Subeta -

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Oh, they're beautiful! 8D Keshi did a wonderful job on the Keeto, despite the arguments.... While the old one was cute and charming, the anatomy was way off. There was no belly, the leg was connected to its shoulder. It had three legs. The wings looked like they weren't the keetos, like a ghost behind it, they didn't even look connected. The head was way to big. It looked nothing like a Keeto. And the little shading there was was nearly invisible. But the new one has wonderful shading and colouring, the anatomy errors were fixed, and it's beautiful. I honestly don't see why some people have a problem with it, although I think it's mainly the smile and eyes. And the ear is kinda strange, it has no border. However, the big problems were fixed, and the re-vamp is lovely. As for the Kanis, I really like the fire, and the colouring is cool, and I also love the expression. Kudos to the artists, I love them! 8D I want both of them. <3

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

WHAT. You just ruined the angelic keeto. Sorry.

Well I'm glad that I chose an angelic celinox instead.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Quote:

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So...
According to your previous comments:
If a greater amount of people, as is seen in these comments, want the old art back, it should be given back, with minor tweaks in order to "fix it up".

Well it's not that it never happened before with items. As far as I know the Halovil was created because people thought the revamp was nothing like the original and the Emancipate was revamped twice because the first revamp wasn't so popular and now look at it, it's so much prettier than the original.
I'm sorry if you think we shouldn't have hoped for something similar considering many owners complained. But you're right this isn't a poll and our opinion isn't needed here.
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From all the posts that have been made on here, yours included, the criticism doesn't seem to be so much about the changes, rather about the style the new AK is drawn in.
Everyone who likes the old AK likes the old style it was drawn in, and doesn't like the new style the new one is drawn in.

I wouldn't say it's the style. The angelic keeto, in my opinion, looks a lot like the graveyard one. They have the same thin body and small head. And many people here said that they loved it, including me (One of my pets actually used to be a GK before I changed him).
Also I don't think it's fair to say people don't like the new style, personally I think the new keeto is perfect and consistent with the other keetos that I love. It's just that I like the old one better despite its flows :/
I guess what really bothers me most is the fact that I now live in fear that any of my pets could be radically changed overnight

[quote]Holy crap, really? Then I can let the feli go through, and then draw all my future pets boneless? That's awesome O: No one will have the right to complain c8[/quot]
Well if you think that a boneless pet is the same as one who has a slightly big head or some anatomical imperfections that only people who draw notice, then go ahead!

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

The artwork is great. But. Some of these new chubby, shiny Pets seem to look a bit too much like plastic toys lately :S

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

I think the angelic keeto was prettier before!

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

I think the angelic keeto was prettier before!

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

I think the angelic keeto was prettier before!

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Actually, by responding, you did gratify it with a response. Thank you.

From all the posts that have been made on here, yours included, the criticism doesn't seem to be so much about the changes, rather about the style the new AK is drawn in.
Everyone who likes the old AK likes the old style it was drawn in, and doesn't like the new style the new one is drawn in.
That's what it comes down to, and its basically the same argument used when the Reborn Keeto was
revamped.
I should know, I made it myself.
So this is all just a critique/criticism of the style, which, if you look at both the Glacier and Reborn Keetos, is pretty consistent with the Keeto look.
The muzzle is no wider than the common Keeto, and the legs are no more stumpier than the common or Glacier Keetos. The only leg that is going to taper here is the one held in the air, and if you compare it to the commons you'd see that it is pretty-near identical.
The head is smaller because now it matches proportion-wise, and the eyes are also now in proportion. The old AK's eyes were taking up half its brain-space, really.
I see no reason as to why the mane can't be fluffy, considering both the glacier and chibi Keeto's mane's are fluffier than the common Keeto's.
If you're looking at colors, you might want to compare the AK to the newer-created Angelic pets. The Manchu, Popoko, Archan, Aeanoid all have very dynamic colors and shading, and even though the APopoko is pale, it is nowhere near as flat as the older Angelics, old AK included. I'm sure that when other Angelics get revamped, there will be a trend to move them into a deeper color scheme, making them more dynamic. I mean, the new AK fits in perfect with the newest Angelics, its the old Angelics that are looking a but dull.
You said before that this is a graphics based site, and that its graphics should be the best possible. I suggest heading on over to subetahq and checking out the Angelic page, and seeing just what pets on there look the most dynamic.

The whole criticism here, however, all it comes down to the style it was drawn in, and considering that Keshi's been doing the Keetos lately, I'd say that she'd been doing a dang good job keeping the one's she's done consistent.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

...

Wow, that was such a stunning demonstration of utter failure to comprehend anything I've said in this entire post, I don't even feel like gratifying it with a response. Repeating myself got old after the 6th time or so, anyway.

In fact, since you only seem interested in attacking me personally using the smallest of examples (wrongly at that) while ignoring the actual point, I don't really need to add anything more at all. My point still stands for anyone who would actually bother to pay attention to it, but I'm not going to go any further off-topic.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

"In adding the 4th leg, the entire posture and structure changed."

Wow. I mean, wow. That's an argument against the new AK? Wow.

I was going to actually respond to your whole comment, but then I read that, and I couldn't . I mean, wow. Adding a fourth leg changed the posture and structure. I mean, I don't know, maybe some people were expecting it wouldn't. Maybe they weren't expecting that in adding a fourth leg, the artist would then go on to consider the weight of the animal, how that weight would be distributed, how it would then sit on the ground correctly. Maybe they thought the artist would just add the leg and forget about the fact that in this 3/4 view the hips are angled slightly, that in the crouch the Keeto is in, the paws would be touching the ground at different angles, that the back must curve a certain way, and the line defining the hip as well. Maybe they thought that when adding the fourth leg the artist won't take into account the line of the belly that becomes visible.

...seriously, I can't get over that. Adding a fourth leg changes the posture and structure. My mind is blown.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

I wasn't condoning calling any artist's work horrible. Old or new. They do have feelings and they don't appreciate having the art they worked hard on labeled as "horrible" or "hurt-my-eyes-to-look-at." Constructive criticism is one thing; insults are another. At least I give valid reasons and am civil, if blunt, when I criticize.

I wasn't referring to you with that statement anyway, Zoshi. It's something that happens with every revamp: if someone puts the new art down, staff and their loyal followers jump all over them for being nasty, but many of them often turn around and say the same kinds of things about the original artist. It's a bit hypocritical.

And yes, the new Angelic Keeto does correct those things that needed correcting. If you were actually paying attention to what I've said and not working so hard to twist it around, you'd see I never denied that.

What I've been saying, again, is that it was taken too far and other aspects were changed that didn't need to be. In "fixing" the shading, the colors themselves were changed. The body was made stumpier and stockier (the common Keeto is compact, but not stumpy. there's a difference - observe the trim tummy and tapering of the legs on the common colors). In adding the 4th leg, the entire posture and structure changed. The expression and head angle changed, dulling its attitude. The head is smaller, and even the features are different (smaller eyes, wider muzzle, thicker mane, etc). This is all compared to common colors, not just the old Angelic.

In other words, like I said, if the old Angelic Keeto was inconsistent with the species, the new one is too - just in different ways.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

The old Angelic Keeto wasn't close to the Keeto physique even Before the Common Keeto was touched up.
And, I still find it amazing how you can't seem to accept the fact that the revamped version does everything you say it "should" have done, namely making it more Keeto-ish.

And trust me, if Keshi had made the same mistake, and given the Keeto a thigh bone that connected to its shoulder bone, I would've called it horrible as well. The old anatomy was plain BAD. Not saying that the image was bad, because it wasn't. It was great enough, but the anatomy was bad, the proportions were hurt-my-eyes-to-look-at, and it just wasn't Keeto enough.
Now it is.

Besides, retouching the Common Keeto wasn't the same thing, because the Common Keeto had fine anatomy, and all it needed was a lineart and shading update. The Angelic needed a whole anatomy overhaul. Totally different things...

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

I love how it's a crime to say anything that could be even remotely construed as an insult in regards to newly released art by any artist, but it's totally fine to say the original artist's hard work was "horrible."

People still don't seem to be getting that even if it did need a revamp, perhaps this particular revamp wasn't the one it needed - namely, something less drastic (like the retouch on the common Keeto colors a while back) would've been more than enough. Fixing the outlines and shading, the hidden leg, and whatever else wasn't "Keeto-ish" enough didn't have to warrant a total overhaul. There's always more than one option when it comes to updating art.

I never said the new art is bad; quality wise, it's fine. It just lacks the attitude, physique, and flow of the original, and of the Keeto species itself. So if the original Angelic Keeto was inconsistent with the Keeto species (which many users clearly don't agree with), this one is just as inconsistent, but for different reasons.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

"Apparently people didn't mind these mistakes that much if they didn't even notice them. And who says the keeto could walk, maybe it could only fly and the legs were there to complete the looks XD
It's an imaginary pet, who cares if it's a bit er ... anatomically incorrect ^^;"

If we started drawing all of our pets anatomically incorrect.. EVERYONE would be complaining. So why should the old Angelic Keeto get away with it?

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Yes, I did... I draw all the Keeto's now.
Heh, I knew I was up for this. I decided to revamp it despite how many people would be unhappy.
Why?
Because the old one NEEDED a revamp, more then many other pets.

As mentioned-
It did not look like a Keeto
It's anatomy was horrible
The shading was.. really old and flat

If a pet falls under this category, it will be revamped despite how popular it is.

I tried really hard to keep the old angelic Keeto look, but at the same time I have to improve everything. It's not the easiest job in the world you know.

I am sorry for those who loved the old one, but these things need to happen, and they will.
Don't bother telling me not to revamp a certain keeto, because it is up to the creative department. We choose what needs revamping and what doesn't.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Oh, and for the missing leg on the old one... I never noticed it. At least not fully enough to notice it was not there... thought it was hidden behind the other one or something....

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Okay, that's the first time I considered getting a Kanis. It's really... nice. I like it. And it doesn't have that colour pallet on it anymore. XD

About the Keeto... I did like the old one better. Mainly for the expression, which this one seems to be lacking. :/ The old one looked... free and happy. This one just has a small smile. Buuuut, the new one has better anatomy, that's what's mainly good about it along that it looks keetoesque now...

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

i liked the old Keeto better

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

... Waitwait. I'm apparently not quite done!

Quote:

; border: 1px solid ; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10;">Apparently people didn't mind these mistakes that much if they didn't even notice them. And who says the keeto could walk, maybe it could only fly and the legs were there to complete the looks XD
It's an imaginary pet, who cares if it's a bit er ... anatomically incorrect ^^;

Holy crap, really? Then I can let the feli go through, and then draw all my future pets boneless? That's awesome O: No one will have the right to complain c8

... Seriously. Rofl.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

When* And all ther typos I might've made )8

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Alright, I think some people here don't understand that the old keeto did NOT look like a keeto at all.
I don't think we said the old Angelic Keeto was OMG HORRIBULZ, but it wasn't a keeto. it was a... subspecies that was genetically transformed by Ian or some other mad scientist.

I personally think the old keeto was a good piece of art when looked at by itself. Wehn compared to the common keeto it, fails the test head-first, though.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Keshi did do the Keeto. 8|

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Well, I will miss the old one very much, but the fixed new version looks good too in my opinion
I conform

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

I think if there was no black around the pupil/iris of the eye, then it would look more like the original? c:
I was personally a fan of the old one's face and especially eyes~ so just a thought.

Other than that, beautiful <3

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Quote:

; border: 1px solid ; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10;">If you're going to complain about the new Angelic Keeto, please don't use "fix up anatomy/add leg/add better shading to the old one", because that is exactly what's been done.

Well maybe the people who used this expressions didn't count on them changing the keeto so much, the revamp would have been perfect if it had a bigger head and the older ones expression.
Quote:

; border: 1px solid ; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10;">There's also the fact that the hind leg was so large that the old Keeto had no visible midsection - the back and front legs had no space between them. Nothing would be capable of walking like that. The old anatomy was incorrect in a number of ways, not just the missing leg.

Apparently people didn't mind these mistakes that much if they didn't even notice them. And who says the keeto could walk, maybe it could only fly and the legs were there to complete the looks XD
It's an imaginary pet, who cares if it's a bit er ... anatomically incorrect ^^;

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Did Keshi drew that keeto T_T I feel bad... I hope not

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

I'm not the one who's been lacing my comments with snarky tones and childish sarcasm.

No, just because something is over a year old doesn't mean it needs a revamp. New doesn't always equate to improved, and remaking every graphic on the site every year would be a waste of valuable time anyway. What matters is the art's quality, not its age. There's plenty of art on this site that's 2 or 3 years old, or even older, that even the staff has stated they have no intention of revamping soon because it's fine as it is. And still there are plenty of new items, colors, species revamps, etc. popping up every week to keep Subeta "evolving"; one less overhauled pet image wouldn't have brought the entire site to a screeching halt.

Again, my point was that IF the Angelic Keeto absolutely had to be changed (which tons of people obviously felt it didn't), this was not necessarily the change it needed. Look at the retouch the Keeto's common colors had a while back, with only the outlines and some coloring smoothed out and the rest kept the same. Most people didn't even notice the difference without peering close, but in the end most were satisfied - it updated the pet without totally overhauling it. The same sort of thing could've been done with the Angelic: lineart update, minor shading update, adding of a leg, and voila. That would've been more than enough.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

You mean, there was a time when a smart-alec attitude actually made you sound intelligent?

Okay, but onto the real point:
"Those pixels are its livelihood. Some of us speak our opinions not to bash others or get our own way, but because we want those pixels to look the best they can so that Subeta will be represented by the best artwork possible."

So...
According to your previous comments:
If a greater amount of people, as is seen in these comments, want the old art back, it should be given back, with minor tweaks in order to "fix it up".

Yet, you say now that Subeta needs to be represented by the best artwork possible, which many of us agree would not be artwork that is over a year old. (and maybe even over 2 years old, since I'm pretty sure that's the Angelic Keeto that was around when I first joined).

In order to improve its look as a graphics based site, Subeta should be constantly updating its graphics, correct?
And yet, taking into account everything you said, you seem to be saying that you, yourself, support the improvement of this graphics based site by not supporting the improvement of a graphic that is an essential part to this graphics based site, because you feel that the improvement to the graphic was not as well done as the former graphic.
Yet, wouldn't return to a former, older graphic be a step backwards in the evolution of the site?

It also seems as if this is not about the image itself, but the style the image is drawn in. I have no clue as to who the original artist is, but looking at the Angelic Keeto now I can definitely tell that the same person drew it as drew the Reborn and the Commons. It has Keshi's style written all over it, and I think that's what has got people so mixed up. Nothing changed except the style, and you can't expect a person other than the original artist to match the style of an older image, its almost impossible, and even if the original artist were to redraw it, I'm sure there would be a deviation from the original. Just a thought.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

BEAUTIFUL!!!! I MUST HAVE ONE OF EACH! ^^ Kudos to the artist!

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

I think they both look lovely... the Kanis VERY much needed a revamp.
I actually like this Keeto better than the old one... much more realistic (in terms of anatomy), but that's just me...

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

You can lose the smart-alec attitude, Zoshi. It's not making you sound any more intelligent.

You missed my point, again, but just so you know, some of us are concerned not just for what our own profiles look like, but for Subeta itself. Yes, they're pixels, but if you recall, Subeta is a graphics-based site. Those pixels are its livelihood. Some of us speak our opinions not to bash others or get our own way, but because we want those pixels to look the best they can so that Subeta will be represented by the best artwork possible.

Not that staff seems to want people who don't agree with them 100% of the time to care about the site, at least not vocally, but that's beside the point.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

I want the Keeto!

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

i think the keeto is pretty. nice improvement.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

I personally LOVE the revamp on the Keeto, looks so much better now, I really don't see what people are talking about in terms of loosing it's charm or whatever, it's the same pose, same expression really in my opinion, just with updated lineart that makes it LOOK like the current Keeto species.

Not crazy about the Kanis but it is a great improvement from the original reborn one, it's probably the pose that's throwing it off for me XD but overall they both look great.

Excellent work to the artists :>

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Lol, people freaking out about pixels.

Love them by the way.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Okay, look. The Reborn Keeto was revamped a little while ago. I freaked out like a little spaz, just like everyone here is.

And then it hit me. What?

The Fact That This Is Just A Game
and
The Fact That These Are Just Pixels
And - Most Importantly-
The Fact That I Am Able To Design My Pets Any Way I Want, No Matter What The "Official" Art For That Pet Is.

Also, more than a few people (me Included) have the old art of their pet replacing the new art on their Profiles and on their Pet Profiles. Its not that difficult to do.
So there is a very simple solution to everyone's problem, and its the same one I took with the Reborn Keeto and the Graveyard Magnus =
Replace the New Image with the Image you Want, and then you can be a happy little panda once more. Yay! Instant Drama Remover!

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

The angelic keeto is veeeery nice but man that reborn kanis is to die for! I'm in love with him! Kudos to the artists. Neither of these pets were ever on my favorites list but I may just have to go out now and get me a reborn kanis!

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Kabuto, pay attention to what's going on before you start talking. I am BY FAR not the only person who preferred the original. And don't tell me "to get over it." I'm just as entitled to my opinion as you are, and just because you prefer the revamp doesn't mean everyone has to.

And actually Sari, if I were the Angelic Keeto artist, I wouldn't care if people said they didn't want the GY Keeto revamped. It's not like it's already been drawn and released and met with mass opposition; people just think it's fine as it is. I've disagreed with many artists' excuses for revamping things in the past couple years, but revamping a popular pet simply out of spite is just beyond wrong.

Finally, Zoshi: it is NOT the same Keeto. It's in the same POSE. There's a difference. There's more to art than just outlines and anatomy. The new version has different colors, different expression, different texture, different posture, different physique/weight, different attitude, and on and on... and those things are just as important in virtual pet art as the pose, if not more so.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

-is in love with reborn keetos now-

So.. CUTE.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

I don't mind the revamped Keeto... the eyebrows are a tad disconcerting, but otherwise it's decent. Don't really know /why/ the old Keeto needed a change, though...

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Concerning the Keeto: I don't say the art isn't actually better than before; I admit that my judgement of that aspect is (currently) not an objective one. But: I think many of us agree that the expression of the pet changed completely, and that's what bugs most people.
I like what Cara did as modfications down there, but I still think it's in his eyes and smile: it should grin/smirk/something, but not smile sweetly. Also, I do believe it looked very much like a Keeto before. oOx

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Well, they're really pretty but aren't there like, other pets, that are in desperate need of a revamp? X.x I think the angelic keeto looked really good, even if there were some minor anatomy mistakes and so. But these two are very pretty aswell, so I guess it's all good. :3

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

I really like the Angelic Keeto's expression. It's so cute! Great job, artists.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

To everyone who says all the old Keeto needed was fixed up anatomy, added leg, and shading, and that so much didn't have to be changed:

It. Is. The. Same. Keeto.
Only with: fixed up anatomy. Added Leg. Better shading.
It has everything you're all talking about.
The old Keeto's hip bone was connected directly to its shoulder bone. Its head was disproportionately large to its body size, its wings looked like they were painted on behind it and didn't look connected to the body at all.
So, I am sending out a request to you all:
If you're going to complain about the new Angelic Keeto, please don't use "fix up anatomy/add leg/add better shading to the old one", because that is exactly what's been done.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

The thing about the revamps I like is that they have a fresher look. Both have more life in them unlike the older pets before. Good work Keshi and Rah! I just wish I could get more pet slots though. XD

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

It's official. Essence is a Keeto now. She is gonna be angelic.

I put the old and the new Keetos side by side to see how much it changed.

Suzaku is right. The wings didn't look like they belonged in the old one. like it was the ghost of some other angelic pet hiding behind the keeto. The new one fixes that.
Also. I don't see WHY you all complain so much. It's the same pose just with an added leg and cleaned up anatomy. Sure the head is in a different position but it's still nicer. Also, if you miss the old ones sassyness sooooo much, just imagine the new one winking at you. If the old head WAS kept the eyes wouldn't fit into the skull like it dose now.

I find the new one SO much better. I realllllly didn't care much at ALL for the old one. This change is beautiful and Essence will be this beautiful keeto one day.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

My keeto. My cost-me-a-fortune-to-finally-colour keeto. It's chubby with a tiny head, and it's eyes have dulled. And he doesn't seem very cheery anymore either...

On the bright side, no matter what colour I change him to, it can't possibly cost me as much as angelic x-x;

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

Quote:

; border: 1px solid ; font-family: georgia; font-size: 10;">I admit the old keeto needed a 4th leg and perhaps a fresh coloring but the old shape was fantastic, specially the big head.

There's also the fact that the hind leg was so large that the old Keeto had no visible midsection - the back and front legs had no space between them. Nothing would be capable of walking like that. The old anatomy was incorrect in a number of ways, not just the missing leg.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

frankly I liked my reborn kanis way It was, why i got one in the first place

but the new revamp is nice, brighter,richer colors, artist did great job

who am I to complain I cant even draw stick figure

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by

angelembryo- I meant exactly what I typed. Imagine how you would feel if you were the one who revamped that Keeto. If I was the Keeto artist, I'd do a total repose and update of the gy from those comments.

In all honesty, the wings, the tail, the pose, the head, the expression is all the same, just of an improved quality. I actually feel like saving up for an Angelic potion to get the new Keeto, because I like it a lot more than I did. c:

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