Lol I wanna but I feel like I've garnered enough attention from users for one day XD Lol we should bribe someone else to make it for us

Are you arguing for it to be removed entirely now? Or are you suggesting that since we can't fix something 100%, we shouldn't bother trying? That's horribly pessimistic.

I think the most dangerous thing about threads like this isn't that everything will suddenly become super PC and spoil everyone's fun (which is what many of these posts are suggesting). It's that people start jumping in to be offended on behalf of other people. If someone still finds the rolling pin offensive after this change, let's leave it to them to speak up about it. Don't project and start trying to decide for them whether it's still offensive or not.

maybe we'll luck out and Amber or Ariel are actually still reading this thread and suggest that to whoever is in control of making a simple form. I don't know if either of them can make such a page.

I think that's what I've been trying to say with no success. you should be my translator :(

I have a hard time imagining there's anything they can't do XD They're the queens of subeta imo!

I know Amber does have coding in her background but I don't know if she's actually allowed to do that sort of thing on the site. I'd like to know what each staff is allowed to do and not to do, we need a detailed staff page. They both do so much for the site though.

Gosh a detailed staff page would be pretty useful too! That way when something's wrong we know who to ping, and don't bother other staff Plus it sounds interesting XP

like if you had a small issue and you just want to ask through a comment instead of a ticket or something so formal like that (if staff doesn't mind this) yeah it would help out. it would be very interesting though. I see a name with a red icon occasionally and go hm I've never seen them in my life, wonder what they do.

but now I'm going way off topic, so comment me if you want to chat further.

If this was an item that was derogatory, or racist or attacked someone's beliefs, I'd be all for changing it. But it's not. I'm clearly not the one who decides on these things, but that is where I tend to draw the line.

This is why I liked the original version far better. When it's such a blatant play on a trope, it will always evoke discussion and awareness for the actual problem. That's why I love all the supposed controversial items on here. But the change might make a few people feel better about it. And that's totally fine. It's not like I'm against people feeling better. Just for me, personally, this change fixes nothing. That's all I meant.

This has been said already, but for what it's worth, I second the item being changed again following 's suggestion, or at least a middle ground being found. It can't be a middle ground if the other party hasn't been asked for input.

I don't think the age of the item should have any impact on how things are dealt with. If the current CW system is replaced by something different in the next 6 years, I sure don't want to log in one day - presuming I'll still be active on the site - and find out one of my CWs was changed without me getting a notice via mail or a request for my input on it. Not because Subeta HAS to do it, but because it's the best route to build trust between users and staff, so we'll keep submitting custom content to the site. It's how things have been working lately, I wouldn't expect it to be any different regardless of the active custom system at the time. That would feel like a step backwards.

With each/all of these changes, there's a big risk of sparking a cascade reaction from other people who are offended by whatever item. There are plenty of legitimate reasons for people to dislike the FiF shirts, the feathery headdresses, the fetus pops, certain virus strains available during Survival or, to follow the marriage theme at hand, the bowling ball and chain. In my personal opinion, this particular item isn't any more offensive than the ones I just mentioned, so I wouldn't find it worthy of taking said risk. Much less the annoyance.

TL;DR - I wouldn't think this should be changed, but since it did, it should allow for the creator/receiver's input, considering at least one of them is still active. Doesn't look like that happened, so my vote goes for changing it a second time.

Would you consider though that perhaps the reason the item was altered without asking for opinions/consultation was that themselves had mentioned they didn't care if the item was altered? It could have been viewed as a blase "go ahead" for staff to do as they please and the result now may be nothing short of a misunderstanding.

Jesus, don't joke about something so precious </3. While I hardly ever swear... or even visit the forums these days, the freedom to express myself in any bloody way I want to is something I really appreciate on this site.

Which brings to question from everyone making a point that because an individual is personally offended, it doesn't mean they have to make a big deal about it; isn't the point of having a "site feedback" to begin with a tool to give you, the user/consumer, the liberty of expressing your opinions of how you have reacted to a certain aspect of the product or in this case anything pertaining to the site, including its items?

There is a difference between being subjectively and objectively offensive. There are various things we can and cannot make jokes of and if people, as a community, cannot discuss without attacking whether or not something falls into one category or the other then that's the real failure. I would say a comedic trope used to make light of a situation where both physical and mental injury are products of is objectively offensive.

I personally don't care for the item being changed or not, I can compartmentalize. However, I had a very aggressive father and I find no value in attempting to desensitize the subject by obscuring it in humor with a bit of symbolism thrown in. To be clear, I'm not attacking the item itself here nor saying it's going to cause a string of PTSD on me but rather I find the form of comedy itself is without value. People become uncomfortable when in situations that are delicate or beyond their complete comprehension (as in lacking personal experience, not intelligence) and thus turn to humor. I get that. And a little nervous laughter inappropriately released is understandable. However, this form of humor can also be viewed as a way of making the act less socially unacceptable than it truly is (again, not attacking the item directly). It's actually rather crass at times.

Maybe it's not always ok for me because I'm probably the minority here. From the years I've spent in America I've become accustomed to what my culture would consider a bunch of incredibly socially unacceptable acts. Such as most Chris Rock jokes I've heard, disability jokes, and not excusing yourself to blow your nose. A lot of people here find it petty but it's a big no no where I'm from, especially done in restaurants (they do have bathrooms you know, just saying). There are a compendium of examples, not just those, and in a more restful state I could probably come up with better ones. The point is that depending on your background you may or may not be offended by some things and if there is a significant population on Subeta that are offended or are feeling discomfort by something, isn't it ok to compromise and allow them that leniency? And even if just one individual becomes offended, how is it in any way alright to demean them just because of their opinion? I mean, I love spiders and I always wanted a tarantula growing up but my mother can't stand them. Instead she got a dog and nearly kicked out the hamster I brought home one day (she's not heartless, bless her soul she actually eventually fell in love with my little hairball once she got used to her... Though she still doesn't accept rodents with tails which I find really weird). I'm not going to hold it against her for being irrational or 'sensitive' because of her fear and most people wouldn't in such a case (I would hope???) so why should we hold it against strangers? Why should the opinions of someone whom you've never met be any less valued?

Perhaps the main issue is that there are better ways to word things. Like how some item descriptions here are insulting but clearly sarcastically so. Or have split personality descriptions like the Miracle Meal item. With the pin it was attempting to be comically violent but it had no punch line I guess is what I'm attempting to clarify...

I'm not sure that made sense, 4 AM is pushing it for my brain to function the way I'd like it to.

Partially! The thing is, the user's consent is the only part that is implied. I mean, usually this is how things go with CWs: if staff has decided the item needs to be changed, either art-wise or on its name/description, we're notified of it and asked for input on how it could be from that point onwards (or we're requested the art fix in some cases, if it's art). It's not like we can say "oh no, I don't want this to be changed!", as that decision isn't ours to make; we can only offer some input on its new version, as a compromise!

So that's probably why I didn't read much into 's consent there, it's not like any of us is in a position to say "no", but she could have offered good suggestions as to how the item could look potentially less offensive / how to reword it without completely losing its meaning! I don't really mind it being a misunderstanding if it's the case, after all, it shouldn't be too much hassle to make an additional tweak to the item's text, since it doesn't touch the art or requires reuploads c:

Because there are groups of users who are uncomfortable with x or y item and those items haven't been changed.

So it's basically saying they have to suck it up and stay uncomfortable, because their offense toward the item doesn't merit changing ... unlike yours.

There are equally offensive item names/descriptions as I and others have pointed out and yet nothing's done about them. Not because people aren't offended. Not because people aren't uncomfortable. Because certain people ARE and will be. It's because staff doesn't think the items merit changing.

So that's why I think some will be upset at this (including myself and I think this is what you, , were also talking about, feel free to disagree with me if I got it wrong).

Because subeta essentially decided on which item merits changing. I guess congrats on censoring an item and feeling more comfortable? Everyone else who is bothered by any other item can just suck it the hell up. That's like saying, "My discomfort was more important than yours." That's really unfair and why I don't think this needed to be censored (beyond what said, those I wouldn't have a problem with changing but this item didn't apply to race, etc.).

I don't really see this snowballing into a totally PC subeta, but it does set more precedence, and because there are still people offended over certain items, it leaves the entire situation unfair (and that's not even lack of consultation with Luxe or DebiLee, which is another level of unfair). And that just leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.

subeta really must learn to say no sometimes. you know, to make things interesting around the site. trying to make everyone happy all the time is boring. you guys have the most features compared to any other pet site i've ever been, but to be honest it is very boring cause you have everything and try to please every cry. there is no satisfaction of getting around limitation or to just complain about things. can we just complain without getting fixed? i feel offended subeta keep fixing things. i just want to complain. GHHHAAAAADD!!

This is the only consent I've given all along so I'm not entirely sure how that was read as permission, to be honest.

I also wonder if anyone remembers when Subeta removed all of the gypsy items from the site, but there was one lingering custom hanging around because...

So...?

Because you're expecting too much. I mean that as sarcastically as possible.

This. I don't even own any of these shirts because of it.

As someone who was abused as a child and witnessed my father abusing my mother, this item was NOT offensive in any way. I laughed when I saw it before. Geez, it's just a common trope... using kitchen equipment to smack some sense into a dumb spouse. It's not being serious in any way.

But, whatever. I just hope political correctness doesn't rule the day on Subeta. There's too much of that in society.

The point is it's only funny because it's about women beating on men! :) There's nothing wrong about that, they probably deserve it!

And if a picture/description can't hurt anybody the word gypsy shouldn't have either! Can't erase history etc. through censorship, y'know.

Still no more pings needed.

The Fif shirts literally have a homophobic slur in my own language on them, I find this way more offensive than a rolling pin item, because this is something pejorative I have to deal on a daily basis, in conversations. This is the equivalent to "fag" in my own slang.

I'm not making a thread about it, because I just have to ignore the items and never look at them, ever, unless Quentin asks me for one and I'm pleased because it means one less in existence. I'm seriously uncomfortable around these, always have been, but I can't really expect Subeta to cater to me. I have to move on, and choose my battles to fight.