Subeta -

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

We had to have a poll, Noir. It was the only fair thing to do. This isn't just affecting the Staff, it's affecting the Users too. We are all in this together and we all deserve to have our say.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

If removing Longcat from the site means that we can play in peace and subetadb.com will be back p, then I am all for it.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Since 4chan claims to prohibit site raids such as this, there is nothing to say that if Longcat is removed, the raiding will stop. Those people do not play well with others, and certainly do not follow orders. If they dont like you, or this site, giving in will only encourage more.

Longcat is not "owned" by anyone. It is a concept, an idea. There are dozens of "longcat" examples on the web and none are owned in the sense the /b/tards claim they own Longcat.

Let Longcat stay.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

I really dont care what happens.

I've read something, and now I'm OFFICAILY neutral.

I voted yes. I should be removed. I want these attacks to stop. But death threats go too far. But both sides seem to be doing the wrong things, from my perspective.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

If I have to I will say this could be the end of Subeta if this goes on any longer Yes and No the long cat should stay for some wierd reason I don't know why but I like them just reduce the number of them that are on the site

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

I support Keith, Subeta and the staff, who have sacraficed themselves for us.

Viva la freakin' Longcat.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

ok from what i have seen and read to me it seems like 4chan or w/e they call them self are nothing more then wanna be hackers with no lives whom hide behind the name anonymous.. they need to come out of the past and stop thinking they are kkk and kgb and elite cause they aren't.. I am getting really sick of all this and it makes me sick..

why can't people come up with a better way to spend their time online instead of pestering people that did nothing wrong.. argg grow up and get a real life..

wanna target me go right ahead.. it's pixils for gods sake.. like i really give 2 smelly s about a bunch of pixils.
I came on this site cause my friends are here.

now if you 4chan people would get off your lazyasses and go outside and mingle in real life then maybe you all would know what a friend is..

so stop pestering people that have done nothing wrong..

and before you go and say well Keith did this or that..
I don't care what he did or didnt do..
I have known keith his whole life and i stand behind him in whatever decisions he makes.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Bugs has a point. You can avoid most of the bruhaha by avoiding the boards or making comments for the time being. I'm just ignoring the hacks from here on out. I'll play my quests and rs my shop (which is in DIRE need of pricing) and mind my own business.

And at the same time - I know that's not the perfect way to deal w/this problem. But it's the path I've chosen for now. When they attack me personally I will change tactics.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Quote:

; border: 1px solid ; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10;">I know that saying Subeta is in the legal right and the chans are breaking the law is going to show the assailants reason, and make them stop.

I'm really good at forgetting the word "not". Let me try that again. I meant to say:

"I know that saying Subeta is in the legal right and the chans are breaking the law is NOT going to show the assailants reason, and make them stop."

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

laughs Oh puh-leez, Sin! Everyone knows I'm not LAME enough to edit your post to something else! Haven't I been letting you speak freely, unfettered, and unfrozen all along? So I'd choose now to do something so kindergarten? Uh uh, nope, no way! Nice try though.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

It's a mild inconvenience for the average Subeta user. Sure, those who lost accounts may have to wait a while before having things restored to them but overall the biggest problem for members is rated at a mild inconvenience. Sure, we can't use the shop search as often as we want and sure we have to put up with a few people with a bone to pick but how bad is that, really? It's the staff that have the real problems. They actually have to fix all of this. I'm willing to deal with this and help out as much as I can for as long as needed as long as the staff still wish to.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Quote:

; border: 1px solid ; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10;">But I hope you would read other things i've wrote to explain the longcat situation and the other things about it.

I have. I know that saying Subeta is in the legal right and the chans are breaking the law is going to show the assailants reason, and make them stop. I personally do not believe this will stop if we delete it, but even that aside, it's a cause worth standing up for. We are literally talking human rights versus terrorism here. Not only that, of all the sites who feature, let alone profit off of the Longcat with no mention of any of the chan sites, they picked us because they disdain their community symbol being associated with things the raiders detest (i.e, furries). Again, not trying to say we have a point that will show them reason. It's simply a cause I'm willing to stand for, and proud of Subeta for doing the same. With disdain like the chans have shown simply for what Subeta is, I wouldn't doubt this would happen again even if we removed the Longcat; just wait until they come up with an image of a german-shepherd like dog with a crescent moon marking over it's eye, and they'll come after us because of our Kumos.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

thanks subeta mods for deleting what i said and writing: Goes to get lunch. probably gonna think i wrote something rude. pfft. this information manipulation is disgusting.

hats off to you, I'm outta here.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

again, I'll say that i wish one of the options in the poll was "change longcat somehow". If that had been an option instead of just yes and no, I honestly believe that the poll results would look a whole heck of a lot different. I don't care about longcat. I don't care about who said what and did what at this point. I just want something to be done. If that is a forthright statement on the front page in bold letters saying" Longcat will not be taken off the site now or ever" or if it is an announcement that Longcat will be deleted as an item....it doesn't matter either way. At this point I just want SOMETHING done. Some kind of resolution to this whole ugly mess. Kudos to the staff for trying to maintain open lines of communication with us(the users) and also for doing an amazing job of cleaning up the forums and profiles as needed.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

maxxis, they aren't trying to scare you. they're going to do what they do regardless of how you feel. And you really should read up on the situation. You don't understand why things have come to the point that they're at, so don't act and make decisions as if you do.

I've read up on them, thankyou.
You have no idea where or what I do with my online time, nor my capabilities. I've been frequenting the 4chan, on and off. I know they're upset at the way keith handled things. And I know they don't care about how I as a person A Human being feel. I wasn't posting my reply for the anaymous, I was posting my reply and my feelings toward the current situation for those whom I respect. Subeta, its staff, and it's members.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

goes to get lunch.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

I've also not posted in... whatever that Livejournal is. Technically speaking it isn't 4chan because, from what I've read, they disallow raids and the posting of personal info. Now, if we want all of the truth to come out, then I'd suggest they ask around among their own members where the idea to have the Longcat on our site originated from... they might (or might not) be surprised at the truth (that they claim that they're so fond of) that they discover... Also, they have a basic flawed premise, which isn't really their fault, since it could be construed as a natural assumption, that all Internet users surf all over the 'Net and know everything. We do not. I, for one, had no clue that an image that I swear is similar to something I saw in a Monty Python sketch years ago, not to mention the old "Hang In There" Kitty from... what, the 1970's, was in any way affiliated with any Internet group whatsoever. So you'd come after us for using something that I would have is assumed is public domain by now, being that the appropriate time frame has elapsed, merely because I had no knowledge of your existence? That seems a bit off to me.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

maxxis, they aren't trying to scare you. they're going to do what they do regardless of how you feel. And you really should read up on the situation. You don't understand why things have come to the point that they're at, so don't act and make decisions as if you do.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Correction: Like yours, others accounts aren't lost either.

I really need to proof read. X_x

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Nothing good comes from war.

BUT

...sometimes it's a necessity. If you're opponent is as such.

Darn.

I say, we don't back down. From the poll, it seems as if the users don't mind being put through this. We don't want Subeta to crash and burn, but there are many of us. =o Plus, we can't have them come to our site and scare us anytime they please. That would suck.

I also think that this whole thing is ridiculous, and I don't want to take part in it. Iv'e had my share of these kinds of battles, and it always drags on, it just never stops. Most people here, just want to play Subeta. This whole thing got out of hand a long time ago, and pretty much, I joined this site, to get away from such drama. That's why I like Subeta, because of it's seemingly peaceful nature, now that, that has been disrupted, I'm not sure where I'll be going next. 0.0

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Plusha, just because you lost your previous account, doesn't mean that Keith should bow down to these people. Like yours, your account is not lost. However the admin, UAs and mods have their hands full with the on coming raid that's being scheduled for tomorrow as well as current raids/hackings that are going on.

If you're bored, leave. e_e No one is making you stay here.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Quote:

; border: 1px solid ; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10;">to noirravens: It is not against the rules of most chan sites to make fun of people or talk about disliking them. It is against the rules to attempt to assemble a raid. Those threads have been getting deleted and the OP's banned.

I know that Sinfullysweet404. e_e

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

-sigh- If it ain't one thing it is another. With this new development I guess I can kiss my old account good-bye? I came here from another site because I had lost interest because it was to hectic and this one was fun. I lost my account in the power outage after spending over 5 months getting my 12 pets whom I role-played with and I wasn't even home. I donated to the site in real money as well as my friend to get me the MDP. 2 weeks.....I'm losing my interest here. Now with such childish actions about pixels that aren't copyrighted to any one person and can actually be real animals like the dwarf cat, granted they can't get as long as the pixel cats. Threats on lives and other things are a sign of pathetic people. I'm sorry. Gay jokes and other assorted things are unnecessary. Can this not be resolved in a civil manner? Change the pixel slightly, rename it, do something of that sort. If that don't work, remove it. It is not worth the fight. I am sorry for all those who love and might lose the long cat, but it would be for the best of the site. If you wish to intelligently talk to me about this or comment to me, I am willing to talk. It is sad when free ideas are fought over when no copyright is found. (If there is one please correct me.) I understand some disagree with me, it is what makes the world interesting but please don't yell at me for my ideas.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

This actually sickens me, a site I never even knew existed, until an item was given to us( the players on subeta). Now, however, theat they've made a point to make themselves known, the entire idea of such a site disturbs me. In everyday life things are made and used, noone is threatened with their lives, now on the internet its okay if you hide behind an unknown identity and attack a harmless site? It's rediculous to fatham people would actually rally together to "bring-down" another site, over an item/image. Images find their way all across the internet, and that is never going to stop. There are no laws forbiding the use of an image thats not Copyright protected. I've seen what goes on at 4chan, images being tarnished, or drawn over, and yet you'll come to a friendly site like subeta and threaten its users and admin? There is no pitty, nor respect I will ever give to those who would do such a thing. I stand firm behind subeta, and the admins(aswell as keith himself). Threaten me if you must, you'll find out soon enough Your efforts of scare tactics do not work on one like myself.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

to debilee: I wasn't accusing you of being a "covert ops" I was saying that what you said basically labels anyone who doesn't support the admins/keiths actions as a traitor or spy. Which is just absurd.

to noirravens: It is not against the rules of most chan sites to make fun of people or talk about disliking them. It is against the rules to attempt to assemble a raid. Those threads have been getting deleted and the OP's banned.

to ravensdreams: They do know this, that is why they do what they can to protect themselves. So you're wrong, they are aware of what could happen to them.

to hemp: I do not dissagree that they've done illegal things. I also do not dissagree that the chan's did not create the physical long cat. But I hope you would read other things i've wrote to explain the longcat situation and the other things about it. I'm gonna try not to re-write everything i've written.

I'm only sort of a channer, I dont participate in raids or go there taht often. I'm a channer, an SA'r, an ebaumser, a gmailer, etc etc. I just browse the internet.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

I do NOT support Keith's way of dealing with the situation, and I feel that he gets what he deserves. Harrassing and threating the channers are the wrong way to go about things. He should have ignored it, or dealt with it as an adult. Now thanks to him, WE, the USERS need to suffer for his immaturity.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Quote:

; border: 1px solid ; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10;">
I'm not disagreeing with your interpretation when I say this, just sharing my own; I take it to be the staff wondering if we, the users, do not want to be put through this. The staff as far as I've understood still want to hold strong, if the decision were left up to them.

Didn't think about it like that but still, the fact that this poll exists is just driving them on.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

bugs, you're trying to argue morals with a group of people who don't have any specific moral leanings. They are the meanest people and the kindest people. They gather together for the simple fact that nothing is taboo there. People may flame you for what you say or they may not. Many channers just think of the "chan attitude" (which is basically being a snarky jerk) as a joke and so they perpetuate it. Some don't, some do.

This isn't even completely about longcat anymore. Keith ddos'd the chan sites apparently and he also left insults and antagonizing comments in source codes. http://loooooooongcat.livejournal.com/ that little tasty treat is run by subeta mods and was one of the things put in the source code.

Luckily, longcat is still the major target. keiths actions just added fuel to a dying flame. If nothing had happened this would have ended very early. I'm hear to tell you that you aren't going to be able to reason away the channers. You're not going to appeal to their morals and have them respect you. You can end it now, or drag it on indefinitely (personally i think the channers will just get bored if nothing else happens, but it will go on longer than if longcat was just removed.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Quote:

; border: 1px solid ; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10;">This poll should have never been made. It only shows them that we're bowing down and giving in or at least, cowering in fear of them.

I'm not disagreeing with your interpretation when I say this, just sharing my own; I take it to be the staff wondering if we, the users, do not want to be put through this. The staff as far as I've understood still want to hold strong, if the decision were left up to them.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Basilisk- They spam other sites anyways. One at a time as far as I've seen. So the sooner the longcat is gone, the sooner they'll move on to another site, the sooner that slowdown/parts of the site not even working isn't a part of the daily routine.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

...what has 4chan done now? I swear, every site I friggin' go to, they're pickin' fights.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

"sorry hemp, but the majority of the chan site owners have saved themselves by having made raids a bannable offense and not condoned by them. The users are acting independently, so no, you can't go and persecute the sites."

So why haven't they banned all the users who've posted on their anti-subeta threads? e_e

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Covert ops?? Me?!? XD I'm about as covert ops as a Mack truck! XD I'm just being logical about what I see. I'm just saying that you keep repeating that you "don't forgive", so it logically follows that, if we do remove the longcat (which you'll note my avatar is not wearing and never has to this point), then you're not going to leave anyway, so what would the point be? Our users tend to stick by us because they know that we genuinely care about them; we're not like other sites, we're right here with them. They won't abandon us, I have faith in them.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Quote:

; border: 1px solid ; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10;">sorry hemp, but the majority of the chan site owners have saved themselves by having made raids a bannable offense and not condoned by them. The users are acting independently, so no, you can't go and persecute the sites.

If you think you have the money and time to go through internet legal battles, tracking down each and every user, because these users don't have a single living breathing entity that controls them, then you are extremely deluded. Besides, if certain things that keith has done are true, than he is actually in the same pot as many of the channers. (ie, ddos attacks and haranguing people outside his site.)

I didn't say anything about sueing a site owner. And no, I personally don't intend to fund any legal action myself. Your description of tracking these people down is quite deluded; luckily, that isn't how it works. I have no reliable knowledge of Keith's actions or responses toward the other sites, and if the DDoS initiation allegation were true it would diminish his chance of any legal action in his favor. However, none of that negates the fact that these people are breaking laws to try and bully Subeta into removing the Longcat. I do not think we should give up our legal right to our fanart depiction of the public domain meme. Which, by the way, is far from an original concept; there is a turkish breed of cat originating in the 1400's who was known as the "Long cat", and Albert Einstein is quoted using the long cat in a metaphor to explain telegraphs. Obviously Subeta's depiction is derived from the internet meme, I'm not trying to say it's based on the afore mentioned historical facts. I'm simply pointing out just how much of a free domain the concept is.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

This poll should have never been made. It only shows them that we're bowing down and giving in or at least, cowering in fear of them. All legal action should be taken against 4chan and it's other chans.

Also, about this scheduled "raid" of theirs, the site should just go offline for tomorrow. They can't spam/raid a site that's offline. :/

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

the chans don't understand understand that they can go to jail for harassment or even sued

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

But that's what I mean. The name and design don't even come from 4chan

Quote from the debate sticky:
"The concept of the longcat originates in the 1400's... It's called a Turkish Angora. It's nickname is the "long cat". Albert Einstein is quoted using the "long cat" in a metaphor to describe the telegram. No one owns it."

I realize that you guys love the longcat. Fanart, fanclubs, the works. I'm trying to ask you guys a few questions, educate myself and others like me. I'm not sitting here making any prior judgments. I simply do not understand. Why can't the cat belong to everyone? Why won't you let us love it, too? I, as a member of Subeta, haven't attacked you and I don't know why I am being attacked on the forums and threatened with hacking.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

sorry hemp, but the majority of the chan site owners have saved themselves by having made raids a bannable offense and not condoned by them. The users are acting independently, so no, you can't go and persecute the sites.

If you think you have the money and time to go through internet legal battles, tracking down each and every user, because these users don't have a single living breathing entity that controls them, then you are extremely deluded. Besides, if certain things that keith has done are true, than he is actually in the same pot as many of the channers. (ie, ddos attacks and haranguing people outside his site.)

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Hemp,
Good luck with that. Also, don't forget that people may be in other countries, or be using proxies from other countries.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

debilee, dont get all covert ops on us. No one said the users of subeta did anything. Its all been keith and some of the admins. I wouldn't expect you to know right off the bat what they have done, I sure didn't. But i went to the chans and i browsed. I also browsed in our forums, and thats how you come to know the whole of the picture.

What you're asking people to do is just reject anything that sounds bad or lays blame on anyone but the chans, which is just ridiculous. You are asking people to act and think out of ignorance of the situation.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

What 99 percent of the people I've heard from who want the Longcat gone seem to be forgetting is a little thing called the real world. The chans are breaking laws. They are committing punishable offenses. Stop thinking of these people as faceless masses of evil; they are real people sitting behind computers, and protected by proxies or not, if Subeta were to subpoena the company who does know who these people are, we're talking fines. Dare I say, jail time. Excuse the loaded words, but this is internet terrorism firing against human rights. Subeta has every legal right to use the public domain concept of the Longcat, and some of you need to shake yourself loose from the internet world and consider what's actually going on here.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

longcat is a goal
getting hal to remove the personal info is a goal.
These are all just goals. In chan raids, when goals are met, the raids die out. When you give them new goals, you risk perpetuating the raids.

There is no guarantee that the attacks will stop and the channers will never bother you again, well, except for all the past raids and how they have functioned. But if you want to disregard history, then so be it.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

I dont see what all the fuss is about....

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Bug,
This site could have kept Longcat WITHOUT any trouble at all. The majority of Anonymous would simply not care. The "provocation" is from making fun of Anonymous. In the source code of the front page, there was a statement making fun of Anonymous, among other things Keith has done. Memes can spread anywhere, that is fine and good.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

And Anonymous thinks that it's a bit bigger than it actually is... Seriously, though, I had never heard of any chans/Anonymous prior to what... five days ago? Someone said that our sage item from the spells shop is even in some way offensive to them when it's... just sage... an herb... like the basil, rosemary, etc. in there. So what are they going to want next? Obviously all they're trying to do is turn our own users against us and make them think that we knew and did things that we di NOT, the ancient divide and conquer tactic. That's why we need you to back us in this, don't let them win you over with their propaganda. The only information on your account is whatever e-mail you used to sign up with and the date you joined. That's it.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Ok then, Azurejars;

If the Longcat was removed, or at least edited; what would stop the attacks? I mean- it's no real secret that there is some new and very nasty blood going on now.

I don't much care about the cat, personally. But I don't want to have someone coming back at Keith and this site again and again even after when/if the cat was removed.

I'm the first one to want to fight this till the end, but I don't want Keith getting hurt- this has been taking to a point that it just showed that some people have reality issues. If Removing the cat will keep Keith safe, and stop the attacks, I am for it.

But I don't know if it would do it. You understand what I am saying?

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Quote:

; border: 1px solid ; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10;">The stickied thread in the debate forums had a lot of information on the subject from pages 27-30. I can't remember more specifically which posts or which pages. but if your read through those, there are some links and informative material.

There's also some talk of the actual legal aspects of what's going on on page 10-11 I think.

I voted to keep the longcat. Knowing the staff have made the decision to keep it thus far, I feel that voting to keep it doesn't necessarily give the Longcat a guaranteed home on Subeta, but rather, maintains that it's up to the staff.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Well, then I guess I don't understand the "provocation," as you call it. A meme (by definition, since I had to look this little gem up) is a "a unit of cultural evolution and diffusion." Since when can internet cultures not cross the boundaries of URLs? Maybe I'm just not familiar with your ways, and that's fine. I just don't see how using the concept of a long cat, even if you do hold it sacred (it's not like we have removed it from your or your site), is even comparable to posting personal and potentially hazardous personal information. I love the longcat, it's great, I can see why you love it too. I haven't seen or heard of any examples of Keith lying. I just don't get it... why can't we love the longcat just as much as you guys? We're not attacking you in any way.

Sorry if I'm posting too much. I just want to get a clearer understanding about all this.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Raevaine,
Originally it WAS about the longcat. As I said, this site has no other reasons to be attacked. This site is not important enough, and it is not bad enough. Only people like Hal Turner are attacked mercilessly because of his horrible racism.

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