hhhh I am. Extremely sleep-deprived. Apologies if I ramble or don't make myself quite clear in places!

I'm still not 100% sold on the title of this thread, so I recommend that you read through this entire post just to get a good idea of what I'm trying to say. Yes, the point of this thread is that I want more pet slots! I am, however, aware that pets are quite a strain on the site - therefore, I want to do some public brainstorming and see if we can come up with a solution, or compromise, that will satisfy everyone.

I have two main ideas.

: It is to my understanding that the "strain" pets put on the site happens particularly when pet data is called up for a list - ie, populating the list of pets that can read a particular book, the "add to X's treasure" list, and so on (among other things, I assume). What if, however, we were allowed to have pets that would not show up on these lists? What if there was a "storage", per se, for pets that we still technically own, but cannot interact with otherwise unless they are moved into a main pet slot? If you've ever played Flight Rising, you'll know that I'm heavily inspired by their "den" idea - you can still look at the profiles of each dragon in the den, and they still show up on your user profile somewhere, but if you want to interact with that dragon at all, you have to move it out of the "den" and into a main slot. If we applied that idea to pets here on Subeta, then we could potentially "freeze" pets by putting them into a storage space, where you would not be able to do any of the following with them:

-Take away/give/rename minion -Rename pet/swap names with another pet -Abandon pet -Train pet -Put pet into the resort -Play, feed, or read to pet -Use potion(s) on pet -Edit profile -Add/remove from treasure chest -More options I'm probably not remembering

Thus, we'd theoretically be able to own as many pets as we'd like without worrying about site strain, because pets in storage would not show up on any lists (aside from the general storage list, anyway). Note: I am not a programmer. I don't know what the consequences would be if the site had to store, say, 100 pets per person in their individual pet storage units, each complete with pet profiles, full treasure chests, custom overlays, etc. I'll be honest, though... I don't think this is a scenario that will happen often. This system would be put in place primarily to benefit the few... passionate pet people on this site who have maxed out their pet slots, whether they actually do anything with all of their pets or not. And I bet people who haven't maxed out their pet slots could take advantage of pet storage, too! But I'm primarily bringing this up to offer a solution to the "we want more pet slots" crowd (of which I am shamelessly apart of). I'd be okay if we never had any more new "regular" pet slots (since the max is like, 130ish right now), if we could just implement a system where we could unlock/buy "storage" pet slots so we can squirrel away pets that we're not working on.

I realize that implementing this would probably require significant work, so I don't expect to see anything like this anytime soon. IN THE MEANTIME, however... let's move onto my next idea.

: UNTIL a dedicated pet storage space is created... it would be nice to have access to SOME new pet slots... These new slots and the pets created to fill them would strain the site, of course, so I'm proposing a system that would make that slight extra strain worth it. Currently, there are four subscription tiers for Subeta, with the most expensive plan costing $15 per month. But what if we added a tier above that? Say... a $50 per month tier? And the reward for being subscribed to this plan could be one or two new pet slots per month? (Probably just one slot, two seems excessive.) But Soren... you say... Who would be crazy enough to spend $50 per month on Subeta, just for new pet slots? Look at me. Look me in the eyes. I would spend $50 per month on this site. I am a little freak who can't get enough pet slots, and I know for a FACT that I am not alone. Yes, these new pet slots might strain the site!! I know!! But wouldn't it be WORTH IT, if Subeta could get that kind of money out of me (and other players)? Okay, I don't actually know if the site strain would be worth the extra money earned, but I can dream. Let me dream.

I'm running out of things to say and I am so, so tired. Hopefully, maybe we could get some input from staff to see if either of these ideas are even possible? What do y'all think? Don't come here and tell me we don't need any more pet slots please I'm already aware that this is asking for a lot, we're all talking hypotheticals here anyway so JUST LET ME DREAM OKAY.

I'm looking forward to reading your input, everyone! Thanks so much for stopping by. :D

I made this suggestion just for u guys

and I talked about this on Discord for quite a while tonight, haha.

I know there's the "pet farm" idea that was talked about on Project Kumos and that it's along the lines of what Soren was suggesting as a storage area for extra pets, but I'm not incredibly clear on the status of that?

I think largely I'd just like to know if it's truly not viable for the pet slot cap to be upped at all. Like, I get it if that's the case! I know our huge amounts of pets are a big strain on the servers. But sometimes I think about how much I would spend on another pet slot, and I wonder if those theoretical extra slots on the accounts that paid for the higher tier subscription cost, or that bought some kind of fancy expensive pet slot you could get in addition to the cheaper ones, or whatever potential upgrade it could be, would definitely be such a strain on the servers that it wouldn't be worth the money that the slots brought the site.

I have 127 pet slots and I always want more. I know that's incredibly extra, but I just love having pets on here. I have a list of dozens of pets that I'd consider owning in addition to the 127 I have already. I really, really like this site's pet art. Getting my loyalty box is always one of the highlights of my year.

Subeta has been my creative outlet for 17 years. Nowadays I exclusively create characters by representing them with pets on here. I'm not always the most active but this site has a great deal of meaning to me. I don't use the wardrobe very often at all, which means that, since I'm full on pet slots, I generally only spend CSC on items I need for pet treasure chests.

I always stay subscribed to Subeta even when I'm going through a period of inactivity, because I want to help support the site in some way, but outside of my subscription, I have a hard time justifying the idea of throwing money at the site if I'm not actively planning to purchase something with CSC. I would very gladly buy more CSC if I had more reason to.

I've bought pet slots at much more expensive CSC prizes than they are now. I remember the days of the Mystical plushies although my memory isn't great and I was a teenager back then so I'm not 100% sure I recall the prices exactly. I would gladly spend $60 again on one pet slot, or $100 on two, and I can say with absolutely certainty that I would immediately drop hundreds of dollars on slots if given the opportunity. A $50/month subscription that gave me more pet slots would be no question whatsoever.

But would those subscription-based pet slots go away if you had to cancel or downsize your plan? Ala like Premium's 4 pet slots on Neo?

I think it would work like the old gold account did? We could fill 10 slots when we had a GA active but once the GA expired any vacant slots above slot could not be filled (until we activated a new GA). I think I understand the other question, which is if someone stops using the feature the site now has the strain of the additional pets but not the income of the subscription. Perhaps a compromise would be that at this subscription level the only options were a 6m and a 12m plan. So $50 a month for the duration of the plan and 1 pet slot per month? At the end of 6m the site would have the strain of 6 more pets, but would also have gained $300. Realistically, I don't think many people would take the offer, so the total strain probably wouldn't be huge. Understandably, it likely comes down to the finances - how much strain is one additional pet on the site, how much does that come to in cost, how long would $50 pay for the strain, what is our timeline on Kumos and the "homebase" where pets are not populated on site lists becoming active? I think if the benefit exceeds the cost for the site it's absolutely worth trying! Especially since there's a limited number of folks who would take up the offer.

Hard support for this idea (as long as it won't tank the site). I am super pumped for the idea of the homebase on Kumos and hope it means unlimited (or a crazy cap) on pets and less expense to expand our families. In the meantime, I think those who have poured so much time and money into the site maxing out their families are definitely deserving of some rewards / appreciation.

I think if there are concerns, it could be worth the site offering a "one time" (for now) opportunity to get 1 pet slot for $35 - $50 ($35 is the difference between the subscription levels). This could show how many folks would actually be taking up the deal and could "test the waters" on adding a few new pets to the site. It could even be only accessible if you already have X # of pets to limit possible use.

A big part of why I am so in support of this is because maxing out pet slots is a huge investment. Community members who have been here that long and poured that much into the site should be invested in / rewarded for their loyalty and support.

The total number of pets on the site grows when new users join or when current users make brand new pets. So understandably, they can't max out the bandwidth because then no one else could join or make more pets. At the same time, what is the realistic strain of 1 pet per month? I think the financial gain is probably well worth it for the site. (fingers crossed)

TL;DR Someone please slide a note across the desk with a number on it so we know how much additional income the site needs to be able to support and having more pets, because they deserve it <3

The issue I have with this being tied to subscriptions also brings out a big problem, and it's pretty much different currencies. 50$ is a good chunk of change in USD, and now, I'm mentally weeping for people that are outside the USA and whose currency is worth less. In Canada, 50$ is 71.36$ right now, and our economy is not doing so great.

What's so great with the Cash Shop pet slots is that CSC is easily attainable by playing the site, thanks to Morty Cards and the Bathhouse, and we don't have that freedom with subscriptions. I also think that 50$ might be a little overtuned and is sending the wrong message, personally. We already have to fight with the narrative that our pets are the things breaking the server and that we're greedy to have so many but...it's a pet site.

I would love more pet slots. But I don't think that tying more pet slots to an option that has no in-game way to attain is that great of an idea.

I think it would be better to wait for Keith to build up Kumos. There is the homestead he was working on and I think he's still passionate about it, but he could probably rewrite how that data is pulled/stored in the first place.

While I agree that Kumos is promising and I hope it comes to fruition, it still stings that it has been years since we got our last CSC/MC pet slot expansion. MC pet slots are good for the economy because it means that hundreds of millions of SP are sunk, and CSC pet slots are always a swift way to get a couple 15$ from the userbase.

You're right that we should be patient - Kumos really does have immense potential.

But, throw us a bone, please! I think the last time we got CSC pet slots was something like 2022?

Good question! I didn't actually think it through that far. xD But I really like what suggested - only being able to use said slots when you have an active subscription. I'd also be down with being "locked" into a 6 month or 12 month subscription for this premier service.

THANK YOU for bringing up other currencies, I am a dirty American who doesn't ever consider other countries lmao. That's a great point! I do agree that the price tag I'm proposing is... rough. It would literally only be for the freaks like me who are willing to spend their savings on virtual pets.

I also understand the argument that pet slots should always be attainable without having to pay a single dime! You're right in that one of the great things about Subeta is that you don't technically have to pay real money for any pet slots. You could save up the sP to buy the cash shop credits you need. I... I DID do some math, however, and it doesn't look great. You would need approximately 6.6 billion sP to afford enough cash shop credits to buy all 55 cash shop pet slots. This doesn't factor in ANY other expenses. Realistically, how many people out there are able to hit 6.6 billion sP without spending real money on cash shop credits? I'm trying to think of how I want to simplify my own argument... I guess, what I'm trying to say, is why NOT have a paid option for pet slots? If someone is so determined to max out their pet slots AND not spend any real life currency on Subeta, they are going to be hustling HARD, for a long time. There's, what, 90 pet slots you can get between the cash shop and the millionaire center? I don't see how it would be unfair for there to be a subscription-only pet slot service when a player who doesn't want to pay any real money has access to 90-some slots. Idk. I'm struggling to put this into words. Do you get what I'm saying? xD

Oh, also, would you elaborate on why you think $50 is sending the wrong message? I'm just curious, since I'm personally in the "would pay anything for more pet slots" boat. :D

I'm with Avel - optimization first and foremost. Then we can talk about actually adding more pet slots. Heck, even just optimizing the pets page itself so it doesn't pull all the various pet data at once would be great.

Having pet slots locked behind subscriptions is making them into a premium thing very few users will be able to afford. Which begs the question - would it even be worth to charge 50$ for something not many people would be interested in getting, or could afford to begin with?

The same goes for the idea of the pet slots "expiring" when your subscription does. We've had that with GA bonus slots back in the day and it was so fucking frustrating to juggle a GA while trying to quickly adopt a pet from the pound, or get it from a friend. We have pet transfers now, so it's much smoother, but I don't want that "feature" back for anyone. It was terrible.

To finalize: yes, I would love more pet slots! But having them locked behind a, frankly, ridiculously high paywall and have them be temporary on top of that just feels like flipping the finger to everyone who can't afford to shell out that much money. Especially when all the pet slots so far have been accessible. Grindy, yes, but accessible.

If staff wants to add something like this to subscriptions, I'd suggest a tradable/sellable pet slot token item. That way, users who don't want pet slots but have the money can support the site, and they can sell/gift the token to users who want pet slots but can't afford to support the site. And nobody has to deal with the garbage that is temporary/expiring pet slots.

But seriously - optimization first.

I had to deal with going before an agent of the Pennsylvanian Attorney General this morning and I had to be there first thing so left at the crack of dawn. (Long story, but summary is someone got hold of PART of my identity.) Plus, still have Covid brain. Pardon me for not making sense either.

I think it's kinda... eh to be suddenly having this whole thing about a homestead on Kumos when there was talk of "houses," etc for basically the entire time I've been on here and every time that came up, it was shot down and now, suddenly, it's a-okay because we're rebuilding the site from the ground up?

The way the houses/etc were reacted to, I thought those were "Don't ever ask about these things ever again, how could you insult me this way" situation.

I mean, it's a grand idea if it helps the server strain that's going on but at 330 users on today, give or take, from the height I remember seeing of around +2500 users because the Super User achievement exists. I don't see how 330 people can make a massive strain on the site...

Idk, ignore me. I need ibuprofen and a nap.

Idea no. 1: For other limitations, I don't think pets in storage should be eligible for spotlight; they'll be kicked out of queue if put in storage; and shouldn't be able to collect pet income.

Idea no. 2: I'm fine with the idea of locking additional pet slots behind a premium option. Everyone already has the option to receive a free slot every year. There are 80 slots attainable through F2P means and I think that's plenty combined with the annual freebie totem.

There's no impactful advantage to owning more pets; unlike the advantages you get from owning a GA, for example. So, I don't think it's unfair to F2P users – speaking as someone who is F2P – to be unable to access these slots. There are already slots I can't "access," because I joined later than other users and didn't participate in every event that offered them as rewards. So... doesn't bother me if more get added to that number.

That said, I do think locking it behind a $50 subscription tier is questionable; and I'm against the idea of them expiring. I get that the temporary measure is to ensure users re-subscribe – but a user paying such a high price of $50+ shouldn't have to pay a dollar more to re-access them, should they ever unsubscribe.

It wouldn't be buying a slot, but renting it. I don't want to see Subeta move more into the realm of subscriptions nowadays, where you don't actually own the things you buy, despite paying an upwards of hundreds for it.

I can see how this would be frustrating as a F2P user, so I get it! If I were in your position, I wouldn't be happy about pet slots being unavailable to me, too, simply because I can't pay for them. Income is tight, especially these days, and not everyone can afford to throw money at pixel pets. At the same time, however... there's multiple real world examples of this whole "paying for a premium experience" idea that I feel like I could liken this to.

I used to go to American football games, for example (let's go Seahawks!). Everyone who has a ticket gets to experience the game, but some people pay more money for premium tickets - so that they can get a better view, have access to better restrooms, better food, and so on. I've never been able to afford a premium game ticket - I've always gotten really bad nosebleed seats. Yet, I don't really view the people paying for a premium game ticket as a "middle finger" to me, even if I am a bigger fan or somehow more deserving than they are. That's... literally just how life is. Some people can afford more, some people can't. I think it would be silly to expect everyone to sit in the nosebleed seats for fairness's sake when there are people who are willing to pay more for a better experience.

EDIT: I suppose the error in my analogy is that, theoretically, I COULD save up enough money to afford the premium ticket, one day. So I get where you're coming from when you make the argument that all pet slots should be attainable through site currency!

I hate capitalism and I also don't want this to turn into a "haha I'm better than other Subeta users because I can afford a premium subscription, just look at all my pet slots!!!" thing, because that's not my intention. What I'm trying to convey is that I want to help Subeta. We all know that this site doesn't get the revenue it truly needs. Premium/extra pet slots would just... give a few of us an incentive to give more money per month? And like, yeah, maybe literally only and I are crazy enough to go on a billion dollar per month subscription to a pet site. But wouldn't that be... like... worth it? Boom, here's an extra $100 from two users per month and all you had to do was give them one pet slot each? I know $100 is probably nothing in the face of running a website, but it's more than what they would've gotten without offering this hypothetical premium service.

These are good points! I do vehemently hate how people are forced to rent, instead of own, media these days. So, we can toss the idea that these slots would be temporary. I initially brought it up because I wanted there to be more of an incentive for people to continue on the premium subscription path, but I understand if y'all don't like that idea. :D

In case anyone is wondering, I'm not, like, Mr. Moneybags over here, I would have to pick up another shift at work to be able to afford a premium Subeta subscription lmao. I WOULD DO IT THOUGH

Yep, you hit the nail on the head! Unlike IRL, Subeta's version of capitalism actually lets anyone obtain the high-ticket items if they have the time to grind. Legendaries, godlies, old plot wearables - they're expensive and rare, but buyable.

Hence my suggestion of the pet slot token if staff is going for the premium/subscription pet slot route. For a 30-50$ subscription plan, you'd get all the good stuff from the Goddess tier subscription, plus the pet slot token. So once someone's maxed out on pet slots from the premium subscription tier but they can still afford to support the site, they'd have some incentive to remain subscribed since they'd get premium pet slot tokens they could give/sell to others. Think buddy GAs, but with pet slots.

Absolutely, dahling.

We're always told that pet people are causing lag, server trouble, that it's pet hoarders' fault if everything is going wrong. We've been hammered so many times with this rhethoric.

Having a subscription fee that's more than three times the current highest one really rubs me the wrong way. It's cementing that pet slots are so damaging to thre site that they need that much more of a premium compared to everything else.

I can afford it! That's not the problem - it's the message that it sends. That we're so much of a server hindrance that we need to pay extra - triple the current highest subscription fee - to get something we like.

It's really a psychological barrier to me. I also completely agree with Frost on this - they've said it in a beautiful way.

I'm always in favor of more pet slots, even if I haven't maxed my slots yet. More pet slots means more 'investment' in the game, which means more potential revenues for the site.

I'm going to be with Sopheroo here, and say that locking slots behind a 50$ USD/month subscription is not really the best way imo. As a fellow canadien, with bank fees this is almost 75$ a month. For Australien players it's over 80$/month. It's way too much for a pet slot, and it means F2P players can never have access to them. What I like about Subeta, is that everything as always been accessible without spending any real life money on the site. You can buy CSC with SP, so anyone who plays the game has access to everything on Subeta, which has always been a plus in my book.

If we want more premium pet slots, I could see it as being a super expensive cash shop special slot. Maybe it could be say, 10k csc, but you could buy the slots for only 50$ USD if you pay with USD instead of CSC?

I'm not sure how much money this would actually give the site, as there has been least and least players that are into pets, and even least veterans that want more slots. I don't see how giving a few extra slots to say, 100 players (probably least let's be real) would cause much of an issue at this point. I do hope the Home project on Kumos sees the light of day someday and that we can buy unlimited slots at 1000-2000 CSC, but in the meantime, I do support more slots for people hat want them.

I get it! Although I guess this only works if other, more seasoned users are willing to sell their valuables? I think about a particular CW I was extremely lucky to get when the CW system first came out. I sold it some time later, and I came to regret that decision immensely because I am 99% sure I am never going to get it back. There just aren't enough in circulation - a lot of the users who owned copies don't play anymore. I guess where I'm going with that tangent is that there do exist items that some users simply can't get, and is that really fair? I mean... not really... but at the same time yes? Someone's always going to have more than someone else.

I think I'm thinking of these theoretical pet slots in the same way. No, it's not "fair", per se, to the users who are F2P. But at the same time, I can see this argument somewhat as "well, I can't afford this nice thing, so nobody should be allowed to have this nice thing either!" if that makes any sense? Again, I TOTALLY understand being against this idea of subscription pet slots. I was a F2P player for a very, very long time, and if this conversation happened ten years ago I would've been pissed at the idea of pet slots being out of my reach. I also don't... think it would be the end of the world if there was a disparity between F2P and subscription users? Like, yeah, it sucks that you wouldn't have what I have, but then again, that's literally what I'm paying for, y'know?

Sorry, I'm struggling to formulate a coherent thought. I think my argument ultimately boils down to this: "If Soren is willing to spend X amount of money on Subeta, Soren should deserve a little treat uwu"

Anyway. The idea of a pet slot token is a good one, I think! The only problem is that I would refuse to sell mine unless there were a limit on how many slots we could unlock this way. xD

Oh, that's actually an interesting thought! I didn't really see it that way, but I'm the one who came up with the damn idea, so, I saw it in a more optimistic light. It doesn't have to be $50 - that's just the amount I threw out because it was what I was personally willing to spend on an extra pet slot per month. Or we could just not do this subscription idea at all. You guys did point out a few good flaws, especially with how this would be unfair to the F2Pers. While I'm personally on the side of "if I'm paying this much I deserve to have more perks than a F2P user", I also realize that makes me look like a privileged asshole. xD So I understand if y'all think it would be a bad idea for Subeta to create this special, elite class of assholes who have more pet slots than everyone else.

i don't think it was ever stated that the "homestead" feature was going to have anything to do with houses? in the past people used to ask about something akin to the "neohomes" on neopets, where you had actual graphics of a house with rooms that you could decorate and expand. that has nothing to do with the homestead concept, which as i understand it, would:

• serve as a "partition" of sorts for pets you aren't really "doing" anything with but still want to keep, so they don't show up on pages that otherwise need to list all your pets like the main pet page, items that can be fed/read to/played with your pets, etc. in addition to the strain on the server, it can be frustrating as a user to have to scroll through so many pets just to use an item or train a pet when there's only one or a few you would feasibly be doing that with.

• potentially introduce tasks or jobs to assign your pets to in order to, i guess, acquire items? maybe there was something to do with some sort of crafting? unclear what the exact direction was meant to be but something like that.

so again, not sure where the comparison to houses is coming from??

"So I understand if y'all think it would be a bad idea for Subeta to create this special, elite class of assholes who have more pet slots than everyone else."

I actually like the two paid ways for pet slots we have - a static fee for CSC at 1500, and a climbing fee with the MC. If the site adds more MC pet slots tomorrow, the LEAST expensive one would start at 120M SP, which isn't something for every purse!

I have 131 pet slots, the two I'm missing is because I joined Subeta in late 2006. I love pet slots, but I want everyone to have access to them. Tying them to something that not everyone can afford because it's not a SP/CSC option doesn't feel right.

I want everyone to go and enjoy more pets. I completely agree with people who thinks that the Kumos Recode is the solution - but once again, I'm begging for more MC or CSC slots.

It's been over two years, we've been good, the site is way more stable than it was a year ago. I think we're due for some.

I think homestead or pet farm was simply a term being used as a thing to name the mechanic that would essentially put our pets, that we don't want to pull queries of, in some kind of stasis. The only one making mockups of houses and everything was me and my crazy desires. i know realistically having something akin to classic Neohomes on here is out of the question. It's not what other users want, nor would it be a good "investment" for staff to bank on for adding content to engage site traffic. It also wouldn't generate any actual money for the site, so it's a no-go.

But that can't stop me from pretending where we had a minor fun feature where we could choose our house style, and name our home address, and paint the colour of the house, blahblahblah...

I agree that the Kumos recode is the solution, too! But it would be nice if we could be given a few more MC or CSC pet slot options in the meantime. Realistically, how much harm would five or ten extra pets per person do to the site? (I literally do not know because I am not a programmer lol so I guess it COULD be pretty harmful and I just wouldn't know it)

I'm glad we've been able to have this conversation, though! Thanks for your thoughts, guys. Honestly, I don't care how Subeta gives us more pet slot options, as long as they do it. And soon. Because I want more pets lmao