tips hat pretty sure I just wrote a very annoyed TLDR though.

Annoyed TLDRs make the world go 'round.

I wish, if that was the case I wouldn't need a better paying job ;)

lol, true. If I was rich I'd totally hire people to yell at internet morons for me, though.

As a common female (no, I'm not a cis thing.. I do not like being called that so calling me that is rude and doing so makes you just as bad as the people who do that shit to you) (you being the general you) I can say that the term "female" can be just about offensive to everyone.

In bootcamp those of us graced with vaginas were, derogatorily, called female. MOVE FASTER FEMALE. WHAT'RE YOU DOING FEMALE. GET IN LINE FEMALE. CAN'T YOU IRON SOME DAMN SKIVVYS FEMALE? After 8 weeks of that, even many years later, calling me female (with exception to health care professionals or in context of needing to know for legal reasons) will result in me punching you in the face. It's extremely rude, regardless of what sexual reproductive organs sit in between your legs.

I do get that the avatar system is asking you about your sex and not your gender however if it was asking me if I was a Cisfemale or Cismale I'd get fucking pissed and never use the fucking system (not that I regularly do but I digress)-- so I get why some might want this changed. I really like 's super simple and effective change that solves just about every problem that can be addressed (problems not being able to be addressed would of course be actual base changes as the site has FAR too many wears + CWs to change anything like that this late in the game).

PS: It doesn't matter what it entails to, the minority should NEVER be outcasted because it makes the site look bad. When the site looks bad, people leave and tell their friends to not bother, then the site stops existing. It's a fantastic professional idea to put a little effort into pleasing as many people as possible when at all possible, because that's what makes it welcoming and makes people stay (:

That's why I get in a tiff when people put down making more male wears or more non-wearable items in general. Just because 90% of users love desusparkleprincess clothes doesn't mean the other 10% do-- and my filthy petperson money is just as good as the next persons.

No, it started because some people - yes, including the op - might (do) feel uncomfortable. I'm not offended. I've encountered too much worse than 'male' and 'female' labels on pixels (heck, just read this thread to see some of it) in my life than to be offended by something like that. I just thought it was something that would make the site more inclusive, and something that I, personally, would like to see. That's what the suggestions forum is for - posting things that you, personally, think would add something positive to your experience of using the site.

Tbh I didn't read through most of the thread but jfc you're right. Just because you (general you) disagree with someone doesn't mean you (again, general you) can be so disrespectful. D: some of the things people here have said....

I still stand by that, if it can be done easily, the best solution is to have full body pictures. Otherwise I'm fine with using the male-sexed HA as my androgyne base. Sex != gender and I had to learn to deal with that ages ago. Any other word/terminology will eventually get outdated anyways

edit: I have no idea why your ping popped up twice midsentence....sorry!

if you'd like, you're welcome to add my mockup to your first post

(scode is very similar to bbcode, if you're familiar with that)

Yeah, it's all right. I get what you're saying and I agree that its not the end of the world but if something can be made more inclusive imo it should be so I wanted to post this so I could see how others were feeling about it and if it could feasibly be done.

Thanks! I did that :)

Makes sense. I should've read the thread more closely. I assumed you were one of those people who like to speak for people like me and it grated on my nerves...my bad. G'luck with the thread

S'all right. I didn't want to make it too personal cause I wanted to prevent some arguments (that happened anyway) and I just used Quentin as an example because I know a lot of people don't know any non-binary people in real life but they're a recognisable character on the site so I thought maybe people would get it a bit more... not sure that it worked heh. Thanks for the luck c:

There's a lot of hate going around (from both sides), but I think it's unfair to say the staff is not inclusive. For your profile, there's already the option 'male/female/none' for gender. And in the beta wardrobe, the base already says 'sex', which, as has been pointed out, is a biological thing. I don't get offended or upset because the female base has breasts and I barely have them (despite being female). I don't get offended or upset because there's no 'chunky' option even though I'm not the skinniest. You pick the base you prefer. Heck, I picked male cause my HA is based off of a youtuber, who is male. It's such a slight difference anyway, I fail to see the problem. The labelling has been improved in the beta wardrobe (gender is a cultural thing anyway and we should get rid of it asap; people need to just do what makes them comfortable) and I think we should leave it at that.

That being said, if the labels get changed to 'contoured' and 'streamlined' or what have you, I wouldn't care. (Might even be more accurate because male and female sex implies, yanno, sexy bits, which the bases don't have. I approve of Barbie and Ken for this reason.) Because it's just a label. It doesn't change the bases. And it doesn't change what they are. I'm opposed to the entire 'gender' notion, yet if I have to 'pick a gender', I'll oblige and say 'female' because whatever. I'm not gonna request it be changed because it makes me uncomfortable (and it does because 'female gender' has cultural (-coughsexistcough-) connotations which I don't adhere to and so I'm forced to lie) (I'd also be lying if I said male, for the record). But. Whatever. I deal with it. I know in my heart how it is and I don't care what the world thinks.

I'm ranting. All I'm saying is, stop labelling everything. Stop worrying about labels. Especially when, in truth, they have very little effect on things.

I definitely didn't mean to imply the staff is not inclusive - this site is definitely more inclusive than most. Just figured I'd suggest something to make it a little bit more inclusive, is all! (: It's hard to ignore labels as much as I'd like when they're so prevalent, and they do influence the way people think. :(

I'm definitely in support of this idea. Is it necessary? Well, no. The site's not going to fall apart without it. But as some people have already said, it'd make their experiences at least a little bit better, and asking for a little more sensitivity and inclusivity isn't asking for a lot, nor is it the end of the world. I'm honestly really disappointed in some of the attitudes people have had about this. :/

I hope you don't mind me commenting on this and I don't mean any of this in a rude way, but labels are important sometimes! Having a label to put on certain things can really help people, especially those in a minority group, feel less alone and abnormal because there are enough other people out there like them to assign a word to it. Labels aren't universally a bad thing, and saying 'just stop labelling things' is less of a solution than it seems.

This is the dumbest thing i have ever read.

I'm amazed that you can use descriptors as simple as 'male' and 'female'--which are very useful words to describe the sexes--and someone out there will interpret it as the man keeping them down.

Does your base here really influence the way people think about you? Truthfully? I'm looking at your HA now and I can conclude it's female. That's it. It creates no preconceptions in my mind about you as a person, physically or mentally. You could say 'I actually have a penis' and I would be unphased. And I've not seen anyone on the site here make conclusions about a person based on the another's HA base. Maybe I'm just not noticing, but I feel confident in saying that in the context of this site, what your base looks like or what gender you've picked on your profile plays no part in interaction. So it feels to me like this is not something that requires attention. And I'm not saying this to attack your suggestion. I'm saying this to explain to you why I think this suggestion is, in my eyes, unnecessary. That is after all what a suggestion board is for; someone suggests something and other weigh in with their opinions on said suggestion. (Also not saying you think I am attacking, just covering in case someone attempts to lynch me for this, which I have seen happen.)

See, that's not constructive criticism. You haven't added anything except an unsupported opinion and no one will be able to do anything with it. /Why/ is it the dumbest thing you've ever read? Discussions are not just throwing baseless opinions around.

I never said it was 'constructive,' I'm just calling it like I see it. I'm not going to waste time countering nonsense.

I'm just laughing because your talking points are the same meaningless buzzwords I see thrown around on the internet all the time by people who sound like they've spent zero time in the real word. I can't believe people are actually posting in this thread earnestly.

if labels suck, let's just abandon language entirely because it's just a social construct anyway!! and then we'll all live in perfect tumblr harmony or something.

There will still be a majority of people that are a certain way and outlying groups that diverge from that norm. Even if we didn't label them, majorities and minorities would still exist. But I digress.

It would be nice if we could all be "just people," but as it stands, the world just isn't that accepting yet. We still need things like labels, and they do help people in certain capacities. That was the only point I was trying to make with that. ¯(ツ)/¯ Sorry for dragging things a little off-topic.

Personally I really like this. I really don't understand what the big deal is about changing it, and tbh I like the aesthetic of the screenshot edit. Looks good to me. I can't believe some of the people on this thread. Disagreeing is one thing but man. I'm cis and I feel like crying from reading some of this. I can't imagine how horrible other people must feel.

I really, really support this idea.