Right? It's just super frustrating to me that after all this time, after countless people have unintentionally done this, that they're saying something. We definitely need an alternative if something like this isn't allowed because you literally CANNOT expect anyone in their right mind to use direct to shop after this. It's literally the only way to get things that don't fill onsite at a reasonable price.

Makes sense why staff intended cw's to originally be amongst friends/private things....The cost alone would of kept it from blowing up like it has if the rules had been enforced from the get go. Which brings me to the question, Why wasn't it enforced? Makes you wonder!

This isn't a hidden rule. This has been a rule since the ability to control how many batches you were submitting became a thing.

If you say something will be 1 batch and submit it direct to cash shop, you are essentially submitting it as unlimited. That is considered scamming. It has been. This is absolutely NOTHING new. It's the same as saying something will be 1 batch and submitting it as 2 or 3 or 10 or unlimited. Now we don't go around checking EVERY thread for every custom item to make sure your publicly-stated submission matches how you submit it -- but if it gets reported, you can (and generally will) get a scamming warning for it. We cannot police HOW many items are being released if you do direct to cash shop. That is why saying something will be a certain number of batches and submitting it direct to shop is not allowed.

Every time you submit a CW, you agree that you are releasing only the publicly stated number of batches:

I'm honestly not sure why this has become such a big deal all of a sudden, as it has literally been this way for years.

The easiest thing to do? Unless you are CERTAIN you want an item to either be a) unlimited or b) extremely limited... put the batches as "TBD". Get interest first, figure out how many slots you can fill, THEN release it. THAT is not scamming. That is you honestly saying "I don't know how popular this will be or how many batches it will be." It really can be (and is!) that simple.

FWIW, We have been discussing the possibility of lowering the number of items required to fill a batch. We haven't set a date in stone for when this will possibly launch so please do not ask, but we are working on it. The idea will hopefully be to allow you to submit a batch with 5 slots rather than 10 with a small surcharge (like 50-100 CSC, not double the price or anything like that). We are working on the logistics of it still, but it is in the works. Hopefully that will solve a lot of these issues. Until then, I recommend doing the above if you are really concerned about it!

-squishes-

That's what my ticket was clarifying unfortunately - staff said we absolutely all were supposedly aware of this rule and it's always been that way, and they've been punishing people for using the direct option even if they never sold beyond the stated copies as it's reported to them, because it's scamming to say you may have to submit it directly but will only sell the originally stated copies (in one of the screenshots you can see my shop disclaimer that I asked about and was told is still scamming). They have been punishing folks for this rule that was never stated, that's the concern now =/

I agree completely - it's insanely unrealistic to assume we could afford to cover slots for every item that doesn't fill the full batch.

You're saying this is obviously clear but, looking at the thread so far, isn't it actually unclear? Look at how many people were unaware of this.

Also, I'd really like to know what's happening to us who have done this because we didn't know better? If I report all the times I've done this that I can remember, will I simply receive one warning, or one warning per infraction? Am I potentially going to be banned from CWs? Does this pass onto official site warnings? Could I potentially get frozen and banned from the site for this?

I'd really, really like to know. I am literally panicking over here and have been since I read this. I /need/ to know what to do right now.

While I get the TBD thing on principle, it often makes people not slot/more hesitant to slot.

I'm much less likely to slot on something that says TBD because it is often a game of well if it's limited I may not be able to get it later, and if it's unlimited or tbd, who cares I don't need it.

I guess it's good to know the rules now.

I guess it wasn't as obviously clear as I thought it was since so many people seem confused. I just don't get where all the sudden confusion is coming from. It has been this way for years and suddenly it is coming out of nowhere. Apparently I was wrong -- but this is NOT a new rule. Submitting to cash shop = submitting as unlimited, so therefor saying something is one slot and then submitting it as unlimited (including direct to cash shop) = scamming.

That being said, I'm not planning on hunting everything down like crazy to give you guys all a warning. We have been VERY lenient with this rule as of late because there does seem to be so much confusion.

So here is what I am proposing and recommending at this time: Submit a ticket and /let me know/. Ask the ticket to be transferred to me (I'll grab it if I see it first but that doesn't usually happen!) and let me know that you have done this in the past. I don't need EVERY specific example. I will flag your account to say that you CANNOT be issued warnings before this date (the date you submit a ticket) for saying something would be x-batch and submitting it directly to the gash shop. From that moment on, you WILL be responsible for future releases, but we'll grant you a pass on the past.

To answer your questions: Yes, you can potentially get frozen for this (scamming is an official warning, not a verbal, and if you get three of the same official warning you can get frozen). I have yet to see anyone get frozen for JUST this reason, nor have I banned anyone from CWs for this reason. Pretty much the only way you get banned from CWs is by submitting stolen art OR by refusing to list your references repeatedly. It honestly hasn't happened in quiiite a while.

(Pinging one more time because of the above, sorry for the double pings!)

I quoted that on the first page. Release limits are being matched, so how is it scamming to only sell the stated number of copies. I stated I would release 10 copies, I released 10 copies (technically 9 because I was given one copy upon approval so only 9 copies were ever added to my shop).

I have done this on items where other paid staff members and/or mods were slotted. I have never once been informed that it was not allowed. Literally never once told "oh hey, you can't actually do that."

That is the issue. This is obviously unclear, considering just how many people have already stated they were not aware that you couldn't use the direct option and still limit the copy sales to match your stated limits. The wording on the submission page is unclear, because it basically tells you that you cannot sell more copies than you stated you would sell, it does not say you understand that you must submit the exact number of batches which matches your stated batch limit (also, why is it not scamming if the reverse is done - you promise people it will be 2 batches but you only submit it as a single batch item and that is okay? still telling a lie about limits right?).

In those tickets you state batch limits MUST BE CLEAR and cannot be stated as saying "2-3 or submitted direct to shop if it doesn't fill", we have to "pick one or the other". So how is it then okay to set limits as TBD? I'm sorry, but this is really ridiculously not clear.

[edit] FWIW, this isn't 'coming out of nowhere'. Someone asked about this in a ticket because they were hit up for something related, and then they let a few other people know. That is what lead to my ticket, which you can clearly see in my initial ticket query.

Thank you very much for this. Despite the frustration and confusion, I'm sure many of us still appreciate your willingness to help us.

I appreciate the clarification and effort you're making to make this right. At least we know now and won't suddenly and retroactively be banned. Appreciated.

Unfortunately this is a situation where we NEED to go off what is stated by the user. There are too many people that will say "2-3 batches or submitted direct to shop" who will then take advantage of the vagueness of the situation. I know it sounds the same as saying "TBD" but it isn't, and unfortunately we have dealt with way more of the former being an issue. Is it a case of "one (or some) bad apples spoil the bunch"? Yes, but unfortunately that's the way it is.

On a similar note, I have yet to have ANYONE complain about something being said it will be 2 batches and then only being submitted as 1 due to lack of interest. Hopefully that ALSO doesn't become a problem. Most people are not charging a premium for something that they can't fill slots on, where the bigger issue is people saying something will be 1 batch, charging extra for it, realizing it was popular and they can make more money, and submitting an extra batch or two.

Despite what (some) people may believe, I do not WANT any of you to get warnings or get banned! Trust me. I very very rarely like giving people warnings (unless it's like. absolutely blatant art theft, but come on, that's a given). I like working with you guys. I like my job. I like looking at CWs! I'm sorry that I thought this was pretty clear when it wasn't, but I'm hoping this will help.

[edit] Just realized I forgot to check the 'official post' on any of my above posts. Pretend they are all marked as such ;)

Not gonna add to your pings Jessi ;0 but thank you for giving a heads up on this!

I think Ive used the direct-to-shop feature when I sometimes get denials of items and want them to get approved without notifying the other slotted users. Now that I know that it`s clearly a no-go, Ill be sure to stick to what I state on the posts ;x (and also submit a ticket on this!)

thank you for bringing this board up babe =0 it helped a lot of peopleeee

Okay, thank you for the clarification on the issue and for the pass for those of us who really and truly did not intend to do anything that would've been seen as (or actually been) scamming.

In the future I will make sure to continue with using the TBD instead.

It is a shame that some bad apples have ruined the ability to trust the rest of us are not doing that. I try to make sure it's very clear and transparent what I'm doing and why, but this at least addresses that issue.

Would it be possible to have this stated more clearly either in the submission agreement textbox (or in the direct to shop text on the submission page), that way it's very clearly outlined where anyone submitting is apt to not at all miss it?

[edit] I'm gonna go ahead and put that response in my first post as well, so folks know what they need to do now and in the future.

Yes, please feel free to add it to the first post here so people can see it. And I'll see about having a programmer add a note to the submission form as well.

[edit] ALSO - FWIW, please always feel free to ping me to threads like this!! I honestly don't check the forums much other than the art forum, so pinging me is always welcome AND appreciated!

MAN i think we were all mega aware of this rule, but didn't at all have it in mind in the scenario of "hey cuties i can't afford to front the last 5 slots so i'm going to direct-to-shop it then send out invites", because in most scenarios where a 1b item becomes direct-to-shop, that winds up being 3 - 5 invites out, (in the 3 setting, assuming the last two copies are artist & submitter ones). and yet it's still totally unlimited because of the way dts currently works (i'd love to see dts encompass batch numbers, i've never personally understood why it doesn't but i assumed it was a coding thing or smth).

anyway, for me, that absolutely doesn't click with me right away mentally since it's still only so few invites out.

From the backend tho tbh, like ik unpopular opinion from a releaser at least, but this completely makes sense to me and i agree with it. I wish we'd all kind of realized this sooner as a collective (why was this spread around in private and not just HEY GUYS HEADS UP thread???) because it's just...something that doesn't come to mind? but it's WAY easier to keep tabs on scamming (like, actual, actively scamming individuals looking to take advantage-- not just mistakes/unaware folks such as most of us in this thread) by checking batch numbers than by seeing how many copies are actually floating around (at least i'm assuming, because that sounds super messy).

Would it be viable to state something like "1 batch, unless X slots fill", along with some addendum covering direct-to-shop/unlimited? even as simple stating, "if it can't fill 1 batch, it will be unlimited via direct to shop"? I know it's way easier and less complicated to say "batches TBD", but I ask simply because it's MEGA off-putting for slotters & buyers to have no idea if their slot is going to hold any value/resale value/etc. 1 batch vs unlimited w/ only so many invites is a very different scenario than a potential 3+ batch. edit: you maybe answered this while i was typing SORRY IF I'M MAKING YOU REPEAT YOURSELF

also!! why in the world was this discussed only in private/warned ppl in private!! this kind of discussion and info is critical to so many ppl in this thread alone who weren't informed privately, and to the community as a whole. why keep it hush hush when folks can get/have gotten warnings!! whaaaaat!

I did (and recommended they do please read all of the responses and reasons)! Thank you again!

No worries! I didn't realize this was a thing and wanted to make sure people were aware to avoid getting in trouble.

I am trying to think of a way to word it that is not going to come across terribly. It seems like a LOT of you would be okay with it saying "1 batch unless X slots fill" but it is just SO difficult to police. For right now, let's do the TBD but I am going to think on it tonight/tomorrow and let you guys know, okay? :)

ALSO tomorrow is going to update the actual CW submission form to say this, so hopefully that will help as well:

YEAH i caught up on what I missed while I was typing (i love me a good novella*** lmao)!! and I honestly can't disagree with that logic just because it is way easier to police. it's kind of that weird grey area between "it's transparent that it'll be unlimited" vs "people will still assume it's 1b only slots even tho ... etc".

***I MEANT MY 12 PARAGRAPHS WHY CAN'T I WORDS WITHOUT SOUNDING SO RUDE TODAY O M G

forgive me if this has already been covered since I'm just skimming on my phone, does this also apply to 'unlimited for 24 hours' events?