When i saw this post had over 300 comments i thought that it was going to be filled with exciting discussions about what could be coming.
Oh boy was I disappointed. From people saying that this stimulates diabetes and obesity to someone saying that you can only approve this is if you are stuffing your face with food behind your computer. I regret reading all this, so many unnecessary mean comments full of prejudices and lacking any form of empathy.
On the subject of the actual post: I love her revamp and I'm really excited to figure out what the fun thing is mentioned in the news post.
Hey, Shinwa's finally got an outfit for her HA. Thank her! I like the revamped art way better than the original, but as posted there could be tweaks to it. It's great but not perfect. Her new forehead needs the most adjustment in my opinion, it's way too high where the hair begins.
There are things I really like about this update -- the greater attention paid to the jewelry and belt, the updated pose. I just really hope some attention is paid to the constructive criticism of the proportions being levied by a few of the commenters here. Her shoulders look small for the rest of her body -- I would love to see a redraw of this without her clothes and hair covering her figure, because I think it would support that something is very off. Even the Human Avatar on the right-hand side looks like it has wider shoulders than the artist rendition. I really enjoyed the Oracle revamp earlier this month, but the wrongness of the proportions here is so distracting that it draws attention away from the rest of the picture. Please consider fixing some of these issues -- I know people are going to complain regardless and there's no pleasing everyone, but the visual artists have the right of it here.
ah ok. yea that is why we as a society should alter our views and see people as individuals. it's also very important to love ourselves. social beauty ideals are always changing. we can choose to not let society dictate our perception of ourselves by being comfortable in our own skins as difficult as that may be. pat pat try not to let those comments get to u too much. :)
The pink marks are the remnants of some curse, right? I never liked the racing-stripe style of pink marks on the original illustration and I like the new more organic pink scars/tattoos. I agree with the comments about her breastline. I can see that Subeta is moving away from Manga/Anime style artwork, but I wasn't prepared for this. I guess Shinwa's visage was rather sacrosanct in my mind and getting use to a less angular face is going to take a little bit of time for me. It doesn't mean I hate it. The level of artwork is fantastic and I appreciate the artists work.
I have to agree with Lime:
I think this could really cut down on a lot of these over the top comments and cruel comments. Yeah, even my own argy comment included. I couldn't possibly imagine being the artist who drew this and now to have all these people ready to go after them over a drawing! What if they're really damn proud of their work? I really hope they are, 'cause no matter what you think about Shinwa's face or arms or neck or boobs or whatever else you can pick and poke at, the artist is amazingly talented and I couldn't in my wildest dreams draw something like this!
At first I thought her revamp was really jarring.. since it's quite different from the Shinwa I'm used to of course. Although I've looked at her for a long time now and I'm actually starting to kind of warm up to the change? Her outfit is better and more detailed/unique than it was which is a plus. However I do agree with others that she looks kind of.. off? It's not a bad revamp, there's just a few tiiiny details that make her new look seem off to me LOL. Kudos to the artist for giving her a more realistic look. I'm really liking these revamps that give the original NPCs more character and originality.
I actually really really like what you did with that. It looks a lot better to me even with those small details changed.
Oh, I agree that people of all races have a wide range of facial features and didn't mean to imply otherwise. But there are features that are more common among certain groups, and those features are often the ones considered unattractive by Western beauty standards. Not all Asian people have the features I mentioned, but many do, and they're more likely to be bullied for it. I'm just saying that it bums me out when people consider traits associated with POC "ugly" or "mistakes."
I'm officially out of words.
her face really bother me. Maybe it's because of the portion? Other then that love the design :D The tattoo! XD
i disagree with your view. asians have a various range of features like all people. there r no set feature for asians, whites, etc. it's all stereotypes and racism. there are many asians (including east asians) that have large eyes and pointy nose without need of plastic surgery and yea they can have natural blonde hair and blue eyes as well.
i'm still hoping they revamp the ravamp face since she looks so much like a little kid.
dayum she got fat hahah
The nose is what bothers me as well. Everything else is fine. The nose is the same as Oracle's. Whyyyyy??? :((( There are so many nose shapes and she would look amazing with a bit pointier nose. Not this potato.
loving her hair and outfit c:
The new small boobs also kind of bother me. Her big ones were fine.
Eyes not centered on her head? People have this thing called long faces. Not a pathology. :O Shocking.
Details not carried through? The old one barely had any details. I mean have you seen it, seriously? Everything from the pose to the feathers to the gold jewelry has been preserved. I'm glad she got MORE details added, because the old Shinwa looked so bland.
Fat? lmao Having a waist the same width as your face doesn't make you fat. Having a fuller face doesn't make you fat all over. Look up Lily Cole please. And those arms can be muscles. They look pretty toned to me.
Art is ok I guess but her head is huge and disproportionate. Her body is tiny compared to what a head that size needs.
I have been reading trough some of these comments and in my opinion her body type is just fine. She's probably meant to be a little chubby just like Greek goddesses (they also often have strong looking arms in the old paintings!). The women don't always need to be model thin. However if I had to give some feedback it would be about her hair overlapping her cheek weirdly. Otherwise she's just perfect! <3
When I first saw this my thought was that I really appreciated that her features, like the Oracle's, weren't particularly white-looking - she looks at least mixed-race, with a facial structure like many Asian people have (wide, flat, less defined nose, smaller eyes, etc.). Anime-looking characters drawn in a more realistic style are often given very white features. With that in mind a lot of these comments about her face are bumming me out. "Face too wide" "potato-like-nose" and "eyes too small/not wide enough" are criticisms real, actual Asian people have to hear. I like her face, although I don't think she has enough top-of-the-head.
Like a lot of people here her proportions bug me - mostly just that her torso is too small for her arms and head. All the details and the rest of the art is lovely though, especially the coloring.
I always thought her face looked quite young and the big boobs were just odd proportions on the art, but that's just me, and I never participated in any of her lore or anything.
What an adorable, young lady! The revamp is just amazing and the artist did a wonderful job! <3
Hire she knows her stuff!
I really love her outfit, the feathers, her hair and the tattoos. Especially the tattoos. The face is offputting however. And no, I don't have criticisms for each part, just THE NOSE. Both the Oracle and Shinwa have noses that look like bees stung them. Round with very little definition. Even if it was because she is a bit rounder herself now, you can have a more curvaceous face and still have a more defined nose.
WOW, this is an NPC revamp i actually like 0-0 =D Well done, artist!
Yes, i liked the previous "manga/anime" style, but that's because i got used to it and because that's the style used since i signed up. ... and i'm not a big fan of changes in general. But Shinwa looks good.. and it's ok for subeta to get some distance from 'manga/anime'.. there's nothing wrong in that.
I don't care much about proportions [ie: eyes placed weirdly, arms too thick... blah blah blah] but i do feel like her torso is a bit short and makes her boobs seem placed in the wrong place.. Im happy she decided to remove her implants though, hahaha: goddesses don't need implants ;)
It's cute to see she has gotten into the ombre-hair trend. thankfully it's very subtle and looks natural.
Someone said to have the revamps discussed before releasing them on-site. I agree with this. and whatever happened to the poll where we would vote for which version we like more? >.>
I like the individual parts of her new art, but put together I get a feeling like it doesn't fit together? I have to agree with Lime and SilveredFox on a lot of their points, but I think I need to add that her torso appears a tad short, small compared to her head and generally off to me. Like her right shoulder looks kind of dislocated and gives me the impression that her neck isn't properly centered. I still like this revamp way better than her old art, nicely done!
Her eyes are MUCH too small for such a plump face, her ear is too high, and imo, her arms look more muscular than they should, but that's just opinion. What really bugs me is that for her right arm to be positioned the way it's drawn, her shoulder would have to be starting somewhere roughly around the boob area. She needs to be tweaked a bit. I want her belt though!
(btw the note about wildly different things was as a note to future revamps) I'm a bit tired and keep thinking of things to add after I hit add comment.
I do very much so love the new shading on her outfit though* (forgot to add that part) that's my favorite aspect so far of this revamp (not sure why I like it so much but I do)
Edit to the comment about the tattoos - Or maybe take them the opposite and make them even BOLDER and brighter - That would bring them into the less 'realistic' side but she's a goddess! She can be as unreal as she wants ^.^
I am sorry if it's odd to think that her arms should be more plump if you are aiming to have plumped her face a bit - Though I know my own body type is similar (lol maybe that's why it bugs me - I'm not terribly fond of my own body image right now) Still it really is a lovely work, with a lot of attention to detail. I think it's really just the shade that's throwing people with the tattoos (again opinion I'm just trying to help with feedback towards her) Not that they aren't nice! It's just... well.... Faint red broken up marks on skin brings unfortunate thoughts to mind you know?
Again I always have loved her design and markings they bring something interesting to her overall. I'm rambling and it's early but I wanted to at least drop a few cents into the critique/compliment bowl. No matter what people will learn to love her after time
My only problem is that she doesn't.... somehow... look like Shinwa. What's wrong with super thick bold tatoos? They're there for a reason they can be unreal looking. Look at some ink people have! This looks like the way they redid the 'irl' version of the Avatar tatoos and we all know how well that particular movie went down with people. there is nothing wrong with leaving solid tatoos as are in my personal opinion.
There's something strange about the way her face is I agree. It's nothing about a body type it's that the face is wierdly... puffy? I think I agree with that word others have been using. I can see that there was a lot of attention to detail given for her and I'm sorry to have to pass along my feelings on this one but it just looks odd.
I DO NOT MIND HUGE REVAMPS. I'll say it. I DO however mind when the details of characters change wildly into new characters.
I'm sorry I thought the point of revamps was to make old things better with brand new art skills. To take and PRESERVE what the old image was but show off what could have been with even better art skills.
There is a time and a place for bringing wildly new and different or even subtly different shifts in character designs - Can't we just get our exact old details of our beloved NPC's without the changes?
I know the artists can do it, that's why I am excited to see it done but don't lose the charm of the original in the translation. I think that one simple step would stop almost 100% of all this outcry at any of these revamps. There will always be some bickering about the new since it's hard to change at all - don't make it even harder and change the very details we all know and recognize about things in the process? At least my 2 cents. Thank you for doing this piece, I hope that some of the issues with the details can be addressed (Again the tatoos being so broken up give more of a rash like impression)
I actually think it wouldn't have been a bad idea but it's the color of her tatoos. When they are solid they look magical and purposeful. Because they ARE red/pink well... that IS the color of rashes sadly. If they were brilliant purple or emerald (no please that is not a suggestion Shinwa wouldn't be Shinwa without her pink tatoos) they'd look more esoteric instead of rash like with the new design.
It's just because it comes off as splottchy when they get looking smaller... erm.... well... I think it's one of those unfortunate correlation issues and I don't think that will change without actually changing them. Nothing wrong with simple(er) details when they look good! We can tell you are trying hard - you don't have to try too hard and overshoot where they could go.
I liked that shinwa looked on the young adult side because it made her look mature, but timeless. Like litterally time could not touch her - which is fitting. She is a goddess.
Btw - I actually like Kuwabara. She looks happy. It's just the combination of the way the details come together that are just not working for me, mixed with what I for years expect shinwa to be looking like, so it is extra jarring.
That actually looks pretty good. now if only her right arm didn't look like it was being screwed on the wrong way (I think this bothers me the most) it just looks weird to me.
Ummmm I wondering ,,do i smell a plot happening Merana!!!
Wow, she now looks like an obese child rather than a plump adult. Im all for making all of the NPCs more realistic in shape, but her face looks so child-like and not so beautiful greek goddess at all :/ Her face looks like she had an allergic reaction to something!
I don't understand these "ruining old characters" idea? Shinwa, the Oracle and even Blake Steele were all bizarre generic anime drawings that didn't make sense.
Refining them by adding different traits is giving substance to something that didn't have any before.
I think this might be most of what is offputting Okay so, for this particular face type/arm size, her body would have to be thicker. Check. Her eyes aren't in the center of her head (up/down). Check. Her left (right) eye is at the wrong angle. Check. Her ear is in the wrong place. Check. Her eyes are too far apart. Check. Other than that, I think that her cheek on the left (right) shouldn't overlap her hair when it's so far in front of her face. Now can we please have revamps discussed in an art forum or something before being submitted? Thanks.
Oooooh, foreshadowing! I can't wait! ♥
Also, love the revamp! You can really see even goddesses aren't immune to the effects of comfy pink sofas and boredom. I feel ya, sister!
I really love the revamp apart from the pink markings. I'd always hoped they'd be scrapped one day and now they look kind of like a rash. :/ I'm still happy though. c:
YES! You've managed to find all the pieces to my bracelet! To thank you for this, I am giving you one of my very special items!
Shinwas Backpack
I guess I deserve that for calling her a fat cow.
Oh, she looks like a child now and not like a goddess anymore.
Hm. She looks like a little girl. And something about that right arm seems off.
And I mean the tattoos on the face, sorry. ^^; The ones on the arms look just fine to me.
Well, I have to say that this was unexpected.
Just so you know, I do love the new revamp. However, like so many of the people here, I do have a slight issue with the face. It does look a bit too rounded with the cheeks a bit more plump than they should be. The nose and mouth along with the eyes to me look weird. If she's supposed to be a more playful goddess (as a lot of people are saying), why aren't her eyes a bit wider with a few more shines to show that? And the nose just looks odd to me. The Tattoos also look a bit weird because all that detail in them is kinda distracting. Simplify things up a bit (but not as much as the old art), and it'll look better.
Also, try to move the feather down or move the hair a bit so we can see the neck so it doesn't look so weirdly proportioned.
That's just my critique, but other than that, awesome revamp of Shinwa!
While doing her quests I had to block the image. Its her Fat head that is bothering me & if its not her Fat head its her fat neck.
And to the people crying STOP FAT SHAMING -- she's an npc that was like a size 4 with a DD cup before. And suddenly she's COMPLETELY different. You want to release an npc that starts off as a bigger girl, be my guest. But you don't have to change NPCs that already exist to a different body type just because you want her to be more diverse. At least try to keep it close to the original idea of the thing. That being said, her face is much wider than what would be normal with that particular waist and hip size. With the body proportions she has, she would probably not have arms so wide or a face nearly as heavy. If you want our npcs to be "more realistic" then at least take into account that this doesn't count as more realistic, it counts as disproportioned by the artist.
I applaud subeta for bringing awareness to childhood obesity and adolescent Type 2 diabetes!
The hair is nice, but the face looks a bit odd. Not really like naturally big cheeks and more like she got stung by a bee. Everything else looks a tad out of proportion, too.
Also, I'm all for diversity and what not, but couldn't we do that by creating new NPCs rather than changing old ones? It feels a bit forced otherwise. =/ Plus, some women really are just thin with big breasts. You could've kept Shinwa like that while making the art more natural looking.
But what's done is done. /shrug I just really don't want Subeta trying too hard to be "progressive"; it's way better when it's more natural feeling, like the introduction of Kuwabara recently, or the Vesnali bit with Esther. :)
So which artist is to blame for making all of our NPCs fat-faced -.- the drawing itself is just gorgeous but yet again, the face on an npc looks like she weighs 3x of what her body looks like
Come on. Now she looks like a real Greek Goddess, and we ALL know Greek Goddess weren't skinny at all. And, I actually am skinny, and old Shinwa wasn't. She used to have huge tits. Come on. That was sick.
I love her. Really. And no, not all revamps are plump - just remember one of the new girls from saherimos.
For the most part, I'd be agreeing with you on that comment. Yeah, her elbows are at about her wait/just at her hips, which is not inaccurate. That would make her torso extremely short instead though, and for such a tiny body she has a rather large head. Even if you don't agree with me on the specifics though, I'm fine as long as we agree that it could still use a little work. And mind you, I am not saying that I hate the new art itself, I am just not a fan of this presentation of Shinwa as a character.
Legitimately thought this was a joke post at first glance.
Subeta's large and thriving SJW userbase seems to be gobbling this shit up, though, so keep the intentionally unattractive NPC revamps coming. They're the ones giving money to the site so I can keep playing for free.
Adorable!
I came back to say anyone commenting harshly or not even being courteous to make detailed critique... a person drew this art, you realize, yeah? This isn't the only thing they have ever drawn or required to draw for this site, yes? It is absolutely horrid to see so many people making harsh and thoughtless comments on this revamp without taking any of that into consideration. Art does not just suddenly appear out of nowhere. It has an artist and it has someone who has feelings. Not to say to baby them, I think it's important to have an opinion, but throwing out unnecessary harsh words and starting heated fights over this is way over the top and disrespectful.