to the ping groups today would be better on the servers than ping groups. Which, by the way, worked perfectly well before the new forums were introduced. The group pings were definitely not a problem.

Hold on, limit on wishlist? Limit on shop? Alright alright, not really. Are we going to get limited forum posts too? Limited clicking a day? Limited viewing a day?

Limited friends! Limited number of pings a day! Limited exploring! You can only visit Arctic Frost and Veta Lake today, Sacred Lands is closed until Wednesday.

Hold on, limit on wishlist? Limit on shop? Alright alright, not really. Are we going to get limited forum posts too? Limited clicking a day? Limited viewing a day?

I completely agree with this, I understand we need to have limits on stuff but too a point it becomes completely outrageous. Limits on wishlists? Are we now suppose to limit what we want if so what is going to be the point of the site if we can only come on here and "limit" what we do on here so we don't find more stuff to like that we won't be able to add because of all the limits happening.

As far as the groups are concerned I feel like if you haven't started any of the subscriptions stuff you are talking about why are we starting the limits on groups and yet more groups are being made everyday that people WANT to join but can't?

Whoa I overlooked the idea about limitting wishlists... nonononononooooooooo n

These revamps are a bit of a train wreck, imo.

I think that limits can be justified sometimes, but I feel that limiting forum groups so intensely is really the wrong way to go, considering that a lot of those groups are CW groups. I also like to get pinged, as it keeps me involved in the Subeta community. Limiting forum groups (talking about CW groups here) is probably going to hurt both the buyer and the seller - and considering that CWs cost real money, I think you're going to see a decrease in money spent.

Also: limiting wishlists, I don't know if I'm so happy with that one. Wishlists are meant to be a place where you can express your deepest wishes, and if that means that you want every single rubber duck out there, then yeah; it can be on there. I don't see how a wishlist limit is going to be effective.

I feel that these new revamps are just... I don't even know how to express my feelings on them. I feel that everything is coming so fast and alienating a lot of people. I understand the feelings that people have had about their private cult forums, and concerns about CW ping groups, and even the concerns of a normal member.

I subscribe to ping groups because I want to know what the Mystery Box item is, or when the Token Shop restocks. I don't want to subscribe to a thread and see every chat message, or every single thing brought up - I only want to see what is pinged to me.

If there are problems with the server, are there other ways to deal with it without making so many users feel outrage over these changes? I've heard all negative comments regarding this new change, which is not good.

I still don't understand why we can't have two separate features that use the same functional base.

For example, we have shops and we have galleries. They run on essentially the same system, but they're different.

Why can't we do that with ping groups and cult groups?

I really see the benefit of having all these great features and incorporating them into the system for ping groups and using them to enhance cults, but I don't see why that has to replace the functionality that currently exists with ping groups.

Wait....let me see if I have this right: You revamped the forums so more people would use them, right? But now you're limiting the numbers of groups we can be in...which will lead to LESS of us using the forums and MORE of us MOVING our groups to off-site forums. Everything that was the point of this thread is giving you the EXACT OPPOSITE of your desired result regarding forums.

I join a ping group to get reminders for Melody's Cottage during the holidays and reminders of deadlines , to be updated on site features and fixes (but I don't remember ever getting one about this), to be updated on event plots or when the token shop restocks, or because I'm interested in the CWs a users creates/commissions and sells. With this you're now essentially telling me to limit my interests. (Just like my aunt when she told me I couldn't be interested in cars and having my hair and nails done up nice.)

I'm not going to subscribe to a thread and be flooded with notifications for users saying 'thanks' for the person that pinged for the restock or update or posts from people saying they'd like a slot for a CW. Out of all the ping groups I'm a part of only 2 were made for the purpose of chatting with friends so we all need to be able to use the groups' respective tags.

I'm also seconding the privacy concerns others have with turning ping groups into cults. This will only give them more incentive to move their group offsite which is not what you want.

Re the shop limits: I thought shops already had an item limit? Or was that only galleries that did? Also, if moving 250 items from an inventory to a shop with less an 50 items in it breaks the site, I'm inclined to think the problem does not lie with the number of items sitting in the shop.

Wishlist limit: Shame, but whatever. I use it to keep track of what I need for collections and achievements as well as just items I'd like to own. 6 out of 15 created categories deal strictly with collection/achievement items. 1 category I can delete all together but have been using it for cross checks, moving things around, and keeping track of event items I want that I still need to get while the event is going on. 5 categories can be sorted into one of the others but exist to keep its items separate for one reason or another. Should my list extend past whatever limit is placed, then I'll have to look into offsite keeping. Again a shame because I'll be less likely to buy the stuff when I finally have the sp or csc.

I think its safe to say that I'm not the only one that would appreciate changes like this being announced.

Jesus on a slice of toast, I'm getting pretty frustrated with all the issues that keep appearing. I generally don't post on feedback topics - other people usually say what I'm thinking far more eloquently than I ever could - but, argh.

I love subeta. I really really do. That's why I get so frustrated when I can see all the odd decisions being made and not explained - or even announced? - when staff had actually really stepped up lately, communicating well about changes and fixes, until now. I don't know why limits need to be imposed on players when surely it's the site itself that needs a kick up the backside? And I'm confused because nobody has explained the reasoning behind scrapping pings (I assume that's what's happening, since they don't actually seem to work anymore?) and limiting the number of forum groups you can join - which, huh? Seriously? I rely on pings to point me in the direction of new CW releases, the hustler, the token shop, Melody, etc etc etc. Without them I'm missing chances to spend csc, which.. doesn't seem like the logical direction the site should be heading in, all things considered, so I'm genuinely confused about this.

And I've seen a number of high-profile CW artists & commissioners either just pack up and leave the site or go on extended hiatus-es, because of group pings not working on their threads (for months now) and the frustration of sales vanishing because nobody knows that they are trying to release new CWs without pings. Which, yeah, I'm pretty biased as a CW collector, and I know that CWs don't bring in as much cash to the site as everyone seems to think, but... seeing users and money just walk away from subeta, effectively, because of something as simple as pings being broken is heartbreaking.

And now you're going to limit wishlists too? I completely agree with limiting gargantuan shops and galleries, but wishlists...? : If perhaps the actual reasoning/explanation behind all these decisions were communicated with users, maybe they'd be a bit more understanding about stuff! ;p

I don't understand. We like subeta because of all the freedom. Limiting what we can do = we don't like it. We will leave. You don't think we will? How many people left Neopets to come here? It can happen again, as long as the site is going downhill like this.

Limiting joining groups = reduced using of the forums. Limiting shops = reduced using of shops. Limiting wishlists = reduced using of.. well, having goals, spending sp, activity on site. Limiting how we use the site = reduced using of the site.

I thought it would be common sense but obviously not. Every single attempt at getting people to "use the site more" is what's driving people away.

It's all starting to make sense now. Ever since the forums were "revamped" and group pinging mysteriously broke to absolute hell, a lot of people have been leaving. Because group pings were broken they could no longer summon people to make them money to spend here, no longer summon people to fill slots on the CWs that make the site money. ...And that's when the daily support bar popped up. I get it now.

And with all these limits popping up, you know where there will never be a limit? Yep- the cash shop. I'm not stupid. This is obviously turning into a "we don't care about what the users want, this this and this are broken but we won't fix them, let's limit what you can do instead, here's another cash grab." AKA Neopets. Good job.

(edit for a missing word)

You know, after reading over what has posted, it actually does make a lot of sense. It shouldn't, because to be honest things like that shouldn't have been happening in the first place, but it does.

Don't bite the hand that feeds.