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Aug 8, 2017 8 years ago
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BoaConstrictor
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SapphireSeasGoddess

Quote by Maskros
...Before, I need just one click to select a potion and another for a scroll. Now to do the same I&;ll have to do two clicks for each dropdown list. If on paper the pre-selected weapons feature is supposed to make battling faster and reduces clicking, this one defeats the purpose. I wouldn&;t like the alternative offered of assigning colour codes for different scrolls or potions, since I go by visuals not texts. Assigning colour codes still treats scrolls and potions as texts, and the process of selecting them still takes two clicks no matter.</p>
<p>The new layout also assumes that battling is done on a full-screen window. I always battle with half-screen windows and look at guides, or take notes for myself on another separate windows for a new opponent. The new layout makes this more difficult for me to process information as I test weapons or note down an opponent&;s icons or gimmicks.</p>
<p>I also don&;t find it necessary to repeat the image of selected weapons below the weapon box. I&;d rather use that space for visual representation of potions and scrolls instead.
Everything I needed a novel for in a few precise words ;-)
Quote by Maskros
The old layout allowed me to select a weapon, hit enter, then I was done with most battles 1 through 20. I finished L21 to 30 in a similar fashion: clicking three times for weapons and a scroll with a mouse (or for Lv21-25, no scrolls at all), then Enter. With the new layout, BQ-ing takes longer for me, since I can&;t use the Enter key anymore, and it inconveniences me a lot.
Ha! You too! :-)

Quote by Maskros
Alright, now that I have tested out a battle against a weakling, this is what I noticed:
If I don&;t want to go by the pre-selected weapons in my default set, let&;s say Weapon A + Weapon B, but want to use Bomb + Weapon A instead:</p>
<ul>
<li>Clicking on the Bomb will automatically deselect weapon A, while keeping Weapon B</li>
<li>Clicking on Weapon A with the thought that it will confirm my choice, will also deselect this weapon instead
So there is room for error here where I can click on the Bomb assuming it will replace Weapon B, and I will speedily make a turn thinking I&;m doing it with my desired combo because Weapon A is already pre-selected, only to end up with Bomb + Weapon B instead. Against some opponents this can be good or costly.
Righty!

Quote by CastlesInTheSky

I hate dropdowns more that I hate scrolling. At least with scrolling, its like Boom youre there.</p>
<p>&quot; Scrolling has been added to the commentary. Now you can see what weapons do and the lovely attack text without having to scroll all over the place!&quot;</p>
<p>I guess Ill never see the total of damage I do anymore. I would at least notice it when I had to scroll down to repick weapons &amp; scrolls.
Truth, I cba to scroll down a separate section just to see that.
How was it scrolling all over the place? You scroll down, its there. IDK. Now you have to actually move your mouse (whatever you use) over &amp; then scroll.</p>
<p>... Right now, I do see it taking me longer. Only because of the dropdowns.
Im lazy, but Im not that lazy to scroll down, do 1-4 clicks, boom on to the next one. Which is how it was before.
Righty!!!

Aug 8, 2017 8 years ago
far
is a gold digger
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Fartsie

So we basically switched from scrolling a bunch of squares and selecting/deselecting to ... scrolling lists and the same selecting option? Okay whatever I guess. It will take time to get used to it for sure.

[font=arial]But you don't belong to the shadows[/font]

Aug 8, 2017 8 years ago
Cassandra
made a huge mistake
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Kemintari

I truly respect your opinion in all things battle. I have way less experience than you and until the Panzer Hydra (which you personally helped me enormously) I really had no idea what I was doing battle wise. Really what I was trying to get across is that if aren't choosing battle as your main (or one of) Subeta focus then why get upset about changes? This site has so many areas that you can excel in if you chose.

Why is it wrong for people just to do the only the battles their pet can handle? For a long time Kem couldn't get past lvl 5 but I persisted and now he does better.

The events that include battling maybe not fair to those who don't have battle pets, however there are other events with equally difficult components. Restocking, time, puzzle ability, sp amount etc.








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Aug 8, 2017 8 years ago
Visforviolet
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Hmm, it's more convenient for me for now. It looks like it will take a while to get used to, but I really appreciate the hard work that went into this! It does look really nice.

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Aug 8, 2017 8 years ago
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BoaConstrictor
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SapphireSeasGoddess

Quote by Cassandra
..If you are serious about battling there are a lot of other was to train your pet other than exp points. Invest some sp in boosters, do Quentins quests everyday for amulets, do Shinwas quest everyday etc. Plus you could invest in better weapons.</p>
<p>Also personally I have never used scrolls or potions. Don&;t see the point really...</p>
<p>...It would be nice if when you click a second weapon that it negated weapon B rather than A but that is a really minor thing.

Wow, for not using scrolls! You must have the strongest pets on site, still I wouldn't know, how you'd survive really challenging opponents without. Also reading books is kind of my only collectomania ;-) and actually, if I wasn't such an overly careful person, I'd much rather already have read more books to my mains than I still have waiting in my Warehouse :-)

I do said other boosting variations on a truly daily basis, still I would never refrain from the "new" fabulous method of earning XP. While I mostly just train and boost my mains anymore, my secondary ones wouldn't be anywhere close to T12 or late 11 without BQs! Also helped the newest ones in growing a bit faster. They are an absolute daily must for every serious battler!

Aug 8, 2017 8 years ago
frederick
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Yeah, no. It seems this is designed to facilitate auto-pilot play. That it was implemented tells me that this is the right way to play. Because I'm not that kind of player I don't even want to battle with this interface. Everything looks cramped.

Also, if this design is in response to clicking and scrolling being a burden on the player, why was the see results button removed from the top?

Aug 8, 2017 8 years ago
Maskros
has a sweet tooth
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Quote by Cassandra
I truly respect your opinion in all things battle. I have way less experience than you and until the Panzer Hydra (which you personally helped me enormously) I really had no idea what I was doing battle wise. Really what I was trying to get across is that if aren&;t choosing battle as your main (or one of) Subeta focus then why get upset about changes? This site has so many areas that you can excel in if you chose.</p>
<p>Why is it wrong for people just to do the only the battles their pet can handle? For a long time Kem couldn&;t get past lvl 5 but I persisted and now he does better.</p>
<p>The events that include battling maybe not fair to those who don&;t have battle pets, however there are other events with equally difficult components. Restocking, time, puzzle ability, sp amount etc.

I appreciate the time you take to reply to my comment, and I also respect you as a battler. I don't think battle experience here sets any of us above and beyond the other. There are always things that I can learn from your perspectives, and you from mine.

That said, let us return to our discussion. I'm not sure if your question is directed to me, whether one should be upset about changes and there are many other areas where one could excel. Pardon me if I understand you wrong, and I will gladly correct myself if that is the case. I can't speak for other people, but for me, restocking has lost its charm, and I really have a bad eye for fashion both on and offline, I can draw and code basic profiles but that's just not where my preference lies. I guess it's similar to others: they can excel in certain things, like you said, if they want to, but eventually it all boils down to our engagement, investment, and interest. I do think many people here who are not exactly happy with the changes are pretty invested in battling. I have personally spent only two years battling seriously, but have built for myself strategies and battling style that I can foresee would work less efficiently in the current layout because I had a way to make the old one work and it has been working wonderfully. Maybe I'm just very slow to adapt to changes, but I do believe that there is a unique way that our body (and brain) works that would make certain equipments or vehicles more personally appealing and efficient to us, if that makes sense.

As for your second question, there's nothing wrong with pets just beating opponents at their level, or easier than their levels. There is, although no obligation, also nothing wrong with pushing the limits either. I don't force people to push their limits, but if I look at their stats and sets, and most importantly their stats (because I can lend out weapons, as many other battlers would be willing to do) and realise that they stand a chance at earning some loot they really, really want, I would encourage them to go for it. It is of course eventually their choice to take my advice or drop it. Yet it doesn't subtract anything from my personal view that battling should be made user-friendly and visually appealing for those who care to seek it out (especially when a major renovation is still much needed, but not the focus atm). The battle UI becomes the place where that process of engaging and understanding battling happens (actually more than referring to guides!), and being visually able to see potions and scrolls helps a lot in offering a smooth battling experience, as well as assists newer battlers to seek and buy those supplies quickly as well.

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Aug 8, 2017 8 years ago Official
Bug
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Segfault

Quote by Bug
Will respond more tomorrow, as I am quite exhausted right now.

Hey everyone, I know told you yesterday about the compromises we were going to implement (like the background color on the scroll selections) but after reading through it sounds like more discussion is needed as a lot of people are saying that wouldn't help. So I'm holding off on making those changes for now. He will be here later to read and respond to everything, and hopefully figure out where to take it from here :)

As the battle admin, will be the main one discussing things and making decisions from here on out. He'll be talking with me to figure out what's possible to do with coding and so I can implement suggestions once we get a better consensus of where we want to go with this.

When suggesting improvements, please keep in mind that we're a bit limited with what we can do on the current layout with the current battle code. The code that handles battle logic is extremely intermeshed with the code that generates the interface, and we also don't have any way to respond to mobile views.

Eventually I would like to make battling its own full-page app (like the wardrobe) so that there is more screen space to work with, as well as mobile responsiveness. But that requires a much deeper rework of the code that handles battle logic itself, so it's something that will happen over time.

Quote by Maskros
I&;d really appreciate it if we can have a way of communicating with staff... where changes are announced before they are made so that other users can provide their suggestions while there is still opportunity to do so. I understand that as staff members you guys will have the final say, but I&;d appreciate the chance to give some input no matter what.

We wanted to push out the initial change first because we want to make a very significant change to the battle UI, and that wasn't up for debate. The old interface had to go. From here on out, the process will be closer to what you describe. The UI changes in this update are just an initial draft - far from final. There will be discussion going on in this thread to decide where to take it from here. But the old UI is not coming back, we wanted to divorce from it completely.

It's okay if you disagree with how we made this change. We did talk about announcing the changes beforehand, and we had our reasons we decided against doing so in this case. One big reason was that we really wanted to get this project moving. If we discussed everything with users first, I think it would have resulted in a lot of suggestions building off of the old UI, whereas we really wanted to wipe it and start with a different idea entirely. In the end, we'd still have to make changes that upset some people.

We did base the things in this update off of concerns and suggestions mentioned in the suggestions and ideas forums.

I completely understand feeling strongly about it, and it's okay to feel negative about the changes too. You've brought up some great, useful points to consider and I appreciate that. And I definitely appreciate how respectful you've been while bringing them up :) I haven't taken offense to things you've said at all. I only feel hurt when people are rude or make me feel like I'm being yelled at, which hasn't happened too much in this thread I'm happy to say. I just want everyone to understand that we are listening (there's just a lot of different people and opinions to consider) and that all of this, we're doing it for you.

Quote by Marlboro
<em>does it mean that soon the big change that was talked about 1-2 years ago (with more loot and tier changes and stuff) is coming?</em>

Yes. In due time, and it's clear there is a LOT of work to be done before it will be ready, but I'm eager to give battling the attention it deserves. has shown me some of those plans that you are referring to and we're excited about bringing battle to the point where we can make them happen.

Thank you everyone for the patience and the feedback so far! :)

🐝 ☕ bug (he/him) | your friendly neighborhood code wrangler. stay in the loop! join and check out the latest admin post highlights

Aug 8, 2017 8 years ago
Cassandra
made a huge mistake
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Kemintari

What really challenging opponents? The ones my pet isn't ready for you mean? I just train, buy/use stat boosters and try again later. And I spend money on weapons.








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Aug 8, 2017 8 years ago Official
Bug
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Segfault

Quote by Maskros
The battle UI becomes the place where that process of engaging and understanding battling happens (actually more than referring to guides!), and being visually able to see potions and scrolls helps a lot in offering a smooth battling experience, as well as assists newer battlers to seek our and buy those supplies quickly as well.

Just quoting this too because I love it. This is a really good way to think about the battle UI. I think, during our redesign, we focused too much on the idea that most of battling is very grind-y (like doing BQs and throwback challengers and so on) and ended up sacrificing a lot of the more engaging aspects of the UI while trying to make it less tedious to grind. I welcome suggestions on how to bring that back while still making the daily BQ grind (and other grinds, like... jelly war, anyone?) less painful to go through.

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Aug 8, 2017 8 years ago
Maskros
has a sweet tooth
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Quote by BoaConstrictor

Ha! You too! :-)

Yes, me too :) It even helps that the pet image on the weapon selection page is placed right above the weapon row on the next fight page. So I formed sort of a rhythmic triangular movement of the pointer/cursor with my mouse and ended it with the Enter key using the other hand. Maximum efficiency for me. BQs actually fly by in usually under 15 minutes if I really pay attention and don't get distracted by whatever is happening on the other window that takes up the other half of my screen :P.

I'd love to see that retained in every new versions of the fight page. Somehow with the End Battle button located toward the bottom of the page I actually have to scroll down for it because my laptop screen is small and it will push the button out of my normal clicking range.

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Aug 8, 2017 8 years ago
bonita
has a bad feeling about this
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Killer Threat

HUGS

Just loving you! ❤

I've never seen a new admin make such a big splash! I mean that in the best sense. Tackling the wardrobe, battling, and everything else... Do you sleep? (Seriously, do you?)

Wishing you all the best and so grateful my areas of interest are getting the attention they deserve. Many thanks for opening the lines of communication. (And if someone does seem a bit rude, they probably are just deeply passionate and don't mean to be offensive.) I'm looking forward to some hot debates! :)

I live in MN, and whatever you've heard... It's much worse.

Aug 8, 2017 8 years ago
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BoaConstrictor
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SapphireSeasGoddess

Quite honestly, and I do my BQs daily, I found the old layout perfectly fine - esp. with using the Enter key ;-) -. I don't understand, what was wrong about it. Scrolling down to the scrolls while seeing all effects of the previous move on the go? As most everybody pointed out, besides of not being able to visualize anymore, the drop downs are even more time consuming.

What does not make any sense for me is, why we have to go from the battle result to the BQ prize and then to the next stage challenger.

And I agree with what others have spoken out already: Amazing, how busy you are in such a lot of areas! Always gives me a bad conscience, if I am not happy with well meant changes :-(

Aug 8, 2017 8 years ago
Thomas
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Algebra

I do really appreciate the speed but feel the system is lacking some... responsiveness. We're doing an action, there's a result, but we don't really feel it. I definitely don't support putting artificial barriers in - like making us manually select weapons every time, again - but it definitely needs to feel more tangible.

I can't really offer a solution but it's something that did bother me.

Aug 8, 2017 8 years ago
Bug
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Segfault

You are right, and I should try to remember that more. I don't condone rudeness, but I can't blame anyone for being passionate about things they care about - and, in my view, it's a great thing if we have users who care so much about the game :)

Do I sleep? Maybe I shall leave that a mystery...

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Aug 8, 2017 8 years ago
Visforviolet
is a SUPER USER!!!
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Ok, now I'm intrigued for the future changes. c:

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Aug 8, 2017 8 years ago
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BoaConstrictor
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SapphireSeasGoddess

I love your signature!

I still think this was the most stupid and illogical currency to be implemented. :-) But maybe there is just something hidden that I'm too dumb to understand.

Aug 8, 2017 8 years ago
METROID
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Havoc

WHOA I love this. It severely needed a facelift. It's so clean and easy to adapt to! THANK YOU!

[edit] For me personally, I've always hated scrolling the page down during battle. Sometimes I'll have a random skip when scrolling and I select the wrong thing, or I end up accidentally selecting 3 weapons instead of two. I understand some of ya's don't like the change, but let's be real, the old UI was pretty dated.

I've personally been wanting a streamlined, more compact and clean UI for battling for some time now, and this is a very nicely done version. I know it'll still probably be edited a bit more, but it's an improvement. Especially for BQs; this new UI will now help me speed through BQs a bit faster now that I don't have to scroll, or even read the battle description unless I want to take a brief look at damage output if I got a critical or not.

The only thing I can suggest is to allow the old UI to be toggled for those who want it, while making the new UI the default look. But I prefer the idea of phasing out the old and welcoming the new. Especially if it makes everything run faster.

[edit] (again) What if the streamlined version was only for BQs and when we have grindy events like the Gelatin war, while the old UI for everything else (with some much needed updates though, cause I love the new way to select weapons and the battle description textbox needs to have a scroll instead)? Then we can have the best of both worlds.

[flower=Metroid]

Wanna know more about battling? ❤️ The Official Battle Guide v3.3 ❤️ Need to find books? 🌈 The Book Grind Guide v1.0 🌈

Aug 8, 2017 8 years ago
frederick
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After finishing my BQs, I really find the new UI cramped and frustrating to use. The size of the life bars is shrunk to accommodate the smaller space given to your pet and the challenger, but I find it makes it really difficult for me to gauge HP percentages. That the UI bounces with every turn due to the 'loading' animation on the top of the screen is really aggravating.

I genuinely appreciate your hard work, , and I understand that most people think this is the bee's knees, but I find it to be an overall unpleasant experience. So much so I just don't want to battle or train despite really wanting to hit T12.

Aug 8, 2017 8 years ago
bonita
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Killer Threat

LOL Thanks! :)

I don't think you're dumb.

If you're referring to bc tokens, then I can see how there is a logic to folding them into regular quests, with quest tokens given instead. But it does seem like that wold be unfair to non and newbie battlers... Then again, regular quests favor GA holders over other users. I dk what I would suggest be done differently. I actually like the current system. What would you suggest be done differently and how?

I live in MN, and whatever you've heard... It's much worse.

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