Yeah, it seems like they've completely changed their minds on that and I really can't understand why. My gallery currently has just under 21k items in it and it never gives me any trouble loading just because of the number of items. The only time I have issues is when I have a gold account and it has to pull up all of the pricing info because of that. If they made galleries a separate thing, then that would eliminate that issue and just having huge galleries shouldn't put that much of a strain on the servers, because it doesn't seem to do so right now.

Yeah... I feel like the lack of faith and trust toward staff is the biggest hurdle here. And the truly sad thing is - they only have themselves to blame for that.

Considering the amount of unfinished revamps (and scrapped projects), is anyone on staff even honestly surprised that the userbase is so apprehensive toward a massive change like this? Legit question.

We were promised a new wardrobe. Wardrobe v2 came and died, wardrobe v3 still isn't 100% functional. We were promised new forums. New forums came, they're still laggy and still not 100%. We were promised the minion zoo. It was pushed toward beta testing for GA users and then forgotten because it took staff months to figure out that balancing a whole new battling system is going to be really hard for one person to handle. We were promised new cults. 6 years going (possibly longer), and the only thing we have to show for it are forum groups which are, you guessed it, still not 100% and are nowhere near being a good substitute for cults. We were promised bugfixes. Only to be told that the bugs we want fixed are low priority quality-of-life things and they really can't focus on fixing them when there are so many bigger things to fix. We were promised a recode. We all remember how that ended. There's (sadly) plenty more where these came from, but these are the big things that I can remember off the top of my head right now.

It's not the shop limit that bothers us, I think. It's the fact that we're afraid that this is going to end up being the nail in the coffin for the site. That it's going to end up pushed aside and forgotten because of "more important bugfixes", like so many things before it. Sadly, staff has shown time and time again that we can't always fully rely on them and we're scared.

Past mistakes are going to be viciously scrutinized, especially if you've let them pile up over the years. Snapping at us to "have some trust" as was done in another topic about another thing entirely (the glitch abuse discussion in the snowman competition, I think?) isn't going to help.

You can't undo 10+ years of degrading trust with a few sentences on how you're absolutely going to do this perfectly this time around. Actions speak louder than words and judging by the past actions (and some posts on this topic), we have all reason to be worried.

I would love to be proved wrong on this, in fact I'd love nothing more. But until that happens, I am going to be apprehensive. I am going to be grumpy. I am going to be worried. Because I've spent nearly 11 years on this site and I don't want it to kill itself off because of good intentions that weren't fully thought through.

Maybe they just couldn't figure out how to separate the systems with the current coding?

It feels like they can't seem to figure out how to make anything work with the current coding, so why not finally do a damn recode?

I agree with what said, it's the lack of trust between users and staff that's bothering people the most, and the reason why so many people are panicking now even if it turns out to be okay later down the road.

Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup. You make a good point.

Well, the problem is they aren't really giving any sort of timeline. It's just okay, that's happening on that day and then..... Well we'll see I guess.

I could deal with these limits for a couple weeks, but a couple months?

I don't mind the idea of shop limits, but functionally? Right now? Ooooof.

If the vaults were halfway useable, that would help. But the vaults are all but useless. You can't search for much, even with the new improvements, and your choices are "remove one or remove all". You can't have a few of an item in that category and have a few of that same item over in another category.

Improve the vaults FIRST. THEN limit shops.

Exactly, they say we'll see how it goes in the future, but I have a feeling this could easily turn into any of the other features they've started and then abandoned. It would probably take me a few months anyway to go through all of the items currently in my gallery, but I wouldn't know what to do with new items I get after adding new items to it is disabled. Especially with Vesnali coming up, I was planning on grabbing loads of items but I guess I won't if I have nowhere to put them.

Still upset about the reversal of the unlimited galleries thing.

Actually you can remove different amounts of items from your vault. Check the box for the item you want, and then at the bottom where it says "Quick Vault Options" you can choose a number to remove from the dropdown. I agree about the categories thing though, that is annoying.

Oh really? Okay, that's one slight improvement. The vaults in general, though...there's a reason I use shops for storage. They're so terribly unwieldy.

Also, yeah, what everyone else said about the laughably low limit at the moment. WHAT THE HECK EVEN.

I think I might have found what I was looking for, but it's not the brainstorming thread I thought it was. It was a tangent in a topic about forum group limits.

I linked to each post at the end of each quote, because citations are important. 👍

Sept 19, 2014:

So it's going to be like the achievement import debacle all over again? This honestly terrifies me. If there's anything you can do behind the scenes to make the move easier, you should seriously look into it.

The site crashes when I quickstock a full inventory-load of items (250) into my shop now, so I have little faith for how the site will hold up when hundreds of people have to move thousands of items apiece all at once. It's also a ton of work for players, and feels like a punishment.

I've been thinking about galleries. Pet treasure chests are galleries and the items we have in them don't turn up in shop searches. Surely it would be possible to create new galleries using the treasure chest system.

Yeah I didn't know you could do that either until like a couple of months ago, so I'm not sure how long it's been around. Probably a while and I just never noticed.

But yeah, I don't really like the idea of shoving a bunch of items into my vault only to have that start lagging and being weird too, so then my items are just stuck there. I already know I'm just going to leave my current gallery items alone for now, hoping that maybe they'll figure out a way to make galleries separate like they said. I just don't know what I'll do with any new items I get that I want to keep instead of frag or sell.

I think there was an update a month or so back, I remember a little post in feedback about better ability to move items from one category to another. Wish that had been more widely shared when it happened.

I really need to be able to search by type, at the very least. Vaults are pretty nonfunctional for me. :c

Yeah, and to be honest, move all the items WHERE? Into my vault? Ugh, see the above. The servers are going to commit suicide over my items alone.

Edit: And yeah, what about people's galleries? Sucks to be you if you want something more comprehensive than a few hundred items to show off, I guess? Sigh.

And I was all excited about vesnali and maybe a new pet species. WELL NOW I'M NOT.

Thank you for those quotes! One week of beta testing by gold users does seem a bit on the light side for the proper testing that was asked for ;_;

So it seems like even back then they were talking about having everyone move their items, but I just don't understand where they expect us to move them to.

I did post something in response to the line of thinking with the vault issue on Page 3 of this thread:

http://subeta.net/forums.php/gotopost/59066638 They're so stuck on getting us to move things to vaults, but even putting aside how annoying some of the vault features are, I've heard people say that vaults with too many items in them take forever to load. Whereas my shop that has thousands of items in it loads fine. I don't understand their reasoning in this.

The treasure chest system is awful if you want to put more than like 20 items at once in there.

while manual organizing helps a lot with customisation, you have to do all of it yourself, with a terrible archaic system who is shit on mobile

I'm sorry to say, but I can't find any reason what could be the improvement about those limitations at the shops. I don't understand what kind of benefit this could really give at the site. :|

Haha, I was just reading those pages! I saw Keith's post on page 2 about how vaults aren't used as much and are therefore not as hard a drain on servers:

And it's like, REALLY? Does ANYONE realize that the second we're not keeping all the things in our stores but our vaults, server demand on the vaults will increase by orders of magnitude? I mean, LMFAO I really hope that the coding of the vaults is that much more magical than the stores, because otherwise, we'll just see how long the site holds out when everyone's rummaging through their vaults simultaneously every day.

Exactly. For me, vaults are where items go to die where I look at them once for Luminaire presents. If I put my probably 50k unique items (plus duplicates) into my vault, that's going to take FOREVER to load and it's going to be a permanently-open second tab as I go through it for sellables.

This just feels like doom encroaching.

I realize I'm probably one of the problem shops here, but that's been my playstyle for coming up on 10 years now. Restocking rares/super rares that aren't in demand through the shops (user and npc), accumulating quite a number of them, and then pricing them where I want them to sell. Sometimes they sit in my shop for years, but that also ensures that when there's a spike in demand, there's items purchaseable. It also makes it so that I can do my quests and give out in-demand items without breaking my bank.

This item repository-like function has been pretty integral to how I have understood the site's economy mechanics from the player side. With this being the assumed "normal" play function, veteran users with the same playstyle are going to switch this utility to their vaults. Currently, vaults are very clumsy to use, I would propose these changes to make the transition smoother:

-If you can't do a "quickstock this shop to vault" option due to server strain, perhaps a "quickstock this page of the store to vault". -Have vaults be searchable instead of or in addition to user shops during questing.

I foresee a great deal of volatility coming with the impending Great Shrink, I know with my total 55k items in my shops I am in no way positively incentivized to change without some sort of tweaks going through along with this radical change that is supposedly so neccessary to the functioning of the site..

Right now, my current inclination is to take a 6 month hiatus.

I feel like this should all be looked at by a programmer outside of the current team. This can't possibly be the only solution.

It's also completely crazy to try to implement something like this before even making it possible to move items en masse.

Yeah that's what really gets me, they don't seem to grasp the concept that the reason vaults aren't accessed much now is because we have the galleries. Once those are taken away, where are they expecting all of these items to end up? Honestly it feels like they'd rather just have a bunch of items deleted and gone from the site, but they can't do that without pissing everyone off completely.

Especially because they've mentioned that it's the pricing thing that causes the most problems, so why can't they just make galleries separate and eliminate that issue? Then we could store our things without that affecting the site. I just want a reliable place to keep my items.