This, yes. I hate the games. A few of them are ok, but in general, I'd rather eat my foot than play these games. I used to do the Wizard Quests, but even with autopricer, I hate getting all that worthless crap. So no more Wizard quests except if he is the weekend quest. I guess I can try fragmentizing it next time (which I will do,) but please, please, PLEASE don't mess with Saggi's quests. He is the only source of income I have now except when I haul some item out of my wardrobe to sell. And I hate doing that because I am here mainly for the HA stuff...

[edit] When I say a few are ok, I mean in the sense that they are more like a somewhat distasteful household chore rather than going to a job you hate. None of them are actually fun. Caliph's Tomb (if you win=20,000 sP) and Memory (15-25k) are the games I play because they are at least tolerable and have a decent payout.

if the sp smelter were to fluctuate its smelting charges (3-10k/1 rbp) and have rb shop to stock LE rotational/seasonal stock in the price range of 250-1500 rbp . You would have more of a sp sink and more rb items in the market .

Isn't there some kind of in-between option to tweak the vending system? Are the only options to leave them as they are or get rid of them? I don't vend ever so it wouldn't really affect me, but what if each machine limited you to like ~50 vends a day? Maybe increase the token charge by 1-3 tokens?

What if users could pay sP for a one-time Autoprice in their shop? Talk about an sP sink. Maybe like ~5M for one use of the Autopricer without a GA? (Current price of a 1 Week GA in shops is 5.6M.)

See, my only problem with the Crystal Shop restocks is the limited number of stock for items. So many people have outrageous amounts of crystals from vending and the fact the shop is stocked so rarely, that regular users who don't vend don't even have a shot at the items. It's like the Token Shop, if tokens took hours/days to collect enough to buy an item. And in the meantime, it sells out. Most of the items in there now are plushies or minions ... the only reason I still occasionally frag is in the hopes the shop stocks again. :P What if MKBs were added to the Crystal Shop? Or other popular, repeat-use items?

I really don't understand this mentality. It's a donation center. People should feel free to donate whatever they want to. Personally I collect junk like this so I would hate to see it banned because people are just wanting to profit from the DC.

If it's because it's hard to find expensive stuff when people quit, I would think you would be grateful. If everything was on one page it would be really hard to snag more than one item.

The reason that they have limited numbers is because we want to ensure that the items retain value. The crystal shop is meant for old/retired/not going to be released by any other means again items that we put out because there aren't enough of on the site.

Whispers Secondskin Slides cupcake your way while nodding

I can say without a doubt if vending is completely removed from the site, I will have absolutely zero reason to buy a GA ever again. I can't be the only one who feels that way.

I think a big problem here is the expectation that items retain value. That's important to some people, but not everyone. I could care less if my items retain 'value' (monetary), I like things because I like them or I have a use for them.

I imagine removing vending would also drastically affect the prices of wearables. I bet the only reason new-ish wearables deflate at a decent rate is because Ocean Depths gives them out. And it's STILL a pain if say, Item Hunt asks for a newly released item...

I know some of the larger stuff I've considered (like an sP option for pet overlays) might not be viable, but what about some smaller stuff?

Smaller money sinks I was considering the other day: [li]Change MKBS to range between 2-4 slots, at the moment the chance of only getting 1 slot is so annoyingly high I end up ignoring MKBs and buying Multi-compartments from the CS instead. Good revenue but not working to get my sP away from me. Considering the number of items on site now, I don't think increasing MKB's chances of more slots by 1 really damages too much. [li]Move to somewhere permanent say the MC and give it the change to give out 1 TC slot for say 50k. How often have I needed 1 slot and gotten 3... I curse those 2 empty slots I say. [li]Stat eraser put he into the MC for around 100,000 - 200,000sP, it allows users to delete 1 stat of any stat they like -- I'm scared to have Cid Highwind as my active pet so I can never show him off, he's at level 26 (and important number) and all his stats are the same. I hate stopping training on a pet only to find out their stats aren't even, I doubt I'm the only one, I'd happy drop sP into the MC for this. I actually have a lot of pets I want to get to level 100 then stop training, I will be sad when I notice their stats are all over the place. [li]Magical Curios Cabinet: similar to the MKB, 10mil price tag? Allows you to transfer TC slots from one pet to another -- possibly counter intuitive to using MKBs as a sP sink, maybe limit it's use e.g.: one use only, 10,000,000sP = 66 MKBs from the MC (ish), presume 2 slots from each = 132. One Magical Curios Cabinet could allow you to move only 125 TC slots at a given time. If the pet has 130 then it would be cheaper to buy more MKBs to get that last few 5, so end cost would be around 10,450,000, depending on the slots given by the MKB.

Not sure the TC slot transfer is do able though, I think I remember someone saying it can't actually be done.

to original poster: Quit your whining and get back to the Slots grind.

Okay...wow. I actually read thru this whole thread and I think I've forgotten half the points I wanted to make but .....

Avg sp/user. This is actually a bad statistic to use when talking about income/wealth. The better one to use is median as it reflects the majority of users somewhat more accurately (I'll just leave the boring statistical reason out, but trust me on that one). Is this possible to calculate and is there a way to do it for active users only?

Quests vs games. I like doing both of these activities, so my thing here isn't about "stop whining and go play games" or "waaah I hate games, I don't wanna!". I'm more interested in hearing a response to this question which has been raised several times: why nerf quests and immediately add a bunch of new sp-generating games? Net effect is still the same. Or is it? Definitely interested to hear whether and how it changed the amount and source of sp entering the site.

Rambling opinions on the quest changes.Right now I'm somewhat ambivalent on the changes so far, and mostly waiting to see what the economy looks like as the dust settles and what I'll need to change to update my sp making strategy. However, that is not the attitude I had when quest changes were first being introduced. I definitely thought then that the "revamps" were going to be the ruin of the site....and honestly, so far they haven't been. I haven't taken near the hit in sp-making ability that I thought I would, nor has my shop just spluttered and died because everyone rage quit questing. That isn't to say things haven't changed, certainly. They have. Just not as drastically as I first feared. So I guess the moral here is to recognize that the short-term effects of any single change aren't necessarily the shape of the site in times to come and to not get too worried if things look bad for a couple of months, because they will balance out in the end.

What if for some site features, like the new Pet Overlay feature and changing pet/user names, an sPs option were available beside just CSC? People don't change their pet's name that quickly/often, username changes could have a wait time of 1 month between changes, and you could probably charge 1 mil or more for the overlays.

That could seriously delete sPs out. Dunno, just randomly musing some thoughts here. xP

I honestly don't know why the hell people are complaining.

I just came back from a 2-3 year hiatus after being inappropriately banned. Was I surprised that quests changed? Yes. Am I angry about it? No. I do all my quests every day. I've been back for maybe two weeks and I've saved up 20 million sP. I don't see the problem here. That's a lot of freaking money...

Granted, RSing isn't as effective as it was 6 years ago. At least that's what I've noticed. I only go after UBs such as an Ornate Floral Pitcher or stat boosters, if I have the patience to sit there long enough for them to RS. Takes forever to sell too, unless I undercut horribly. xD

I would suggest putting more things in the RB that people want. Books, etc. And find a use for those darn plugs that Drills gives out.

I restock to make most of my sP. I rarely ever do quests - only the wizard ones and usually only when he is the weekend quest. I just do it for the tokens to zap Lizard. Once he's zapped into the experiment I'm going for i will just sell the tokens.

I really enjoy restocking so I don't mind the amount of time it takes. :3

Nowadays I can't make any money on Subeta. I've been putting hours and hours worth of time into the site.... x3 time with not even half amount of money I used to make. IDK. I've been getting 1250 CSC a month (Without counting my GA, which I can't live without) and... Now I'm having serious problems keeping up with my 'quota' that I've had all year, and haven't had an issue on. Since most quests now give out little to no SP, I've noticed a drop in sales in my shop. Probably because less people do the quests now. At least that's what seems to be happening from my POV.

My God, you solved it. We need to do all of these things yesterday.

[edit]

Also can I say that on Neopets I have 14mil np and I feel super rich because the most expensive thing that I really want to buy right now is 2.4mil. If we can delete sp from the economy, we can get there here on Subeta. But you have to target the people who have the billions. Putting a wearable in the MC for 5mil isn't going to really do anything but cost users on the lower end a decent percentage of their sp. You need to cater more to the people who have the billions. have some really good ideas that they've posted here on how to do that :D

I actually really like . But in an edited way. Maybe instead of a Reading Drive, we could do a Clothing Drive or a Food Drive. Just something different.

Maybe the sP return on games could be lowered but every weekend there is both a Weekend Quest and a Weekend game. Or maybe find a middle ground for both quests and games. Possibly that they could both give out a few thousand sP and an item or two.

I'm not completely upset with the way things have changed, but I am slightly. I made money by doing Wiz quests and then vending. I buy a GA to autoprice (like you pointed out). Some quests just aren't worth it any more - even with the change. I know they're not meant to always make us a good amount of profit, but it seems like some are there for no other reason than to lure you in so you waste sP XD

All in all, though, I still love this site and will stay as long as I can because I came mostly for the community. (And the non game driven economy :] )