Where is this second plate you speak of? I seem to keep misplacing mine... OBC is what I use, and it did give me trouble to begin with, I had to go look up some stuff to make it work right and now it does. Stupid recording software anyways. I thought there was a way to record your computer w/out software, but I'm probably dreaming it up. lol. You'd think if they could do screen capture, that recording would be easy enough? lol! I know I know, not easy at all. xD;

GL figuring it all out!

As far as you two also discussing that artists should put out tuts to show how they work, while it is a nice idea, I know some artist personally that don't do tuts for the very reason of not liking people to 'steal' their style. Which I think is silly really, because the whole point is honestly to help ppl learn new techniques as they figure out their own style. No one can 'steal' a style, only emulate and in the end, everyone will know the difference between the original and a 'knockoff' lol. But some artists simply won't do it, no matter how much other artists wish to learn their tricks of the trade. xD;

Oh no! I don't mean everyone needs to do tutorials! I'm fine with people who don't want to, or don't have the time, or maybe just don't have the words! My comment there was more along the lines of "I know we have a couple tutorials specific on this subject, but more won't hurt!" Because I know Muerte did a tutorial on textured hair recently, and Bean did one when custom wearables first came out, and now I'm also doing one too. Each of us have such distinct and very vastly different styles and techniques that I just feel it would help more than hurt for another one to come out! Hopefully that makes more sense and I'm really sorry if I came off as like "How dare not everyone make tutorials" or "Everyone has to make one!" I absolutely didn't mean that at all :X

Oh sure NOW you tell me !

Update: OBS doesn't work on my computer, it's too old. The other one I thought of getting wouldn't download. Supposedly VLC player will record screens, but it just keeps crashing :( I WILL FIGURE THIS OUT. Just because I think it might be easier to talk people through things. I'm always telling people to look up video tutorials of things, AHAHA

Just wanted to make a PSA since I'm pretty peeved that it seems like a lot of people just aren't aware of the whole process (myself included before I began releasing things several months ago).

Please let me know if I should add anything in the document (comments are allowed in the doc) and keep in mind that I want this to be as factual as possible and not objective in any way in order to eliminate arguments and whatnot. Feel free to ping me~

{smallfry hoping to help people understand the sitch}

I'm not sure where would be the "best" place to post this/reach the majority of the community whom seems to think we're all swindlers. :c

👏

I love it. It's clear and concise - those who want to learn more about the process can. Those who just want to stay angry - well... there's not much we can do there anyway.

I was hoping to have a small giveaway in a week or so that is dedicated to open forum discussion - I would love to include the doc with your permission :) Also anyone else who would be interested in just stopping by to show support would be very much appreciated (or whatever else help you may want to contribute!!) <3

would you mind pinging me again once you do your give away thread?

I am currently totally stressed in RL so I might not catch that one XXD

Thank you

Sure thing~ <3 Hope you feel less stressed soon!! -sends cookies-

OH no, I didn't think that. I thought it was more along the lines of 'it'd be good if we got tuts from all the cw artists' not like an ultimatum, so no worries. ^^

Def lame. My first stuff I used was podcaster, which is also free. It will save the file to your account, but it was extremely annoying to use to get a hold of the files and edit and whatnot. xD But there's that too- it's part of livestream.com =)

My favorite part is the broken down info at the end where you price out exactly how much we're not making because people are not getting that and it's driving me up a wall.

Like "you may not always make massive profits" AHAHAHAHAHA no. I make no profits. Negative profits. The opposite of profits, also called deficits. Sometimes I "make" enough to mitigate part of the deficit. But I do not know what profit looks like. Hell, even selling my collection off isn't a profit because I spent this in the first place.

That's a very nice document. It explains some stuff which I really like. However, people are angry about a lot of stuff and we, as releasers and artists are targeted.

I've scrolled through the forum/comments and I've gathered the following: o1. People are asking Staff to rip-off current designs onsite to make them CS/restockable o2. Permanently block privates unless it's to the artist and releaser only (they say it created elitism) o3. Lower the cost of slots o4. Make general rules applied to everyone - releasers can't have their own rules (about blacklisting ...?) o5. Make all releases public and permanently unlimited o6. R200 forum is too cluttered + unclear o7. "No one would pay $7 for an item only" o8. Limit artists releases and their fees o9. Make public threads concerning each and every thing regarding CW and feedback 10. Limit recolours

That's what I've gathered so far. To me, it looks like a lot of users are unaware of what can and can't be done. These suggestions tend to be unfair even if I get their point. As I've said countless time; if direct-to-shop cost would be lowered, I'd offer my items in bigger batches/unlimited even.

Most amusing about all these accusations and suggestions is, that staff most likely won't be able to implement them because of how unrealistic they are... but now that they see that Keith has done something with the suggestions from this board, they think staff should listen to them... which they won't... and then we are unfair and elitist again... and staff only caters to us... it's a circle we can never escape xP

Only by informing people how the CW system works and reaching out to those who are willing to be reasonable and talk about how we can make this work!

Thank you for reading~~ Yeah...I mean, if someone decides to come at me for anything in the doc it would just be silly and wildly creatively immature. LOL Shoot me a ping for the giveaway when it happens!

Thank youuu~ Yeah...it really comes down to people not understanding the whole process and all the costs associated with submitting a new CW. The only backlash I can see from reading the document is people saying that artists "shouldn't charge that much then". I'll try to come up with an objective explanation as to why that's an issue--I have the idea in my head, just need to put it into words. xD

I'm not really looking to quell their anger with the document--just explain the process, at least in the confines of that document. From what you've listed, that should probably be a whole other document altogether and probably best answered by the staff. Since all the answers to those would concern "staff action" or decisions/verification on their part. That, and the last thing those users want to hear anything from is us. Literally every single one of us in this thread, in the CW forum, or has ever released a CW is being attacked. I honestly don't believe they would listen if it doesn't come from a "person of authority".

I can math it out for you if you want for how little they get paid (most of the time they're making less than US Federal Minimum Wage, and if they make that or above, it's still usually less than the State Minimum Wage for the state in which they live), but I think did it really well on page 4 crosses fingers that it takes you directly to her post

I can give you a less personal math explanation if you want it though for artist pricing.

Yep! It took me there! I put it up as a link in the doc--new "last question" in the question section~ That's pretty much what I was thinking of too...if you're thinking about minimum wage x hours spent (could be somewhere between 5-10 depending on complexity and experience)...the prices being charged are "fair".

that last section of your document was A+++. i think that section should be posted everywhere and anywhere for anyones eyes to see!!!

The link-back won't work for some of them, as this forum is restricted to people who have submitted a CW. But I can do a breakdown that you can copy/paste:

US Federal Minimum Wage is currently: $7.25/hour this can go up, depending on the state in which someone lives (California is currently at a rate of $10.50/hour).

Please remember, this is the bare minimum the government has determined is required to not live on the streets, provided you work 40 hours a week (which most artists do not as there are not nearly enough commissions to account for a full 40 hr/week guarantee).

If the artist charges $50 for the background, and the background takes 10 hours (start to finish, working hours including a CI), they have made $5 an hour. This does not include or account for any edits that may have to be made if there is a denial. Edits can take anywhere from a few minutes to several hours, to several days (depending on the number required based on staff comments). Items have had to be remade from scratch. At this point, every extra hour drops the amount made (because edits are included in your commission price).

Unfortunately, it is neither realistic nor fair to expect an artist to lower their prices to accommodate cheaper slot pricing. Most artists are already working below the required basic living wage, so asking them to do work more cheaply or free is unacceptable.

I'm sure some of you have seen people charging more for their work, in large part that is because they'd like to make at least minimum wage.

For those of you who are not savvy to how the industry works, it can seem crazy, I understand. But coming at this from the outside, I have a friend who is a graphic artist. She laughed at how low the pricing is here. Laughed at it. Told her it was absolutely not worth the time or effort. Most artists providing custom work charge upwards of $20/hour for their time + base pricing for costs. Art is a skill, it requires time and effort to hone, like any other skill (the mechanic who fixes your car didn't just wake up knowing how to do those things, he had to learn). While people may start out with an aptitude for something and some talent, in order to produce quality work, especially on such a small canvas, they have invested their time and often their money. You're not asking them to sweep the floor, you're asking them to create you a custom piece of art designed exactly to your specifications.

From a business standpoint, most graphic artists (which is what custom art is), charge $75-150/hour, some upwards of $300/hour (some significantly more if they're very well known). On the very low end, for folks just starting out most often, the average hourly rate is $25-50/hour. Even if an artist charges $80 for their background here, that is still only $8/hour if it took 10 hours. Sometimes it takes far longer (and of course sometimes it takes less time).

My friend I mentioned above? She wouldn't do it unless she was getting a rate of around $40+/hour. She also wouldn't do it if she had to offer a CSC option as well (which all artists advertising commissions on site are required to do - they must have at least one CSC or sP slot - they are not allowed to accept only USD).

And none of this accounts for artists who live outside the USA and lose out on the exchange rate.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read it!!

Figures...my sister couldn't access this forum xD She helps me keep an eye on stuff when i'm not looking LOL

I love this idea.

"(Basically you can only post an item ONCE, and you cannot ping any groups to that board. It's just a directory that people can subscribe to. It wouldn't be a place for chatting or anything else either. Just specifically you'd post "I've added a new item to my shop, here is the info and here is a link to my shop!")"

Perhaps this would need a mod or just two people in charge with a condensed first few posts in alphabetical order or something? So it doesn't become a post war to see who gets their post in first and so that all the info is on one page. I hope that made sense XD

Like,

Cathii - Has A, B, C, D in shop and currently slotting on E in THIS THREAD Mesmer - Has A in shop and currently slotting on B, C in THIS THREAD Pika - blah blah blah

And set rules for submitted previews / links in a format so that the person running the thread would just copy / paste?

hi! popping in to say that you're incredibly wonderful, i've been following a few threads about this stuff and see you posting a bunch and you explain this stuff way way way better than i ever could!!

that's an awesome document, thank you for making that!!

another random thing that might be good: ping group directory! it could be a thread on the discussion subforum, and i can maintain it myself if need be. basically it'd be a thread where you post your public ping group's name and a link to it and then i (or whoever runs it) will link the group, using the name of it as the text for the link, in the first post. it'd be listed in alphabetical order by username and would also include a section at the top for general groups, like customwear, cwfill, 1stbatch, etc. i feel like this would go a long way with accessibility because it means that people don't have to hunt through dozens of threads trying to find everyone's groups.

also since i should have a couple things to submit soon (in the next couple days-ish), i'll make some voiceovers about the submission processes when i do that! no one actually has to use them for anything and there's probably someone better than me for the job tbh but i'd like to make them anyway just so they're there until someone does make a better one.

<3 Thank you <3

I'm just trying my best to hold together this giant ball of exploding anger we got :(