For most people their body and their gender are aligned, so my point still stands. If someone would reduce my body to just "boobs" in real life, I would slap them in the face.

Base 1 - Base 2 is better in a way, but it's vague :s

I don't think vagueness would really be much of an issue - once you select the option, you can clearly see how it affects your HA so if you select the wrong one you can just be like 'haha no' and choose the other.

But your option would be the removal of all gender-related words tied to the bases, lol. It's okay for you to tell others to basically get over it, but not for people to say it to you?

Oh really? ;) Look back at this thread, haha. Again, nobody cares when it's cis people complaining. They can basically just get over it because social justice! Lol.

But pixels have no gender, and no biological sex. They are just pixels. I don't think the bases need gender terms ascribed to them. Would you say that my avatar is male simply because it has no breasts, even though all the items I've used on it give it an obviously feminine appearance? If I had a baggy jacket on my HA, you wouldn't even be able to tell that it has no breasts. I'm not advocating for the removal of gender terms on Subeta - you can list your gender in your profile and I have no issue with that. I'm sure there are men here who have female HAs, and women who have male HAs. I just don't see why it's so important that the words 'male' or 'female' appear on that page. It doesn't do any harm to remove them.

that's totally reasonable. but the option wouldn't be for the gender of the HA, just the body type. after all, the clothes are all unisex already. and of course it doesn't have to be 'breasts' or 'no breasts' - that was just what i first thought of. it could easily be 'base 1' or 'base 2'.

Base 1 and Base 2 is an awful suggestion because it means nothing. Absolutely nothing. You cannot get more vague than just letters or numbers.

So do you take issue vaguely named wearables that absolutely do not describe how they appear on your HA, such as those marbles that are actually eyes? Until you preview them on an HA, you have no idea how they will affect it.

I think you're too emotionally invested in the terms used on a pet site. The word has already been changed to "sex" in the new wardrobe. I don't see any reason why it should be different aside from that. Sure, you can dress either HA base in any clothing you want. But as far as the site is concerned, your HA will still fall into one of the two sexes available, and they will look a certain way because of what you chose.

Subeta is trying to get more user-friendly. Calling the userbase A/B or 1/2 instead of male/female is not more user-friendly because the changes between both bases are not that important.

Male/Female is not the best because the gender binary really sucks, but it works. It works because biological sex is a concept we have been introduced since youth. A and B? These are letters. They really represent nothing to me.

As for numbers, they're already used. Base 1 is the base with the palest skin color in the wardrobe. Base 2 is the second lightest one.

Breasts/No Breasts is not as great as I thought it was, because there are people like Tobias who are not at ease with having their avatar gender reduced to just boobs. I'm not sure I like it that much either, because after 7 years of using the current system, the change from "gender" to "sex" in the beta wardrobe is good enough for me.

I gave you a solution earlier, you might want to look into it. It's the best way to get the site customised to your liking and ever since I started using it, I'm never looking back. I couldn't imagine living without that kind of browser extentions.

If anyone in this thread is too emotionally invested in the terms used on a pet site, I wouldn't say that it's me. It was just something I figured I'd bring up considering that this site has a non-binary NPC, multiple gender options for pets, and the option to not list your gender on your profile.

There are people like Tobias who are not at ease having their gender reduced to their body parts, and there are people like me who are not comfortable having their body parts gendered.

And all those things are great. But subeta has to be user-friendly (like said), and also has to cater to the majority. Which sucks for those in the miniority, but unfortunately that's how it is. Now while I don't have any problem with choosing a sex for your HA (even though I could see why some would take issue when the wording was gender), I don't think the site should have to do any more than that.

There are options for you to take if you personally are offended by something that doesn't seem to affect many people. Look into those instead of asking the site to cater to you by making things more confusing for others.

[edit] There's an item onsite that I find extremely offensive. Staff is apparently, not willing to change it, so I just deal with it. But I will definitely be using that browser extension to replace the name now (thanks ~)

And I gave you an option to fix that for yourself via browser extensions.

I'm not offended. I wasn't asking for the site to cater specifically to me. You don't have to be so rude. I was simply making a suggestion, and one that I obviously regret making. Don't worry - I won't make this mistake again.

I am aware, and thank you for that.

I'm honestly not trying to be rude, I'm sorry if it came off that way.

No problem. Since you didn't acknowledge it, I wasn't aware if you saw it or not. Happens a lot to skim over some important information in posts. :)

All I've gotten from this thread's replies: [li]it's how it's always been, why should be try to change things even if it doesn't negatively effect me in any way but could make a lot of people who typically remain quiet due to feeling alienated, happy. [li]I'm a binormative dick and don't believe I should respect people's identities if I don't personally relate to them. [li]I'm just gonna ignore how it's been shown, over and over and over, that /physical sexual attributes/ are not binary and are archaic and damaging [li]It effects my delicate sensibilities even though I'll probably only see this option once in a blue moon. [li]Deliberate missgendering of an agender character because [see point 2] [li]It's just a pet site, lets ignore how media makes up a huge part of our life and how even a small change can lead in the right direction to making our society better and more inclusive. [li]WON'T YOU PLEASE THINK OF THE POOR OPPRESSED CIS PEOPLE!!!?!?!111?One!

thank you for making this suggestion, I'm sorry you've had to deal with unfair backlash, it means a lot to some people to know they're not the only one internally cringing or questioning these things.

is my new subetian hero, sorry to interrupt, go on with the arguing.

you've made me feel a whole lot better and said everything i am not bold enough to say so thank you for that. this site is already a few steps ahead of other pet sites and sites in general in terms of inclusiveness gender-wise, but it would have been nice for me to see it go one step further. it's not the end of the world, but it's one small thing that would make me smile to see on a bad day.

THAT SAID, I'd be ok with the bases being called something other than "male" and "female" but so far nothing that has been suggested makes sense.

Make it optional, then

I would never never never use "breasts" as a denominator, and I would want the default to be male/female but I wouldn't mind having an option for people to change it.

Make it an option. Everyone happy. Yes.

But they are body parts that exist in real life. It's not as if changing the sex of the HA changes how many horns they have or the shape of their wings. The message is boobs = female, no boobs = male.