Quoting some of the discussion we had before about this. I know there were other points made. Feel free to bring them up again, it was not that I didn't include them because I didn't like them but more for the sake of expediency. But let's keep the discussion in this topic to THIS project. We get sidetracked and lose sight of what we want to figure out.

Before we start on the major project of listing achievement needs - and yes I too have thought this would be a good addition - I wanted to bring up a couple of things.

1. Lifelike dolls and subeautique items - there are a boatload and that's going to be hellish to enter. The dolls, in particular are going to need to be checked - we can't just enter the note because some dolls were made later and I don't know if the later made dolls were added to the achievement or not.
2. Getting blamed by users who spend boatloads of cash on achievements that are either retired or glitched. Example, lets say we have a note on The Ether that its used for an achievement - then they retire the achievement. People will get mad at us if they waste 400 Million sP.
3. Following on 2, do we include notes on retired achievements (I don't know if there are any that have items)? And if so, do we mention the achievement is retired - because if we mention some retired achievements, we're going to have to make sure to keep that up.
4. I've tried writing up a guide to achievements and its a nearly impossible task - between glitches, retired achievements that are still listed as "active" and other screw ups, its a huge pain. Granted what we're talking about isn't exactly a guide, but its close enough that many of the problems with creating a guide would be very similar to this project.

That's what comes to mind immediately, but there may be other considerations I haven't thought of. Personally, I think its still worthwhile, but we should discuss it and make some decisions and rules before we start.[/quote] [quote=]Great questions, .

On the one hand, I don't think we should be held back by concerns about what if Subeta retires an achievement and doesn't tell us. Anything we do on here could be negated by them at some point (y'all did an AMAZING job, by the way, of keeping up with all the spelling changes that just came out).

But it'd be a break from what this site usually tracks to keep tabs on things other than collecting items -- we've never had a checklist for things we've deleted (Ethers, pumpkins), or checklists with counters (feed your pet 100 Black Candy Bars). I'd recommend starting with the active achievements that "look like" checklists -- read these books to your pet, have these items in your wardrobe, etc. Those are in keeping with SubetaLodge's "traditional" mission.

At that point, we can review lessons we learned from entering those achievements and decide whether and how to tackle the other kinds of achievements.

1. I said it before, Silver, Cherry and soon Aqua are not part of the achievements and will never be, Amber confirmed it to me.

2-3. Can't we just add something like "Warning: the achievement might be retired and buying this item is at your own risk and SubetaLodge is not responsible for any loss of sP"

Also, what is retired willnot come back so we don't need to add notes for them

And we don't need to babysit on the achievements at all, the users needs to be responsible to check if the achievements are active or not, we just give them extra help.

Yup, I know you said it before. I was doing it at work and didn't have time to sort the quote for answered/moot questions. Sorry

no need to be sorry!! I'm super tired it's 3am so I'm writing without thinking so it went out in a cold way, so I'm sorry too :)

Anyway, what do you think about my warning suggestion? I think it can protect us from any complain, we show no responsibility for any mistake and we also teach them to check the achievement before they buy the item.

We can make a monthly achievements check and update the items if needed.. and tbh when they retire an important achievement, the forum is flooded with complains lol

personally I don't want to add a warning in the notes, but if we do a news post about adding an achievement note, then we can put in there.

Its a lot of work, but as I see it, pretty simple. Go to the achievement page, find item collection achievements and start adding notes:

Item included in achievement: achievement name.

Do we include what needs to be done? Like: Item included in achievement: achievement name. (Feed/read to a single pet along with the other items) Item included in achievement: achievement name. (Add to wardrobe along with the other items) and so forth.

Do we list the other items needed for the achievement? (Please no!)

said he was working on something along these lines, maybe we could hear more about that?

I'd agree with Lypsyl on only including a note in the initial announcement would/should be fine. I don't think we need to include notes in each item warning that it may be retired.

Also in that note maybe just mention that we're only tracking the achievement name in the items required, not listing every item on every other item's page, so if they want to see what all is required for an achievement, use the Item Notes search option with the achievement name to generate the list.

I also think we should do:

Achievement name: add to wardrobe/feed/read to single pet (along with other items).

Alternately:

One of the items required for Achievement Name, all items for this achievement must be (read/fed to the same single pet) (in your wardrobe) (in your inventory).

Just to clarify, with the food achievements, you don't have to feed all the food to one pet, you can mix it between all your pets and still get the achievements, same with the books..

I have one concern that maybe some items already have too many notes and to add one more can make the page looks messy so I was thinking about something nice.. we can add a symbol to the item page and when they click on it, they get a pop up with the achievement note.. (maybe make it general for the notes?) NVM It can conflict with search by notes..

I am not ignoring this. I like the ideas and the discussion!

I think we need to read the description of the achievement with particular attention because I know some achievements DO state it has to be one pet - as in the following examples.

Brainless Feed the following brain foods to one of your pets!

Undead Tour Guide Read the following books to one of your pets!

Now, I haven't tested it because I always feed and read to the same pet, other pets only ever gets duplicates that I've already fed/read to my main pet, so its possible that even though the instructions say "one pet" it doesn't really mean that?

We should have a phrase that is searchable for ALL items needed for all achievements, so someone could make a custom list based on that, as well as searchable by individual achievements. Based on that, this doesn't work, though its short and simple: "Achievement name: add to wardrobe/feed/read to single pet (along with other items)."

Based on that the note should be in three parts all with the exact same phrasing: Needed for item achievement Name of achievement Food/book/plushie/beanbag/wardrobe/sticker

This way people can make custom lists in a variety of ways (all items, all plushies, all food, specific achievements), or list searches.

let me ask Amber privately about it and I will update you :)

I can verify that on achievements that say specifically that items must be read/fed to one pet that it means exactly that. I've had pets who read half the books/ate half the foods and had another pet who had read/eaten the other half and it absolutely didn't count. I had to pick one to read/feed the missing items to so that all of the items were on one pet.

Also I think maybe this would work: Needed for achievement: achievement name Feed/read/collection/inventory/wardrobe/whatnot requirement instruction

Than it's only 2 lines and they can make a list using the item note "needed for achievement" if they want a custom checklist for achievements?

Yes Amber also confirmed this to me :)

So I was wrong, sorry for the mess "^_^

I wasn't suggesting 3 lines of text. Just that those 3 bits of info should be in there.

"Needed for achievement: achievement name" sounds good, maybe even: Needed for achievement: achievement name. Requirement phrase.

We should also have standard phrases for the requirements. Feed to one pet. Read to one pet. Add to wardrobe. Add to sticker collection. Add to beanbag collection. Add to plushie collection. Have in inventory.

Am I forgetting any?

no problem :) always good to confirm assumptions.

No worries!

Ah okay haha. I misunderstood. I agree, standard phrasing and one line if possible is a good plan.

Donate to Fantine. (Although maybe any event tied and thus retired achieves should be left off entirely). Delete from account (must do one by one). Feed to any pets (pumpkin feeder is cumulative as is the black candy bar thing). Use the "set free" option (or whatever the text says for the free the fairies one).

I can't think of anymore off the top of my head and I'm still at work.

Just a quick question, do we need to add it for all the collection items?

Let's say this item: Fearful Brain Beanbag

Needed for: Emotional Brains, Beanbag Collector and Beanbag Master.

Or we exclude Beanbag Collector and Beanbag Master and the rest of the main collections achievement?

My understanding is that we aren't doing it for generic items, or any of a certain type of items. What we are not covering: 1 - wardrobe layer achievements. So we would not include "Finger Layer" because it can use any finger layer item. But we would do "Shoulda put a ring on it" because it names specific rings. 2 - delete any of a type of item. So we would not include the pumpkin deleting one because you can delete any pumpkin, but we would include the one that deletes the ether - because its a named item. 3 - Donating to Fantine or releasing fairies, again wouldn't be included because you can toss any food to fantine and release any color fairy. I don't think there are any achievements that ask you to give named items. There is a fairy collector or fairy catcher or some such achievement that would be included, but that just requires you to have the items in your inventory, not release or give them away. 4 - Retired achievements. 5 - Any of the master, or generic item achievements. So no Beanbag collector or Beanbag master. Just the Emotional brains.

Basically we're only looking to add notes to named items that appear in achievement checklists (the ones that have the button to display items needed).

I'm in agreement with what just posted. I think that makes a lot of sense to exclude ones that are pretty generic, as you don't need the very specific items necessarily.

Not to mention the fact that there are 28,539 official clothing items and 22,377 CWs that would all need to have the note:

Can be used in achievement: Filled Wardrobe. Add to wardrobe.

A complete nightmare!!!!! It would take years....

I think this is perfect.

What if, for example, with the "Put a Ring on it" achievement, we have an item note that says something along the lines of "Needed for Achievement: Put a Ring on it" and the "Put a Ring on it" portion links to the other items needed for that achievement. Just like we do for Delish lines and costume trunks.

I vote no linking! If they want to know what the other items are they can run a note search themselves - search for "put a ring on it" should bring up all the needed rings.

If we add links, it can mess up searches or custom list creation. For example, if we link the name of the achievement, then search for "Needed for Achievement: Put a Ring on it" will not bring up any results.