as someone who spends money on the site, I do think it is wise to let users know actual numbers to a degree.

Even more so with the fact the site has been going banana's for the past few months (since the server switch, it would seem). A breakdown of the costs of maintenance and any future obligations might be a good thing to share because as of late, I feel like the little bit of cash I have put in hasn't been of any help to resolve any of the sites current concerns or problems.

I'm aware that maintenance (domain, hosting) takes a fair amount out of the funds earned each year. Though, it would be nice to know a ballpark figure or estimate of how much these are alone because an aged domains price may increase, yearly. I can't really say much about how much it costs to host though I'm sure that can get steep for a site like subeta.

For all I know the staff are working in the background discussing these very things… Which also comes back to the fact that with so much not working properly it leaves us, the users and paying members a tad flustered when things don't work properly for months on end. Hence the need for further communication, again.

Granted I know the site works a ton better than it did when I first started playing roughly eight years ago. I remember the ups, downs and all arounds on a daily scale, lol.

let's say the daily goal is $500 (it's not, or it could be but that's just a random number I'm throwing out) what did you gain from knowing this number?

The issues you're bringing up are communication problems that wouldn't be solved by knowing how much the daily goal is. It would be nice to know if they are working on why the HAs aren't updating, or why a lot of images are broken. other than the first time a few days ago that the HA problem was fixed, I haven't heard if they are working on it. Not hearing if they are working on some pretty major issues is frustrating and we can only assume nothing has been done about it if we haven't heard any word from anyone.

knowing the number allows me to personally get a general feel of what the cost is or may be needed behind the scenes. Should the daily or monthly total goal be larger for say, a complete rewrite of the code and needing to hire someone to redo just the coding and then another for the graphics portion, I could make sense of those funds even if they are inflated estimates. For me it would justify how the money that comes in is spent or allocated to some degree and ease my mind knowing that I'm not tossing my funds into the wind.

Yes, I know all about the wardrobe issue and the staff did something which allowed HAs to update, only to find myself dealing with the same issue after the board was closed. That is a bug I hope they fix with many other issues that keep being band-aided. Of course they should say something about the fusses regarding these issues, like the wardrobe and why they don't is baffling.

it was fixed today, but there wasn't any real word from staff until it was fixed. it would be nice to get a heads up "hey we're working on this" when it's something as big as the wardrobe isn't working.

The goal I am guessing is constant, the same number each day. fixed costs are fixed, something like this doesn't really have too many variable costs I wouldn't think. Keith did mention he may hire a new programmer, so the daily goal would probably go up a bit. I think you're asking more to know how the funds are spent than how much we need to make each day. I would think the funds would be spent something like this: pay the costs of what it takes to keep the site online - server costs domain stuff other stuff I don't know about. pay the staff. taxes probably require some money? rest will go into Keith's pocket where he can then decide what to do with it. if he's making more than the daily goal on average, maybe he'll decide to hire some more people. I don't really see why we need to know the details. I think getting enough money to hire someone to do a complete rewrite isn't included in the daily goal at all, the daily goal is just for upkeep. something like a rewrite would be done with profits. we don't find anything out about profits as it is now because the daily goal ends at 100%, and we can only gauge "the daily goal was reached at 3pm, that means any csc purchased after that time results in a profit for the day" but it's impossible for us to know how much was bought and if those profits are enough to balance out the days prior that didn't reach the daily goal.

When the Kickstarter funding was first proposed, several users promised to donate only if the money was slated specifically for the recode or hiring a new programmer, and would not be used for anything else. Unless there is such a caveat, I would not support a Kickstarter or any other Subeta fundraising either.

It's just been too many promises of the mythical recode that would fix everything, or the new servers that would make everything perfect, or the other new servers that would be 10X better, or Cloudflare is going to be seriously awesome and won't let us down, or the New Wardrobe is going to be so much better you guys oops here's a half finished version instead, etc. for me to really trust Subeta readily anymore.

no there wasn't any news update or any other type of update regarding the wardrobe. Then again from what I am aware of the wardrobe only started to malfunction (not updating HAs). I'm aware of the other issues that are wrong with it and have been wrong with it since day one… I don't really think much about it because, well, I've settled and acknowledged that's just how it'll be because it's not in my hands to fix or attempt to fix or repair for that matter.

All I'm asking is to know what the site earns roughly and what the funds are going towards since at least 90% of the users are still the primary source of support with the remaining 5% to 10% being advertisement even after almost two years of the bar being put on the site (source). I don't think the daily goal is just for day to day site maintenance, although you might be right and I may be wrong.

I don't need to know what staff make or if the profits earned on any given day are pocketed. Just a rough estimate of the total would be nice and how that total will be divvied up towards site maintenance (glitches and the like) or anything else the users have repeatedly asked for.

Any way, it is what it is and for all I know as I mentioned before they could be working on many of the fusses users have made in the background. They ought to update more frequently regarding things that are going awry on the site though for whatever reason they keep it hushed. I try not to let things bug me, but a bit more communication and transparency would be nice when it comes to the fact that users are investing in the site with real money.

I must have been on hiatus or never came across it when there was a proposal for a kickstarter. As I thought this was a new suggestion. It sounds like users have offered and the call to help has been put on hold or the phone is just ringing. Sad really to know that such a support in the community has risen and it has fallen on deaf ears and blind eyes.

Yeah the proposal for a kickstarter was with a nice backing of users. Especially around tax rebate time when we can afford to donate more. Shame it never happened because maybe things would of been different by now.

oh I was just referring to the HAs not updating getting fixed. the problem with the wardrobe is that it was released when it wasn't even half finished. of course it isn't going to work. if it ever gets fixed and it works completely, I will be very very happy o_o

that source just says the daily goal is how much they need to maintain the site so it can continue to grow. I think that just means the costs to keep it operational "The site operates on a daily budget" I think that is what it is. I just don't think we'll ever get a ballpark of real numbers, and I don't actually think we need to know anything when it comes to real numbers. Maybe finding out what priorities staff has would be a good thing to find out, and I think they'd be more willing to share their priorities with us than finances.

I agree we need more frequent updates when things go wrong.

Is this true? In the past, I've seen many days were it didn't even hit the 100% nor come close to it, and the site was still up and running ~ ^.^ ~

I hear ya. Would have been nice if the offer had at least been taken up upon. Things would be different though I do wonder if they'd be any better or if we'd have some of the same issues still. Do you know if there was any reason for why the idea was shunned?

ah, I see. My apologies I tend to be scatter brained sometimes. Unfortunately, with the HA's not showing up on the second thread regarding the broken HAs; Keith posted that he had done some work on the avatar servers and that he thought he might have resolved the issue.

[-Guru] the source that I posted says the following regarding the daily goal:

~ Thank you for sharing ~ ^.^ ~

The only concern I have is this:

Unfortunately, I don't see it as being able to keep track of our individual contributions? Maybe I'm just not understanding it fully.

[-Guru] I think it's just a graphic representation of how everyone's donations as a whole keep the site up and running. nothing individual.

~ Yes, I kept reading it over and over. I guess reading the words

[-Guru] you're welcome. I believe the way explained it is how it is/was meant.

And no worries, the wording is confusing when they put it in terms of you and yours.

[-Guru] I don't think that's the intent though, but I can see how you interpreted it that way :)

~ I agree. Sometimes when reading things, I may take it literally, and that raises questions ~ ^.^ ~

EDIT: ~ Thank you for your explanation ~ :D ~

Man, I read every single post in this thread and all I could think is "the site needs to be sold". I thought a hiatus would quell the hurricane of upset that I felt during my personal contact with staff after the wardrobe was basically destroyed, but nope. I only feel even more certain that bad things are happening.

I'm genuinely not joking. I feel that there is no real professionalism to Subeta as a business model and I know that I can't trust the promises of things getting fixed. The communication is rubbish and the staff posts I see on this thread are just vague 'soon's... again. I see that Keith has said in this thread that some problems are just not a priority... and omg does that just make me lose the last bit of energy I had to care. ALL problems are always a priority. I thought being told "V2 is gone and it will never be talked about on site again" took it all away, but nope, it's the 'these issues many users have complained about for years aren't a priority for me because money'. You don't have a site without dedicated users who have respect for staff, and if they respect you they'll spend money. I've noticed the 'goal' bar hasn't been completed many days I stop in. Doesn't seem to me that there's been better interaction or growth lately at all. A bunch of new users who many not play for more than a few months is not more successful than your (formerly) dedicated userbase sticking around.

There's a simple answer for your money troubles: Sell the site. It really feels like you don't care anymore and it's just so disrespectful to the staff and the customers to repeat yourself months apart with promises that never get fulfilled. We all deserve better treatment and personally I'm one of the people who the OP mentioned not spending cash on the site anymore. It's a waste of our resources to release new CS art instead of revamping old CS art, a deliberate destruction of the economy and the building of a class system to release the best weapons in the CS and say 'oh, you can get them from users if you spend many hours each day onsite' and 'this cash-based currency that shouldn't be part of the economy and has totally destroyed it? We need you to buy a bunch or you can't play with all the other stuff you payed for and invested years in'... jesus I could go on and on. The bad business decisions just... they're everywhere, in nearly every choice about content releases, in personal interactions... and the users who want people to stop complaining are nearly just as bad.

I get 'Oh it's not all about you and people like you' a lot from supporters (I used to be one of you, always here for the site, supportive and excited. You're not going to change my mindset back to yours by saying that to me) and tbh it's about each individual customer and NOT the group. Customer service is ALWAYS about the individual. I shudder to think what I would my reaction would have been if I'd spent the three hundred dollars I was about to spend here and then the past few months happened. SO glad I spent my money elsewhere.

tl:dr We need an investor or buyer who's dedicated and professional, not more of what we have. We need to remove CSC from the sp economy or it will never balance out. Stop paying for new art when old art is bad. I can hardly stand to be onsite right now because of staff-user interactions I've had. Rage and typing incoherently into the void.

Bye now. Back to the hiatus world with me!

if you're talking about the battly weapons in the cash shop, none of them are the best. the CS weapons are all pretty lackluster except Rainbow Vortex is good, but that is far from necessary, and Cronus which comes from a cash shop opponent. Most of the "best weapons" come from plots. that's a minor point in everything you just said, which you do bring up good points. Small issues despite not affecting much should be addressed even though they're "low priority". if they stick around, they add up and make the site look pretty sloppy. I don't think selling the site would do any good, I actually think it would make it worse. What we need is some word on what is actually getting worked on right now. Are all of the programmers still working on the attack and server issues? Why do the HAs keep not updating? are the avatar servers getting attacked? I would like to believe things are getting worked on but without signs of improvement or word from staff it just looks like nothing is happening.

If that happened, people who spend real money buying CSC so they can sell gift cards for sP will stop doing it. Meanwhile, the people who use sP to buy the gift cards because they can't afford to spend real money on the site still won't be able to afford to spend real money.

That and Keith said he would never sell the site and a post I saw from him on tumblr, he asked who would keep the site open and running if he did? Which is a very good question. Who actually would do that? There isn't any promise that this person will keep it up and not just strip the guts out of it and leave us with a site we never knew.

I can't say I fully agree on the CSC thing anymore. At times I can agree that if CSC cards was taken out it would help with sP worth but at the same time I've needed those cards too. It's hard to say what would be best. Who is to say this won't make users who buy and sell it upset enough they stop buying any CSC at all which would hurt Subeta even MORE than just taking it out of the market?

I hope after Keith hires that new programmer he's talked about, he can reconsider the kickstarter and get another programmer to work on a recode while the others manage the day to day and other bugs.