I just tried the new Nori/Mori quest and, quite as anticipated got:

Finished Nori's Quest!

Thank you for bringing me these items! Here is your prize:

187sP AND ...

No quest except for Saggi and Item Hunt gives out sP any longer.

Also: If there is an event, that involves certain items, they get put into the Donation Center or restock a lot more frequently, so hardly any user shops can make a profit from selling said items.

If I was desperately short of money I would take refuge to the Wizard and the split quests.

How should we be able to afford things like a 750 mio Natasha or other Godlies from fellow users or whatever expensive stuff floats around here? Or just a sinple batch of those 5 mio/piece books in the MC package?

How exactly do you see us raising sP in the future?

Sagg still gives out the majority of the sP entered onto the site. You can also play games, which there are a bunch more of on the site now!

You may not be getting pure sP anymore, but the prizes (especially Mori) are pretty great in terms of selling or using for quests (Mori gives lots of purple which is a keyword for Maleria's Quests.) I did Mori last night and made just under 200k from the prizes that sold quickly.

I am a little worried though, with the amount of super rare/rare/exlcusive Maleria items, it seems like they are given out pretty frequently.

Restocking and Games are also helpful though not as good as buying CSC :P

I'll repeat what I said on the Alegarten thread: with the removal of Holiday/Mystery Box and the nerfing of quests, I really feel like I can barely earn anything these days. And I see that games give out a lot more SP, but... I'm probably being stupid here, but if we were going to keep the opportunity for such SP, why couldn't we just keep getting them from quests? :/

Are you still planning to revamp Saggitarius? It's been a while, I'm curious.

I joined Subeta because I didn't have to play games to earn currency... so much for that! :o Seriously (and no offense), if I wanted to play games online I'd go to Neopets where the games are a lot more varied, smoother, and don't give me a raging headache or make me want to vomit before I even get past the start screen. :/

I guess we'd all better go brush up on our drawing skills if we want to actually have sP to accomplish anything around here.

This is a case of us changing something (mystery box) that outside of Algarten people complained about nonstop because it was just a gift wrapping machine. It's now a lot more flexible and interesting.

There is still a ton of sP coming into the system via quests and other parts of the site. This is sP being generated, not from getting stuff bought from your user shop (or doing art ) but from getting sP from various parts of the site.

For reference, the blue is the amount of sP being put into the economy daily, and red is the amount being taken out. As you can see, it never breaks even, and on some days its 3-4x the amount coming into the economy than going out.

My thoughts exactly.

I used the Mystery Box extensively as it was during Alegarten, Fireside, Morostide, Masquerade, Survival, Vesnali and Luminaire. It only became a wrapping machine during the summer, before you decided to phase out the Holiday Shop? which, fine. But I'm reading the Alegarten threads and I see I'm not the only one missing it greatly as it was. And I don't really find it interesting now, because it very rarely gives out anything rare, and even then the rares/super rares seem pretty deflated overall thanks to Maleria + the Library, in my experience.

The graph is great to see, thank you for the reference! But it doesn't answer why we're transferring the SP-earning from quests to games? And I understand that you need to sink SP out of the site, but I bought 4-5 items from the Alegarten Shop with my Saggi earnings today. That was literally it. No savings, no other items.

Which brings me back to my question on the Saggi revamp. You said before that Saggi's rewards would be adjusted. I remember the last attempts were pretty disasterous, but I'm wondering if the promise of a raise there still holds.

Sorry for being a bother ^_^ I'm just really curious. Mostly because next year I'll start work, and all this will make the difference between continuing casually and quitting, to be honest.

RSing is a great way to get money too but I think I recall Keith saying something abouttttt lessening the amount of RSing being done on the site? (maybe that was only in reference to holidays?) Vending and selling your prizes is good to make money too.

but Idk, considering the graph maaaybe the chance of having Sebastian P. take taxes from should be increase for a while? That could help a bit.. no?

I hate that most quests have had the sP making aspect gutted from them. I'm older and have fucked up eyes so I'm not so great for the games on here, that I might also mention is far more time consuming for the amount of sP you make vs. previous options.

Pretty sure it's not having a thing to do with how much sP is being cranked out into the site as much as it is "YOU WANT SP FAST, BUY SOME CSC AND SELL IT' and creating more situations where making sP is made MORE difficult to push people in the direction of "just by csc instead" so the site makes the money.

[edit] Still haven't seen this "MillionS" of sP sag pays out daily, I never even break a mil, maybe 6-800k tops.

Once again, all of the sP in the chart above is coming into the system from quests, games, stocks, etc. All from around the site. This does not include users buying CSC and selling them to other users (as that just means that it changes hand). Tons of sP is coming into the system into users hands daily.

If you're honestly expecting the same amount that you put out to come back in, you're going to have a very long wait. People save for things, and save and save. So punishing the entire site for some of us that have/need to save our money, thanks for that. e_e

Most of what I make comes from games, and I honestly prefer them to quests, though both feel tedious after a while. But with games I don't have to spend sP to make sP and risk not getting back what I put into a quest, and the amount I do get is solid. I don't seem to have trouble making it, and I'm not worried about it becoming harder, either.

We expect users to save. We don't ever expect to reach the same amount of sP going in/out of the system because that'd make the system really stale (and mean that users who currently have billions of sP have more power than they do now).

Mostly, the goal with the quests was to change them to each do something a little bit different, and have one quest be the one where you make the majority of your sP from. If you want to get rid of holiday items you've been collecting (and have very little value) and get some cool graveyard items, Quentin is the quest for you. I know that there is a counter on quests but that doesn't mean we actually expect you to do 20 of them a day. I completely admit that this hasn't really reached the point where I'm happy with this (I think getting a lot more unique items for these quests would make it a lot easier to point to this!) but I also don't think it's been too painful of a change, and we made it so that Maleria/Cursed quests still give out sP until its all figured out.

I just think that we've gotten into this mindset that is really dangerous, which is that everyone should be able to get all of the items from every event/quest/plot/day/release. That just isn't how games are meant to be. If that were the case we'd be arvee and instead of having mechanics and games we'd just let you have all of the items and dress up your avatars. That isn't what Subeta is.

Reading through the thread, I feel a better question might be - is taking most sP earning potential out of the quests the only way to equalize the sP difference? I also agree with Comet, I don't think it's ever going to be equalized. People aren't going to spend everything they earn, if only to be able to buy things such as sP sink Alegarten event store items.

It also seems clear that the influx of sP isn't necessarily confined to quests, so I'm unsure why quests are being pointed out as the Thing That Will Fix The Economy when revamped. What comes to mind are some of the games like Tubular Tiles and Caliph's Tomb that hand out a pretty sizable chunk of sP per game.

If the goal is to reduce sP coming into the system, why create lots of new games with - let's be honest - pretty generous payouts? That's adding as much sP to the system every day as a round of quests. Hopefully that's being taken into account when that total sP number is held up as a reason for quest revamps. To say it another way - I hope that revamping quests isn't the only tweak being implemented, because if quests start not paying out, people might start playing more games, and the sP coming into the system might not actually be reduced and nothing is solved.

I don't understand what you mean, how gaining items for other quets from quests, which will cost me money, should help in raising the money needed. That's only shifting around items from one quest to another with no cash turnout and eventually is no incentive to do any of the quests at all.

Also purchasing CSC with real money and selling them (which I have hardly ever done, only like twice in times of utter desperation - I still consider it cheating ) will no longer work out, because NOBODY will have money anymore.

I didn't know, we were turning into Neo now, being forced to play endless hours of games in order to make money, which will never buy us the items we desire. While of course it's great there are more games for those, who still like to play them. Quite honestly, I'd rather play one of my many, many ages old thanks to Subeta taking up all my spare time unopened PC Games instead.

But I have already dropped my obsession with books and refused to buy the missing plot and pirate ones for 40 - 50 mio sp / piece, which has so so many times rendered me bankrupt in the past, esp., as I have wasted milliards on the last book drive. The only consolation is the achievement weapon, which is probably pretty useless, but at least something. Also the site has begun to cost me a fortune in real money, so I'll most likely after collecting them for so many years drop the books from the Collections and the extra battle challenger copies, providing they will actually continue to be brought along the next year.

I'm cutting down, I have become so tired of the constant stress and race, but it's not going to help me, because it won't result any spare money then, because not a lot of income.

Why even bother keeping quests if you're going to give shit payouts? That will only equate to more people NOT wanting to do quests, so then my items in my shop won't sell either, and that method of income also suffers. It has a bit of a waterfall effect that has fucked up my entire way of making money around here and I don't have hours in my day for games.

And while I realize hand-to-hand won't be accounted on that graph, my point i'm making is that you're obviously making the site more difficult to push the option of just BUYING CSC to buy sP from other users rather than bother with making it the LONG TIME CONSUMING WAY.

Wait a minute, did you just say that every user shouldn't be able to get every item available on site? Why would you even want to do that to your users?

I really don't know where you've got the idea that we're pushing people to buy CSC from other users. Again, that sP is coming from somewhere. The sP that you are using to buy CSC (or the other way around) has come from games or quests or some part of the site. We are still providing the sP through those parts of the site that people are using to buy CSC. And we'd obviously rather users buy CSC from the cash shop than from other users :)

And yes, that's what I said. This is a game. Games require investing time and energy into getting the "top tier" things. We have that with battling. It takes a long time to get your pet into tier 12. There isn't a shortcut. The same with items from events. Logging on for five minutes a day doesn't entitle you to all of the items from a shop. I understand that is all the time that some users can dedicate to the site, and it's awesome that they're able to spend that much time on the site but it also means that they will be at a disadvantage and probably wont be able to get all of the items / achievements that they want.

I got the idea based on your actions on this site. Reducing payouts on quests to the point of nobody wanting to do them pushes finding another way. Items not selling in my shop means find another way. Games take more hours and time than I have available, find another way.

pretty soon all roads lead to someone buying csc from you to sell to another user cause they want/need sP and all the other roads to that goal are long and tedious thanks to your doing, so the easiest solution you leave us with is to reach for our wallets. is it really that hard for you to see that you're manifesting this situation for us?

You get a bunch of prizes from a quest, put them in your shop and sell them for a profit. Or just them during questing. You're making money, there is just another step (which I know sucks.) Handing out items keeps the site from generating as much new sP into the system.

I made a list for myself, because like you I used to quest almost exclusively. Games are faster and tend to be more profitable.

Cybill Sledding Score: 6,667 = 10,000 sP (100k in less than 10 minutes) * this one is tough on the eyes

Caliphs Tomb Score: Win = 20,000 sP (each game takes less than 1 minute) 200k Tubular Tiles Score: Win = 10,000 sP (100k in about 20 minutes) Memory Game Score: Depends on Speed/# of Matches (I get around 16 - 20 flips and make about 200k+)

Divine Discs Score: Win = 1k - 10k sP Shell Spotter Up to 50k per 24hours? ^ I do this when I'm bored and reading the forum

I can understand not liking games, but I think you're overestimating how long they take. Matal's Jewels is another one (I never play) but it worth quite a bit.

I'd point to the chart again. Masses of sP going into the system every day, reaching into 100 billion sP.

That includes all of the inactive accounts that have 5,000/10,000sP sitting there (obviously it also includes the users with billions of sP). The average active user has far more than 9 million sP. There is still tons of opportunity and sP going into the system. I'd like to reiterate that Sagg still gives a healthy payout and it's possible to make millions from him daily.

And as for the number of users doing quests, they are still being done en masse. We're watching a lot of quests completed daily at a comparable number to the number of quests completed this time last year. We removed a lot of the sP because, by basic economics, it was causing inflation and a lot of problems (which in turn means that we have to charge hundreds of thousands for event items).