What a fun mix of revamps to start off the new year!
Note: Only the overlay for the Woodcutters Wolf Tooth has been updated.
Comments have been disabled for this news post due to users ignoring staffs warnings. Remember, it's okay not to like every revamp the site puts out. It's not okay to attack, belittle, or harass other users.
Where did you get your PhD in psychology? Some people would say it's just as unhealthy for someone my age to sleep with and be attached to a stuffed animal.
I'm not personally as attached to most of the items on this site as I am to Tessa, but I respect the feelings of people who are. You clearly don't, and nobody who doesn't respect people's feelings should ever be in a position to make diagnoses about whether or not someone's mental state is healthy or not based on a conversation on the internet. It's rude and condescending.
Please stop practising psychiatry without a licence and acting like you give a crap about my mental health or feelings. That's called "concern trolling" for a reason.
Now let's address the thing you really care about.
The facts are, no other avatar site of which I am aware does this.
Especially not with items that folks paid real money for.
Gaia Online certainly doesn't do this. Poupee Girl didn't do this. Everywhere else, anything you buy--especially if you paid for it with real money (such as CSC or Gaia Cash)--stays the same. "Outdated" items are permanently retired in the site's shops instead, so that new users see new items in the shop, and if they later want something old, they have to hunt for it.
If you are genuinely concerned about user retention, consider this: people who are new to the site, or considering joining the site, just don't buy things that they don't like. Outdated items can be permanently retired, meaning that they are removed from the shops, without vandalising people's saved avatars and collections that they already have. In fact, a lot of revamped items have been retired items, so there was absolutely no reason to change them from your stated POV. Old costume trunks could be taken down and replaced in the shop with new ones.
Then, any new person who actually wants the older items can go and hunt them down in user shops.
I joined the site in 2017, and all the retired items I own were things I decided I liked enough to hunt down. All the "outdated" items I own are things that I actually like.
What would have driven me off as a new user would be if something like this had happened before I'd been on the site long enough to get invested in it.
I switched from playing and releasing usermades on Gaia Online to Subeta largely because of the expense, and because I had friends IRL who were here. If, in my first 2 months, I had found out that items in my wardrobe would disappear, be completely destroyed so that I could never find them again, and replaced with something I might not like--even if I had paid for them with CSC--I would probably have quit the site immediately. G-d knows I had to stop playing Gaia after they started putting all the good stuff in the cash shop in chance items so that you had to spend 5-10x the price of the item you wanted to get it, but at least once you had that item, you had it forever.
As it is, I'm rapidly becoming largely invested in CWs, and wish they would permit CW facial features to be sold, because I'm very attached to my avatar's face. This is partly because CWs allow you to have items that staff might never have chosen to make, but it's also because CWs do not get "revamped".
I'm not mocking you, I'm outright saying your attitude is unhealthy and is in no way something anyone should build a site around. It's bad business and bad community practice. That carries no malice whatsoever. The site should not keep old art that is not up to the current standards, especially in this case when the front legs of the woodcutter's tooth were basically mutated chicken drumsticks and the pendant looked like it was a decade older than it was from the day it was released.
Personally, (to address another point that was brought up) I think nearly ALL old cs stuff should be revamped since it is still available for sale and some of it is completely unusable. I don't think there's any individual item on subeta that's more important than the longevity of the site. I don't think there's any USER that's more important. Let's look at users online right now of FR vs Subeta: it's a very quiet morning on fr, only 2504 at the moment. Typically it's close to 3000 without any lag whatsoever. Subeta has 484 users online right now - the standard activity - and the site was crashing over and over yesterday at a similar number. Remember the Super User achievement? That's impossible in the current state. These reactions to revamps discourage other changes that would benefit the site. They discourage new users. They discourage CURRENT users. Subeta legitimately needs change on every level. When I mention Subeta on any other petsite or avatar community, the response is "oh I thought that site died a long time ago." This is from young users who participate in growing and thriving communities on their sites, sites which are making a PROFIT. Profits are required for improvement. I don't know what other way to put this: revamps are good for the site even when they're disliked by some old users because those users are stagnant; profit and recruiting has long since leveled out from those of us passionately arguing. We are not the market. We are the old people shopping at the same store because we're used to it and we have nothing new to offer unless we change.
Wow, there's ...a lot going on here.
Artists - is there any way old art can be created as a new site item if there are many many users who still like and would love to have that wearable? For example, the new pendant art is more detailed than the old art and is nice for its own reasons, but I too was attached to the old art because it looked similar to my real life dog. When revamps occur that make a huge difference to the item, is there potential for it to be transformable or for there to be two items?
Ok, because I'm genuinely curious now: as not a subeta type art artist, but as someone who does put out work that gets commented upon and critiqued, are things like "thanks i hate it. hardly even looks like [what it was supposed to be] anymore" bashing the creator? Cause I get so much worse, and I just account for personal taste and subjectivity. Like, comments on your work are comments on your /work/, not on you. It might not be stated in the most nice or helpful way, but I personally would definitely not be offended. Unless people are actually saying things like "I don't like this so therefore I don't like you or the artist is [personal attacks]" I would be fine with a comment like that, even if I fully disagreed with their opinion or thought they didn't get what I was going for at all or whatever.
Maybe it's a cultural difference or something, or maybe harsher comments have been deleted that I haven't seen, but I guess it's just weird to me that hating something and stating that is considered the height of rudeness on here.
Weedmaps is a thing, you know.
While there's always bound to be people that dislike the revamps of old items I really wish people would be more mindful of what they say. Although it can be frustrating or disappointing for things to change in no way is it okay to be hurtful and lash out at others regardless how you feel. It's fine to dislike something but try to remember that there's also a person on the other side of the screen that may be hurt by your words. Being an artist isn't easy, especially when your artwork is posted publicly for everyone to judge, and I'm not saying that you have to shower them with praise either but keep in mind that harsh words are like porcupine quills; they stick in and don't let go. Sometimes it's better to step away and take a breather or just not say anything at all. Just putting this out there.
that sounds like a very long version of what I said and I think we are in vehement agreement :D
The Mysterious Pendant wolf does look... odd, I'll agree with the people saying that. The legs and paws look stubby and too thick. I'm not sure I like how the face has been darkened so much, either - like I get that it's probably to show off the luminous eyes but still.
Yeah, it was an item in desperate need of an update, that's not up for debate, I'm just not sure about some of the updated details is all.
The wolves look a million times better. Y'all are wild (literally for some, lol)
We're entering a whole 'nother can of worms in regards to digital goods vs physical goods, and what it means to own something. Believe me, that topic is its own legal disaster with regards to video games and such. The laws haven't caught up still. Most anyone who owns a digital copy of something, anything, should agree that they do own it, at least in some capacity. I own many physical video games, but own a few digital releases because a.) no physical copy was ever released and b.) the files I played on those digital releases of the games DO COUNT. If someone were to delete my save file on my Nintendogs + cats game, whether it was a physical copy of the game or the digital retail version I downloaded to my 3DS' SD card, I'd be crushed. If i lost any of my Pokemon nuzlocke teams somehow, I'd be extremely heartbroken. If i lost either my Neopets account, my youtube account, or this account, I'd lose interest because "it'll never be the same as before, this new one doesn't share the identity I've built over time".
Pixels or not, it's what you value them at that matters. Why else are any of us playing here if we didn't feel some sort of connection to our "just pixels"? Obviously they aren't just that.
nicely put. i can agree to that.
Nobody's saying revamps should be limited though?
Whether I'm going to use the item or not doesn't matter. I remember owning the wolf pendant long ago though. The idea that "only those who use X item or own Y pet can complain" isn't logical discourse. And yes, I'm aware that someone, somewhere will always hate something. I'll always hate that TLK remake and praise to ends of the earth why the original was just fine. Disney doesn't give a shit, they're a bunch of corporate moneygrubbers. And yeah, there's going to be a small amount of users who hate the revamps. Doesn't mean they're not being listened to or that they should be banned from saying they're disappointed in something. Even if the way they go about it isn't mature. Passion and frustration are two sides of the same coin. Same here, not calling you out specifically on earlier actions. Just a nice debate. We're on the same page, just in different places on said same page.
Being legally entitled to do something doesn't make it okay, and even if someone does have an "unhealthy" attachment to something, being mocked for it will probably make them stick to their guns even more. Personally I don't have a psychiatric degree so I'm not going to try and judge who's healthy here and who isn't. Making fun of people for having feelings is still despicable.
That's a very good example. The revamp I'm most unhappy about was when they changed all the Keith plushies to completely different characters. I ended up with a plushie of a character that I really truly dislike in my collection, and because it's a plushie I can't delete it. They could've just taken Keith's name off those plushies and released the new ones as new plushies.
"It might be entitled to believe that every new item produced should be something you like.
It's not entitled at all to think something you possess and use, let alone something you bought in the cash shop, should stay the way it is, unless an option's provided to keep the original."
i 100% agree with you on this. well said.
all of this, including even my input, is completely and 100% subjective. 100% of people will never like something collectively. maybe 99.9%, but not 100%. that's life. like, people who loved disney's version of the lion king either hated or loved the new one, and no amount of revamping will hit a full consensus. even if the artists are receiving "criticism" and "input", there will always be somebody who hates it. you can't tell an artist to take something into consideration when not every single person is going to agree. it's unrealistic.
i know you're not calling ME out, but i personally did not tell anyone to shut up. i'm not saying that someone who voices their negative opinion should not have a voice, but people are requesting unrealistic things and you're (not specific to you) just going to keep banging your head against a wall.
and iirc, you mentioned in a previous board about how stupid the HA system is so why does it matter if the item doesn't look good to you? will you even use it?
so what if it's a nontangible item? It's still YOUR item and someone took it away from you and replaced it without your consent. Why should you have to shut up and like that because it's non-physical? that doesn't make any sense.
90% of the talking-down and arrogance I've seen in this argument has been from the people who think that everyone who doesn't like having their stuff replaced without warning or consent should shut up and be grateful, not the people who don't like the revamps.
It might be entitled to believe that every new item produced should be something you like.
It's not entitled at all to think something you possess and use, let alone something you bought in the cash shop, should stay the way it is, unless an option's provided to keep the original.
Yes, I've had people throw out my old things and not bother to replace them or be sorry. But you know what? Not one of us actually owns a single thing on subeta. We own nothing. It's pixels. You could lose internet access and lose it forever. The money and time you invest does not grant you any physical item. It's less tangible than any other good and that investment is for your own enjoyment. These pieces of art are not a possession we own, they're not an object we're entitled to, they're a community resource that is provided to us via a free game and the ACTUAL owner is the owner of the site. You can use it at their discretion. They have and will continue to straight up remove items if they'd like.
Feedback is important, but one old user's opinion is not and will never be more important than the market of millions of potential new and returning users. Old art should not ever be kept because of nostalgia. If you love the old art, save it. Layer it manually in gimp onto avatars you feature on your profile or in forum threads you start for that. "Pre-vamped Avatars Club!" could be a really cool community thing you start. But saying revamps should be limited because you're emotionally attached to pixels you will never ever ever possess? I can't support it or get behind it. I think it's a unhealthy mindset.
You know that's not what I meant, and I never suggested that staff artists sit there and ask everyone for every single thing. Revamps have to happen, plain and simple. And yes, the ones who are upset do matter, as much as those who do like it. Never said one was more important than the other, that's YOU implying that. Criticism makes the artist strive to do better. Telling anyone, who criticizes or just wants to lament something, to shut up is not productive.
you know about an hour after I posted it I remembered that I made these avatars and like them for morostide, so I stand corrected. The cutouts are useful for negative space avatar shenanigans.
Outfit Not Found Bill 190211by Valiska
That said, I don't think we need leg cutouts on companion items and tails any more.
???? so are you saying that the artist should consult with every single member of subeta before they revamp an item? that seems unnecessary and frankly quite laborious. you're suggesting that people who are upset about it matter more than the people who like it.
I agree with Valiska. Anyone that remembers the great Rreign debacle would understand why these wolves are under such scrutiny. For those unaware, the current Rreign was a revamp from long ago, changing drastically what it used to look like (changed from Eastern dragon origin to Western dragon). It caused so much backlash to the point that the Mahar was created as a compromise. There were a couple of other pet revamps that also came under fire, but the Rreign sticks out to me because it basically did become a completely different pet. Even though it was just pixels, it destroyed many Rreign owners. I think that's what Valiska is trying to get at. These pixels have become less of that and more sentimental. Saying they're "just pixels" is such a lame argument that I'm tired of seeing being used a counterpoint.
I think the artist of these wolf wearables revamps needs to be considerate in the future when doing revamps of old art. When your revamp basically could be sold as a new item instead of an updated look to the original's foundation, it's not a revamp anymore.
your point is clear but you're comparing a real life, tangible object to a bunch of colorful pixels on the screen. people are absolutely allowed to have their opinions just like other people are allowed to disagree. having a different opinion isn't the problem here; it's the way they are presented.
arrogance, talking down, etc. is annoying, not the opinion itself.
OK, people, I'm going to try one last time to get my point across.
Did you ever have a ratty old garment that you really loved, and then one day you came home to find out that your parent or your partner had disposed of it and you could never get it back, and thought you would be grateful that they replaced it with something nice? Were you happy about that?
I collect thylacine plushies and figures. I would love it if someone gave me a brand new, hyper-realistic thylacine plush.
But the oldest thylacine plush I have was the Build-A-Bear "Tasmanian Wolf" and I sleep with her every night. Tessa's ear furnishings are matted and her stripes have been almost completely rubbed off. She looks like a stuffed animal that has been loved for a long time. I understand why you would not want to buy an old, out of date, deeply loved item if you didn't already have it.
But if someone took Tessa out of my bed and destroyed her, then gave me a brand new, hyper-realistic thylacine plush and said I should be grateful for the replacement, I would want to punch them in the freaking nose.
And while the "R" word is not OK, I don't have any idea what I might say to someone who decided to make fun of me for being unhappy about it or called me ungrateful.
Revamps should be limited to updating the art style and getting rid of things like avatar cutouts that make layering difficult now that we have the option to obscure limbs in other ways.
The reason the comments section always explodes when there are revamps is that the people who didn't like the old item and love the new version think it's okay to make fun of the people who did like it and are upset that it has been replaced. It's not. That's actually a dick move.
You're not defending the artists, you're making fun of someone who had something they liked and used taken away from them because someone else thought it was ratty and decided to replace it rather than just providing the option to get something new.
I'm very excited too see especially some original wolf themed items getting a fresh look. I don't know which wolf revamp I personally like more. I honestly wasn't interested in Mysterious Pendant before the revamp (actually didn't even know it was supposed to be a wolf item whoops ;n;''), but now it looks freaking cool! Especially the eyes, so piercing and frigid! Also very into the Woodcutters wolf's more reddish coloring and the facial expression. I like seeing some smug wolves haha, which I also think is quite fitting to the original Red Riding Hood theme of the set. Reddish colors are also usually more uncommon with wolf themed items and happen to be my personal fave, so I'm very excited about those. Also appreciate bringing new variation to wolf themed items so tysm. <3
Having revamped items be transformable between their old and new forms is a very good idea, I think. Let us all have more choices! :P
Not really a fan of the Mysterious Pendant's revamp, but I never wore it and just got it for one of my pets' TCs.
That Wolfcutter Tooth though... I never wore the original one (trying to find an outfit to fit with it was pretty hard), but I'll definitely be wearing the new one, once I buy it, that is!
Also, I'd love to have seen what would've done to update the Pendant, given what I've heard that they've done a lot of Custom Wearables that involve wolves.
so much unnecessary hate towards the revamped wolves by some people here...please don't be rude...
We're on a site where disabled users get crapped on in Holiday events with minigames that could trigger seizures (and you get penalized if you can't complete the game), homophobes and transphobes don't eat an insta-ban for being homophobic and transphobic, users can harass other users for things like free items or under-the-table usershop discounts for MONTHS before they get banned, the servers don't work right half the time...
...but the big complaint is gonna be that the wolf doesn't look wolflike enough to a bunch of people who can't lift a finger to do the revamp art themselves, let alone having zero talent for that sort of thing?
The entitlement is STRONG here today on Subeta dot com lmfao. At least they finally banned the chick who wouldn't stop b**ching that Strawberry Tigrean Ice Cream Cone wasn't revamped yet.
The gryphon heart looked fine, now it looks like a gummy candy.
I just want the foo dog fur to finally be wearable ;_;
I like most of the revamps though. Some I think were changed a bit too much colour-wise, and something is really off with the pendant wolf's paws, but overall they look good.
The wolf tooth seems more like a completely new item rather than a revamp,the color and expression are so very different. I like the suggestions about it being a transition item or maybe even just a new wolf wearable.
LMAO i smoke enough for all of us, trust me
bruh thank god i got dat succubus wig before the revamp. 25 mil saved, cha-ching~
If I were the revamp artist my heart would be a little crushed by this comment section. I for one dig the revamps, the old ones looked dated AF and were not something I wanted in my wardrobe. Now I may grab one or two things.
I actually like a lot of these revamps. I AM a little sad that the tattoos aren't black anymore but i do like that theyre cleaner and less chunky
Ah, the Incubus and Succubus sets. I remember buying them when they came out. I haven't used them in ages. I try not to get attached to things on here anymore because of revamping. Though it still gets me sometimes.
The set looks nice in parts and others I like the old better. The Modesty Top and Apparatus lost the mesh part and the Apparatus lost the top boob cover part on the female overlay (I loved that part and actually wished the male version had it as well). I liked the old tattoos that were just black. I liked the old Flirtations, the new version looks more like gel hearts and cartoony.
For the wolves I just have to say, the pendant looks odd with the glowing eyes that don't quite look like they line up (but that might be me) and that one front foot looks a bit bubbly. The tooth just has that shading I'm not fond of. It looks like a wood caving now but the old one had that look as well just not as strong.
I didn't realize the amount of comments before I posted mine, so okay, realizing now I'm not the only one disappointed. I honestly just wish we could have had two separate items or like someone did suggest, the option to transform, that would have been nice. The new set is nice, just not to replace the old art for this item.
I'm probably the only one that's actually really disappointed about the Woodcutters Wolf Tooth, as I loved it before and I'm going to miss the original art, and the new games away from its charm, it looks like a completely different wolf now :( might be taking it out of my wardrobe.. Though the new art is well done I wish it had just been an entirely new item instead because it could have been it looks like a new item. This is one of those instances in which I wish the revamp stayed true to the idea and form and even coloring of the original and actually just improved it not entirely changed it. Kind of bummed out.
just wanted to say how much I like your edit of the pendant
Also someone suggested having a "transform item" option to the new art and although I can see why that might not be the ideal it sure would avoid people getting upset. If you used something wearable for literally years because you enjoyed it, it would be nice to continue having the ability to use it. Especially if the newer item is a significant departure in the character of the item.
I prefer the colour, demeanor and exression of the old Wolf Tooth. The art was perfectly "up to date". The was no need at all to revamp anything but cover the curouts!!!
As for the pendant - I am not a fan of either. If anything, the new one should have been mase into a live version of the old cartoonish one. Posture and regal expression.
People are complaining about the revamps of the wolves, but I remember when the mysterious pendant came out and honey it was bad THEN. The old version of it looked like my old DA work and the woodcutter's wolf tooth's entire front legs had a serious case of chicken drumstick syndrome. Out with the old, in with the new. Subeta - in my personal opinion and compared to other sites both operating and up and coming - is not doing so hot, even during beloved holidays. People need to accept some changes or the game they've loved for so long, for some of us well over a decade... it's not going to be here. This type of bad behavior drives away any of the new blood we so desperately need to KEEP if we want to keep our investment. It's all a choice that comes down to each person: will you create a new community that changes the game from survival to thriving? Or will entitlement - of ANY kind - keep us barreling down the path just being one of the worst entries on ED from a decade long gone?
I was just excited that now we have another kind of hammer to wear!
| [preview=hammer] | [preview=claw hammer] | [preview=rock sculpting hammer] | [preview=Plastic Tent Peg Mallet] |
https://tenor.com/view/the-witcher-netflix-geralt-and-jaskier-geralt-jaskier-gif-15904288">me @ most people here
That being said, I’m mostly meh about the revamps but that’s because I’ve never really used these items. Thanks for updating them though!
That being said, that white wolf ..... looks like it’s about to curse me ngl, that face looks just a tad too possessed for my liking
Also: y’all need to learn not to make fun of people stating their opinion, even if you don’t agree with them. Respect each other holy shit - “get your eyes checked”? Overdone sarcasm and passive aggressive statements, calling people jackass and for them to shut up? Saying woof and spamming someone’s inbox with woof? I hope you realize that you will be treated with the respect you show others. And that’s coming from me who’s well acquainted with a bunch of y’all posting here. Cmon guys, be better.
i wish the incubus flirtations weren’t revamped. the hearts look bulky and childish now :(
Okay, so, it's great that we can now layer the woodcutters wolf but my god, that revamp is completely jarring when you're used to the original. It also looks less like a wolf and more of a huskey cross; why was it changed so much? As for the white wolf of the pendant: IDK, something about the legs position seems off though that could be due to coloring? The out-turned leg looks smooth/detached with the shading how it is. Had the shadow gone down the leg a smidge it wouldn't look so removed though why it's standing that way is a bit odd to me. The loss of the wearable pendant is also a bit sad; could we make this a transforming item so we can have the option of wolf/pendant/both?
As for the other revamps, they're alright. I'm a bit miffed that the succubus panty wings got smaller while the males was enhanced but the wigs are decent, as are the new tattoos, etc. I like the wigs. I kind of wish foo dog fur and the rest of the ingredients were wearable and either made you look like the creatures they're from or gave you complimentary a companion.
right? you can tell that the people vociferously "defending the artists" are either just being mean because they can or have never posted anything to sites like DeviantArt, or in my case fanfiction.net, AO3, et cetera.
Artists and writers really do learn to tolerate "I hate it" comments.
The comments that upset me the most are often the detailed ones, because rather than being constructive criticism about how I could accomplish what I intended to do better, they're almost always comments about the other person wanting me to produce specific things that they want instead of the things I want, and sometimes they're rude implications about my personality, mental health or politics just because I wrote something somebody else disapproves of. "I hate it" is nothing compared to, "I only want to read slash, if you're going to write a long fic series, stop putting het couples in it so that I can read the whole thing without being grossed out" or "why is Christianity never a positive force in your plotlines, are you some kind of Satanist?" or "you wrote about someone who is seventeen and a half having sex with their 18 year old SO, therefore you must be a pedophile!" (Paraphrased, but actual messages people have sent me about fanfics.)
It's almost like all these people who claim to be defending an artist's feelings are really concern trolling. What a concept...eh?