That's true, Psycho lost its mojo, especially with what you have to go through to get it (aka, survive General Squirrel-Butt).

Thank you both for the updated freeze data on those scrolls - I wondered too because I thought my fights were wonkier with freezing. I have updated SL and apologize for the delay in doing so - some things outside my control cropped up and I have basically not been anywhere near my computer really for a hot minute.

Okay, let's go through the timeline, shall we... 12/14 - Scrolls get a revamp. All that is mentioned about our freezing scrolls:

1/9 - We call out the absolute nerf of the freeze chance, in addition to the nerf to freeze protection. And how garbage it is when you consider the opponents are all still the same.

In the post, it's identified that Shriek lost 10% (85 to 75%), Smasher lost 10% (75 to 65%), and Cold Blast remained at 65%.

1/11 - Without any acknowledgment to the previous posts, Cold Blast has now been lowered to 50% freeze chance. (And maybe Smasher got boosted to 70%).

Are you actually fucking serious? We get you hate freezing, but to be so incredibly shady about all of this is absolutely ridiculous and frankly insulting. Needing to grind out 300, 400, 500 battles to verify is ludicrous.

Just out of curiosity - where does it say Cold Blast has been dropped to 50% chance? I only see the confirmation of it at 65%. Same for Smasher - I think it's at 65% still as well from what I saw on posts.

Jess did another 500 rounds with Cold Blast shortly before the BC went down earlier. And 300 with Smasher.

That is super disappointing. I've updated SL with that info.

This whole experience has been super disheartening, quite frankly.

And we have to be afraid to comment on things because then more spite-driven changes come in afterthefact.

Yeah - I've had a hard enough time even just getting to where I can try for some of the really rough opponents and now every tiny benefit I had from my weapons and scrolls seems like it's just gone away.

Tell me about it. I have a capped pet and (most) of the best weapons that sP can buy, and I still can't beat some of the hardest opponents. Para Saggi? 7 wins, and that was a miracle. I tried again post revamp, and I couldn't even get close.

We're the ones that have to live with these changes.

I'm still working on some of the ones to get me better weapons (Meatslab - I finally hit 1 win but can't get close to a 2nd - nevermind a lot of the others). It's frustrating and the changes to the weapons and scrolls mean more weapon and scroll switches and more confusion and it just...makes it even less inviting or fun.

So we ended up talking things out on Discord and I think we all understand each other a little better now.

Anyway… The Cold Blast thing was definitely my bad. I did get 50% against a weaker opponent, but there was no record of it scaling and I did not know. Psycho Smasher we did test and got 68-71% over 700 turns. It was still inaccurate, which goes to show the limits of user testing.

Final verdict on the scrolls: Strong Stomp - 85% Shriek of Despair - 75% Psycho Smasher - 75% The Void - 70% Cold Blast - 50-80% (will test scaling once the BC reopens)

Why are important things rather discussed off site - esp. on something called "Discord", which for the name's sake I wouldn't look at to begin with, rofl.

Thank you for all your esp. time consuming and tedious work!

Do any freeze rate assumptions exist for Gelaspell and Perilous Whirlpool? (I never knew, The Void had a freeze chance 🙈)

I did notice that I was getting frozen more with my best pet, and almost even losing to being chain frozen because my mods weren't going off. Just because someone doesn't report it, doesn't mean we don't notice. Keep in mind also the whole mod crystal glitch that's been going on, we're thinking our mods are broken from that. So..... shrug

I dunno, the whole point of this changelog was to be transparent about everything. That's all we ask for.

I don't think everything has been sorted out or that we are all being understood, but I appreciate the actual numbers for the freeze rates being posted. Thank you for that.

I politely disagree with this conclusion for a number of reasons:

1. A week is a short amount of time for something to go unnoticed when users are not battling on subeta 24/7. You don't live on subeta during your free time, neither do the players.

2. Not every opponent we are testing has a high freeze rate for us to test freeze protection. Not everyone who is testing is choosing to test on a high freeze rate opponent. If you are looking to test defense on weapons and defensive mods, then a high freeze/high steal opponent is the last opponent you would want to test with so that you can get enough turns in a battle where you are actually able to fight.

3. Despite the common misconception, not all players mod all of their weapons with parched or bona. Not all opponents need freeze protection and if we are still testing the the use of the hundreds of weapons, scrolls and mods that have been changed, mods that weren't mentioned wouldn't be prioritized.

4. Not everyone that battles knows this changelog exists or likes to post on the forums. I have seen a number of people asking outside of subeta if the rates of freezing have changed, if mods have changed, or can't explain why they are getting frozen more often. You may see a few people posting all the time on the changelog, but they are also asking or speaking on behalf of others who do not wish to post on the battle forums.

5. Is the whole point of this changelog not a test? You list all the updates and we very tediously and sometimes painstakingly try to test the changes to see if they work. Not all of us can test on all the opponents or all the super annoying opponents because we either have already farmed them to as high as we can go and are waiting for a reset or don't have a strong enough pet. To make a change and not say anything on purpose to see if anyone would notice comes off not only as shady, but loses the trust and respect of the people trying to help you. I understand not all the comments here have been constructive or polite, but there have also been a lot of good suggestions and ideas to show you what the majority of people are thinking to make battling better on subeta.

Some suggestions to fix the freezing mechanic that have been mentioned:

1. Increase the freeze/steal protection on parched/bona to 25% so that you only need 1 on a weapon instead of 2-3
2. Nerf all the freeze/steal happy opponents. Either nerf the freeze/steal rate on the weapons/scrolls, turn the weapons or scrolls into OPB so they can't spam the weapons for the length of the battle.
3. Remove the mods completely and have a blessing for all of the weapons that protects from freeze/steal. This will free up all mod slots, but the blessings should be balanced in activation rate and active turns with the high freeze/steal opponents in mind.

*I would also take a look at the opponents that have a high chance to freeze, but they have 100% freeze protection. Either their protection can change to partial freeze/steal protection or remove it completely. We can provide a list of opponents for you to take a look at to start if you need help.

okay so here's that idea I mentioned weeks ago, forgot about doing, and then of course decided to work on it now when the BC is down. Feel free to ignore it, since it kinda goes out of left field in this current discussion but hey, maybe there's some merit to it!

in the meantime, I'm with Wesker. Just because I'm on a lot, doesn't mean I'm battling every minute. I also have a tendency to click mindlessly, and only start to notice things after a while. Also I think the week the changes were made I was offline more playing Pokemon, so I'm not gonna be on long enough to notice a change took place, especially one that was done sneakily. But the little I did battle with Elfric, I did notice my blessings weren't going off as much as they should. But I also thought maybe it was the dumb broken mod glitch happening to me now.

I would bump the parched/BONA, or like I suggested, make EoRs of them with the obvious caveat being only certain opponents can drop those, which makes them rare and expensive as heck. And then obviously being EoRs, the blessing rate is what it was before the nerf, but maybe also restrict it to one or the other can be put on, which leaves us to fill in the rest of the mods.

[I]"Hahaha, you suckers. I said I'd be honest about all the changes happening and post them in this thread. And you dummies trusted me! You dutifully looked at every weapon I edited and voiced feedback. And because you were too busy with the holidays, testing known changes, and real life, you didn't bother to look for the stuff I sneaky changed. It's YOUR fault!"[/I]

... "Secret changes" are not good software development practices. It's dangerous to the users and disrespectful to the testers and product owners. It invites additional bugs to slip by, and gaslights the people who DO notice but trust nothing has changed in a system.

I noticed a lack of blessing activation and I noticed a decrease in activation of my freezing scrolls, but I hesitated to mention it since I thought seasoned battlers would have noticed any changes that weren't communicated to us. I second-guess myself a lot as well and need to work on that.

I agree that transparency is key to making this process as smooth as possible.

I got ~13% for Gelaspell and ~33% for Perilous Whirlpool when testing the other day.