That's a stupid rule. I state 1-2 batch submission when I release things but I also have it started in my shop rules that things are submitted as unlimited to cover slotted people but no more then 10 or 20 will usually ever be on site

Here is my ticket to staff and the replies I got. I hope this can be useful for all the releasers, since the "TBD" seems to be the best option for us to name batches at the moment, due to the rules.

part 1 part 2 part 3 part 4 part 5

I used to have something similar on my shop too, but as you can see, staff also consider this as scamming even if you state what you're going to do beforehand. Please, check my tickets.

I know a lot of people have been doing this too, I think I may have done it a couple times too, but I honestly can't remember. Lately I haven't been stating how many batches something is just to avoid that problem all together, or so not to set any expectations at all for buyers. I can't afford to DTS if I don't sell tho, so that hasn't been an option for awhile... but yeah. Hopefully this gets cleared up. And we don't see like a mass-freezing of users over it >>;

I think mostly it's that it isn't clearly stated what this rule is exactly until you've already broken it w/out actually understanding it in the first place. There will always be others that break the rules that messes it all up for everyone else- but I do think the solution for staff is to give the option to set limits to a direct-to-shop option, so it's not just unlimited. Of course you will probably still see those that are intent on scamming, still doing so- but if they're going to keep doing so, eventually they'll be caught.

I think most ppl don't realize this is a real problem- but I think it also has to do with those that stated they have a limit batch- but then can't even fill one batch, so they put it directly in so to get it on site, but because the option is set up as 'unlimited' only- it's punishing people who didn't want to wait forever to get one batch filled and had no intent on scamming and staff can clearly see if someone sold a ton of copies or didn't... so yeah, I don't think the rule needs to be removed so much as perhaps updated or something... 8I

I did this with like 8 items in December alone, if my memory serves me. T____T I am 100% going to get the ban hammer dropped on me and I'm freaking out so much right now.

I'm with

How is this all of a sudden a thing?

I knew it was against rules to say something will be one batch then decide to slot for 4 batches because of higher demand but I didn't know that we couldn't push an item through ourselves due to lack of interest.

Everyone ever involved in cw's has pushed things through due to lack of interest at some point just to get it on site.

Wow :/ I've done this myself in the past.

That's just stupid.
Esp when we end up having to direct to shop so much. Granted I only usually place 10 copies in shop to sell when I do it that way.

At this point may just be smarter to direct to shop EVERYTHING not even bother to nslot and go from there. Closing shop boards.

This is super frustrating for 1 batch items that don't fill. If we submit direct to shop and only give those people copies, it seems like it would be reasonably easy to see if it were abused.

They'd have to freeze a LOT of CW releasers for breaking this hidden rule. Why have direct to shop if it's that useless? Who would choose to put something direct to shop unless it didn't fill? It's REALLY high priced to submit direct to shop so this really makes me wonder why staff would make the option available and then limit it in such a way.

You're right it's easy to tell since shops keep count of how many copies are sold. It tells you exactly how many are sold for every single item you put in your shop so this should be easy for staff to monitor

Not much point taking slots if additional hidden rules are going to pop up, Things like this make me wonder why cw's became a reality. All rules should have been made clear in the beginning, If I had known this I'd of probably not bothered with cw's much at all.

I have not been punished at this time, but yes. You are expected to front the cost of the full submission price (or whatever portion thereof your slotters don't cover) if you do not fill a batch and you have stated the item will have X number of batches. If you either haven't stated a batch limit, or stated the item is unlimited, you are welcome to submit direct-to-shop.

No problem! I want to make sure nobody gets in trouble from here on out for a rule they didn't know existed!

Yeah, a lower number of slots required will definitely help alleviate some of this. But if you've got a whole 2 people slotted on an item, and you already are taking care of your copy and the artist copy, covering the submission cost for 6 other slots is pretty dang pricey.

Yeah, the rule was never explicitly stated anywhere, nor was it updated to reflect the current methods. I definitely think there needs to be a clearly defined rules page, not a game of guesswork and hunting through multiple locations.

While I understand the point, staff can see how many copies I've sold (I've asked them to confirm when shops were newer because I didn't think I was credited properly). Also, it's not really feasible to pay 5k to submit something that has 4 copies sold - it just isn't. Moving remaining batches to the CW Shop and selling extra copies in our user shops is not a guarantee of recouping the cost. The appeal of direct-to-shop for many of us was that we could use that option on items that didn't slot well. I have had to do this with a large number of items, including items staff members have slotted on, and not once has any one of them told me I was not allowed to do this. Rules need to be clearly defined and outlined in an easily accessible place.

I.. don't even know what to say about this at this point. If this was going to be a rule, it should have been stated somewhere easily accessible. If this was going to be a rule, it should have been enforced from the get-go. If this was going to be a rule, it shouldn't have been basically ignored for multiple years, because I've never heard of this at all and I've been releasing CWs since 2015, which should be ample time in which to find out about a rule severely limiting the use of direct submission.

At this point, unless staff really wants to ban/freeze/punish in some form at least 75% of their active CW releasers/artists, I don't think we can really be held responsible for not knowing something that obviously wasn't clear, or even somewhere that most of us would think to look - one spoiler in one thread is not accessible. And even if it were stated in other places, I personally do not think that wording is very clear. That rule only makes sense under the old model, in which releasers had absolutely no control over the number of copies sold when an item was placed in the cash shop.

I don't think I've got much to worry about personally because I'm very loose with my batch limits and don't tend to state them until I've deduced that it's unlikely that anyone else will slot on an item (I really don't like telling people they can't have a public item if they ask for it within a reasonable time frame), but I could be wrong, I don't know anymore. I do know that a ton of people I know have done this and seriously doubt any of them have abused it. I don't understand why - if this is going to be a rule - we can't submit items directly with batch limits instead of unlimited, or why this was ignored for years but is still, apparently, a rule.

Thank you for the ping, you absolute darling. I had no idea this was even a thing since the old model of the cash shop got dumped.

Hey, I really think this is gonna be okay - so many of us have done this that staff probably couldn't punish us to that extent without ruining the CW community altogether, and I doubt that anyone wants that. This wasn't stated clearly and at this point, I'm not sure what can really be done because even finding original batch limits for some items is literally impossible now due to edits, the forum overhaul, etc.

In addition, while I understand that it would be considered scamming to buy/give out/use more copies than were originally stated, if that isn't what is being done? This is punishing people for funneling money into the site despite an item not filling a batch.

We're paying for a service, getting the few people who did slot their copies, and getting a slap on the wrist? Doesn't seem very encouraging for continuing to release.

I just... I mean from what I can remember tho I'd rather be open and honest about it, even if it gets me in trouble. I didn't mean to do anything wrong T____T I'd hate to do more wrong by not admitting to everything I remember.

If this rule stays the same in the future it will be a nail in the cw community coffin because people can't afford to cover the full cost of submission all the time :/

We can limit how many copies go into our shop and staff CAN see how many sold, so it's something they are able to track... if they're gonna make this a rule, they should make it a rule that you can't edit posts where you've released items since so many people have edited them to try and get around the rules and once a post is edited, staff can't do a thing.

So much this!

I understand the rule is there to prevent even one person from taking advantage of a weakness in the system, but a majority of us STILL stick to our batch limits even if we submitted it direct to shop.

I think the thing is, that they have to actually look on your selling thread to find the post that actually states the batch limit. Some ppl have gotten around this I believe by editing their post... and I guess the system doesn't save the edits? I dunno.... and that's harder to police because it's harder to know exactly what post it was you posted about the item for sale. Also, some people edit their first posts only, and so once a new item goes up for sale, there's no way to know what the old item was or what was stated about it because it's no longer on the post (perhaps that's a reason for this method as well? I dunno, I'd hate to think it's done for the purpose of removing stated batch limits so someone can't be given a warning about anything when there's no proof). BUT... I dunno.

I too think this'll be okay... and how long as the direct to shop option been around? I can't even remember... but if I remember right when it first was introduced, everyone basically was so glad for the option for the specific reason of being able to submit to the shop in case the first batch didn't fill- it was never specifically stated that if you give a batch limit that you can't direct to shop it because it could be considered scamming... so don't set batch limits. Batch limits became a thing due to the hardness of the cw market in the first place which strain came from another thing the staff put out with the pawn shop! So... basically being punished for a result of their own doing? Bleh to that.

Thank you for the ping! :*

I definitely think the staff needs to do something about this. To assume that people have, or are even willing to drop 5k to submit something is ridiculous. Most people don't have those funds sitting around for something that obviously failed to fill a batch, so is being direct to shopped as a result. They should really implement a 1 batch direct to shop option or something that allows people to submit to the shop but with a limited number of copies. We aren't made of money or CSC. :/

Exactly that...if we could just indicate batch limits when submitting DTS, this would be non-issue.

Heck, it means that the staff wouldn't have to spend extra time and money on policing.

Oh, no, I don't think you're wrong for that! I'm just saying that I don't think you need to worry about it quite so much because the CW market honestly might collapse if they banned everyone that has done that, and I doubt staff wants that.

Yeah, I'm not happy about this. I honestly thought this rule was dropped when the cash shop was overhauled. It absolutely made sense with the old model in which releasers had no control over the number of copies sold in the cash shop, but it doesn't with the current one since staff can see how many copies are sold as well as the releaser. I don't know why we can't just submit things directly with batch limits instead of only as unlimited.