In response to half-batches and more limited items: limitations can be created to combat this. For instance, if you click "half batch" similar to how you click "direct to cash shop", a dialogue can come up specifically for it: -Direct-to-cash shop with the price automatically set at the base + 100 (so a wig/bg/etc is 600, tattoo/vest/etc is 500, you get the idea) -Must sell 5 copies before it can be locked and/or the price changed.

This way someone can't price the item at 5k so it won't sell, and the minimum of 1 batch is available.

Oooh, another one of these boards!! //cheers

Okay, so a few things. Firstly, I feel like in terms of getting new users involved, maybe if people were given enough CSC to slot on something when first joining, it would entice them into getting involved. I feel like most people tend to ignore CWs until they get involved with them. It's one of those things where when you finally start buying them you can't stop. If we could give people a reason to come looking for CWs, it might help jumpstart the economy just a little bit as well as helping people fill batches and in the long run, get more people interested in them. I'm not sure if anything like this has been suggested already, but I personally feel it's worth looking into.

All in all, I feel like besides releasing and drawing, there isn't much for people to do with CWs. I feel like we should all make an effort to host more events, etc., and try and get people involved. I feel like the more we can get people drawn in, the better things are going to be, ultimately. Idk, just throwin' my two-cents out there.

That makes total sense. Hmm... //wracks brain for more ideas. I can definitely see how that would cause issues. I don't know if considering allowing people to claim a certain amount of CSC from loyalty boxes is still being considered (I think I suggested it on the previous forum), but might that be a possible alternative? I just feel like we need a way to get CSC out to more users who aren't involved in CWs. If we can't give them a reason to get involved or at least make them the tiniest bit curious about them, the problem isn't going to get any better.

I am going to spit ball an idea here in regards to the User Shop and selling in CSC:

Is it possible to sell an item giving the option of both sP and CSC by using a set formula? And the seller could decide if they want to redeem it in CSC or sP?

Say you had a Cash Shop item priced at 100 CSC but you don't use it anymore.

You could sell it at both 100 CSC and (using the formula 12 Mil = 100 CSC) 12 Million sP in your shop. This allows for people to buy whichever is more convenient for them.

Then the seller could either choose a return of sP or CSC regardless of what the purchaser spent.

Honestly people already spend x Amount for Cash Shop Cards... so it's not really different and just cuts out that middle ground.

If you want to restrict this feature just make it GA only

I think setting a set price for CSC is dangerous. And this also pumps more csc into the site that was not purchased with IRL money, and might even hurt the site.

I just want to throw in something from my perspective as someone who has to pay both artists and the site to get items on here.

Please find a way to make submission pricing more dynamic. I have very little motivation to direct most things because why would I pay you 1300 to direct a small item and get one copy of it when I can pay 2000 to submit it like normal and receive 10 copies? (which is what I did during Lumi) Also, why are ears that sit on top of your head a base edit? Why are small wings the same as wings that cover the entire empty space around your HA the same price? And again for hair - why should a simple short hair be the same as an elaborate 'do that eats up a lot of the space on/around your HA?

I get that you've put a lot of energy and focus towards the cw market, but you've done that because it's bringing in money. However, based on talking to other releasers and cw creators....it's not going to keep doing so if we can't get things slotted/released. I had 50+ items set to release at one point, and every time I got a few on site I'd be commissioning more. I currently have (aside from recolors of one set), 7 items left to release. I have barely been commissioning, in large part because I can't slot my items. I can't afford to submit all of this myself under the current system. And if I can't cover it, it's not getting released, so I have little to no motivation to pay someone to design me something that I won't be able to get on site.

Of further note, I think the Pawn Shop is hurting us honestly. Not necessarily the selling part (I see a lot of folks pawning to pay for new slots), but the buying most certainly. I think maybe things should have a 1 month shelf-life max in there. After a month, the item goes to a staff pool to be used for site related things later or something (since y'all have mentioned maybe making a chance machine etc). The number of things languishing in there, even with clear-outs, is too high.

Why is setting a formula/ratio of set amount of sP to CSC dangerous?

awww i was so rooting for a csc-priced shop ;;; I understand why it could create some instability, but we have to find a way to purchase cws from users in an easier way than r200. Lots of people quit the ping group ebcause there's too many, and some users ping 434234 times for the same 5 items that no one is interested in. It's incredibly tedious to find what you are looking for, but it's not the lack of funds.

Just earlier, I made a board asking for people to post their wishlists - and I've sold a huge bunch in a matter of hours. The demand for buying economy is there, it's just made harder than it could be.

because subeta has never wanted to associate a set ratio to csc! If we input a mechanism csc/sp ratio, we're setting up a cost/ratio that can't be skewered to supply/demand. Personally I think the idea would be great but I dont see it being too viable with what we have right now ;c

This. I find a lot of irregularities in pricing coming from the custom wears page directly. I often question myself as to what goes in each categories. I often feel like some pricing are unfair or very sketchy for certain items. To me, categories aren't that clear and X item can be totally different from something else but it would still count as the same category ... ex: tattoos, short wig vs long wig, tiny ears sitting on top of the head, etc. Tldr; it's unclear.

I also cringe every time I need to submit a cw to my shop. It's rather expensive just for one item ... Unless you plan to make it private/limited or in the same branch, why would you submit to your shop in the first place? I don't mind a fee - but that's a very steep fee to me.

Has it been suggested yet? But anyway. I would like to have a "this is a recolour" check box or something. Save me some typing and copy/pasta basically. Plus, I feel like it would be easier for to approve and whatnot.

I support a few suggestions here. I'm glad to see that we have a new board c:

Over time, the value of a dollar IRL will go up and down. Putting money on site is going to fluctuate based with RL economics. CSC should do the same, because in Subeta economy, sP's actual value is always fluctuating as well. The worth of 12mil sp may be 100 csc right now, but that doesn't mean it will stay that way. Just before the quest-a-thon 100 csc was at around 9-10mil. But because of the influx of sP, the price of csc changed. If the price of csc was stagnant at 12mil sP, then the amount of actual csc on site would begin to decrease significantly.

Unfortunately, I don't think Subeta can simply make an exchange rate because they have to account for the csc that is on site and where it's coming from and where it's being spend (as far as I am aware, there are taxes involved in everything cash shop related)

You also have to consider this, with a fixed rate like that, people can manipulate it. A new item came out in the MC that's expensive. A bunch of people convert their csc to sP and the amount of csc plummets. A new cash shop set comes out, people convert sP to csc and the amount of sP plummets. It's a very abuse-able system.

There are other sites that have done this, Mistic Pets? I believe is one of them? And the items on that site are either worthless or so expensive that people without RL money cannot actually afford them. It does not balance out the way you'd want it to.

Ah. That makes sense...

I'm new to releasing CWs (only having gotten one on-site so far) and what's holding me back is batches. I can usually get each batch to 7 or 8 but then I have to foot the bill for at least two copies and that's frankly a chunk of change. I don't mind buying CSC (I do it all the time and have spent mucho money) but I'd like to at least be able to supplement that with my own release shop a little.

I agree that the pawn shop is our best ally and yet our greatest foe. Reselling CWs is almost impossible sometimes because of how cheap some things get in there. I like the ideal of "sell all year but only buy at certain times" but I think selling during black friday will be detrimental to releasers who get a boost during that weekend because of the discount.

I am disappointed that it's not going to be possible to make a personal resale shop because I think it would work so much easier for a lot of people. Would restricting what you can put in a shop by it's rarity be possible? I mean, the pawn shop already calculates the price of an item and auto-prices it, why not something like a personal pawn shop for CWs?

I also agree with about dynamic prices for items. A lot of the guidelines are confusingly vague (and I know it's vague on purpose) but I feel that makes it hard to price and sell a new custom because something that works in a cheaper category might then be pushed through the more expensive one just because it's that hard to tell. Also, I don't agree that a short haired wig is the same price to submit as a wig with so much hair it fills most of the HA space. Maybe don't make the price difference too huge, but enough so that people don't necessarily feel ripped off buying a "smaller" item.

EDIT----------------- Also, from what little I've used it, the CW shop interface isn't that intuitive to me and I think could use some small improvements. Things like item categories similar to what's implemented in the wardrobe is a good start :)

I have seen a lot of people who have good starting off skills but lack the general know how when it comes to making something subeta style or not having thin/weak lineart. A super huge thing for me when it comes to drawing cw's is shading, I've been able to draw a couple things but I have huge issues with shading/light source and CI's so if artists were willing to coach someone on shading for example or even if some artists were willing to help people out with drawing the occasional CI for like $2-3 or something instead of $15. Not everyone can afford to pay $60 for cw art or $15 for a CI. I think we could really up the amount of artists if existing ones were willing to kick in some additional help so that new people can start getting into the game also.

If all it required were 5 slots to get an item onsite it would be amazing, That is a HUGE HUGE issue currently in cw's. Filling batches is tough work and I know people could easily get 5 slots filled but 10 is stretching it at times.

I'm not sure if you are pointing fingers as if we should help - as if we don't help new artists start off. But we actually do through the cw help thread!

It doesn't get as much exposure as I'd like but that's not really in our control - cws should be advertised widely via subeta (:

I understand the whole idea of 'coaching' but you need to remember that we're normal people with busy schedules. I help people as much as I can, but if no one asks me, Im not really the type to yell out in the open either haha

That being said, we did discuss having a mentoring kind of thread. im not too sure how to handle this (and my main concern is time personally) but it's in the works!

I could definitely see us making a place to help people learn, and to make tutorials and the like. I would love to make tutorials in fact! I just need people to step forward and ask for specifics because a 'All around' tutorial would take so much time and effort I don't think it's possible for one artist to illustrate all that. But a database of knowledge could indeed be built.

Also, I can't really comment on the prices because each artist is different. Each of us has spent a different amount of time learning, and have a different amount of time to devote to artwork / CWs. You can always try to make a thread asking if anyone can reach your needs, and if for any reason you cannot find someone willing to draw the item image for that price you can always look for help in the discussion forum to learn to do it yourself!

No, Not pointing fingers. Just saw mesmer wasn't sure what type of tutorial could be offered, I think shading would help a lot for like everyone and help with CI's lol.

It was more of a general blanket statement because there are A LOT of artists who have gotten greedy over time and I have actually asked for help from a couple well known folks within the cw community only to be told they expect payment for pointers, Like what planet are you from that you think your shit is so good you can't help someone out unless you get paid?! That's not what the cw community is supposed to be about and it didn't start out that way, Now you got people charging $80 for what they used to charge $40 for just because they know people will pay because their art is good.

I guess I just feel the whole community of artists could be more helpful as a whole, I've always loved the subeta community for the fact that people are so generous but I feel like some of that got lost in cw's over time and became a giant popularity contest :/

I would also like to see artists like yourself who are genuinely nice approachable people actually come out and say hey I will help you, its ok to ask me questions or to ask me to show you how to do something. I learn by visually seeing things done and if necessary having it broken down a bit further. I get that folks only have so much time to contribute but I think if everyone put forth a little bit of effort it would go a long way. I know you put forth quite a bit and mesmer too as I always see you guys around politely answering folks but not everyone does that and I wish they did.

I would love to see you make tutorials!!

As I mentioned I would love to see a tutorial for shading and for CI's...Like how do you even shade a CI? I'm clueless xD

I agree that people need to step forward but I think what discourages people from doing so is when things like I mentioned above are what happen and then folks think "well if this is the kind of response I am getting from asking then why should I bother trying to get myself out there"

It's just kind of a tough situation all the way around..We need to go back to how things were when stuff first started...Didn't matter if your art was super well known or if you were popular, etc.

I will say I do hope the 5 slot thing gets implemented so that it helps new artists be able to get onsite and become established better.

You of course do not have to agree with someones prices, or even purchase their art if you do not like their prices. I do think you should at least give people the respect they deserve, even if you cannot afford their artwork though. You're not just paying for the art after all, you're also paying for their experience and services. If it was 'so easy' it should be cheaper, then you would simply be able to do it yourself!

That aside, I would love to help making a tutorial! A 'Shading' tutorial is a very broad subject though. If you entirely do not know how to shade, that may not be something I personally have the time to coach you from scratch in. I can offer help with specific things such as "A tutorial on how to shade metal" or "A tutorial on how to shade fur." but a big, blanket shading tutorial is something I cannot produce because it would take days, maybe even weeks for me to get together everything needed to provide a full run down on something like that. For something like that I highly recommend a place like DeviantArt where you can search up MANY tutorials and see many different perspectives and styles, rather than just one from one artist such as myself! I think most artists here shade a bit differently. C:

Please also keep in mind that not everyone may have as much time to reply as Cathii and I, and therefore they may not be being mean or rude about it, they just simply do not have the time to allocate that. Other things can also be in the way, such as social anxiety, or perhaps English not being their first language, and maybe even they're just not sure HOW to help! If you need help, as Cathii has suggested, the denial and help board is a great place to find people with the time and knowledge to help you, so you don't run into someone who might not have that to give at the moment C:

If you're looking for tutorials on how to draw and shade in Subeta style, there's actually a stickied thread that has been around for quite a long time: right here - it even has a video. Granted, the piece in there is older, but it gives you the basics in how to shade and how to source the light properly.

As for pricing - first off, most people do not charge $15 for a CI. Most of them are far cheaper, but it depends on the artist of course (and the complexity).

Also - you're not really paying an artist double for the same work they were producing 4 years ago. These artists have all grown amazingly over the last several years. You're also paying them for their time. $80 might seem like a lot to you, but when a background takes them 10 hours to complete, that's only $8/hour - I do not work for $8/hour. That is less than the minimum wage in my state. Also, there are a fair number of artists who are not in the USA - so they're taking USD and converting it to their currency, losing out in the process. CW artistry is a business, and expecting someone to do the work for half of what they could make doing literally any other job for that hour is not really reasonable.