This is sort of a revamp feedback/ suggestion so I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to post it.

I think it would be amazing if all the revamp items could have the option to transform into the new or older versions. I think this would make everyone happy in that not everyone wants something they bought to change. It would also appease those of us who really want to see the return of overlays that we found to be better than the revamp.

thats a cool idea...I like it!

If this doesn't become a thing, then I'm just going to start submitting old art before revamps as cw's. Inspiration for onsite items is borrowed from cw's all the time so shrug. oh and heres the /s. I support this idea though.

That seems like an alright idea. 'Retro' version or something like that.

The only negative thing I can think of why this might not happen is that the point of doing item revamps is to update the art so that it fits more with the site's current art style. If the old versions were still left around anyway, it kind of defeats the purpose I guess.

I'm not particularly opposed or really care one way or the other personally, this is just a reason that it may not be done. But it's up to staff anyway, of course.

(And this might belong more in the suggestions forum, since this forum is more to give feedback on items/NPCs/etc. that have been revamped.)

I don't think this would be doable. Revamps are important, even if they're not everyone's favorite. However, I do think staff artists should be considerate of the old art they're revamping. It's not exactly a revamp if there's literally nothing left to remind anyone of the original. That wolf cutter tooth is basically an entirely new wearable now. It looks absolutely nothing like the original, and that's what has people upset. I think a new item that closely resembles the original would be a fair deal in response. Not the first time it's happened; the Mahar is basically a compromise pet for the Rreign revamp long ago.

This is an excellent idea.

The reason there's so much revamp wank is that people who like the new items act as if there was nobody on the entire site that loved or used the old ones.

Then, they make fun of people who object to having items that they were actually using changed on them without their consent, even though those same people would probably flip a table if their partner or their parent replaced their favourite beat-up old plushie or sweater without asking and destroyed the original item so they couldn't even fish it out of the trash.

That's a nice idea but what happens if you want to sell/trade/donate the transformed item afterwards? Does it transform back to the previous version or does it become non-tradable like redeemable wigs? If the one of those items is in a shop for instance, how do we know if it's the transformed version or the original one? Do we get to transform the item back and forth, indefinitely? If the items get name tags like "Item Name (Old Version)/Item Name (New Version)" do they keep the same item ID?

EDIT : Ooh I didn't know there was such a Transform option, bought one of the hijabs to test it and it's a very nice feature! Well it's totally feasible then, now the question is how to distinguish the transformed item from the original (item image excluded)? Name tags? Different item IDs?

I don't see why it should be any different from other transformable items, like the hijabs or arm mods in Cavern of Curios which are not non-tradeable and have numbers. You can transform those as much as you want.

Redeemable wigs are a different story. They go into the salon. I actually kind of hate them because you can't save them unless you save the avatar itself, which means every time you want to use one you have to redo the entire colour scheme.

I actually don't see why revamps are necessary 99% of the time. If the artists want to make and release a completely new item, why not just do that?

I like the wolves actually, but there've been a lot of revamp decisions I really think were just terrible.

For instance, turning Keith's plushies into completely different characters instead of renaming them was a really obnoxious thing to do, because if you ended up with a character you really hate in your collection, you couldn't delete it. (And yes this happened to me.)

Changing the style and colour palette of garments that people are using is also obnoxious.

Updating the art style? Fine I guess if it makes people happy, but someone who's using a high-necked blouse shouldn't wake up and find that it's been replaced by a low-cut blouse, and someone who's using a long, wildly flared black coat shouldn't wake up and find that it's been replaced by a straight jacket that's a whole lot shorter.

I was all for removing the avatar cutouts from every single item now that we have body mods and limb erasers. But then I remembered these avatars that I made:

Outfit Not Found Bill 190211by Valiska

And I still like using them for Morostide, so...I'd probably keep those bgs the way they are.

I don't mind revamps that are faithful to the original's art. I do mind when a revamp does basically throw out the old art, as if there's nothing there to work from. That's more towards wearables opposed to pets though, as I hold pets in higher regard and importance than clothes. As for the Keith items, I don't know, that's just staff's decision to phase those out for whatever reason. I think it's stupid too, because it kills preservation. But it's already happened with all the old Easter and Christmas items that were renamed when Subeta decided to make its own holidays.

I think the old pet art for the common poses should be included in the Subetapedia though. Like what the Rreign or Ruffie used to look like, and how it's evolved to its current iteration. Same for redraws, how many iterations a Reborn Paralix has gone through. It's at least preserved on the SubetaWiki but to have it also official here would be nice too.

I get that this seems like a reasonable "compromise" but it really isn't. The artists don't revamp items because they're mean, or bored or have run out of ideas about new things to draw.

They are revamping items because they no longer reflect how the site wants to be perceived. Keeping those old images on site is just incompatible with that goal!

I understand that people want to keep things they've enjoyed. I've had to get rid of a revamped pet in the past because it just made me so sad (and still sad to this day that my pet is gone). There are a couple items in the wardrobe that I used to use all the time, then they were revamped, and bam! I can't use them anymore. I've complained. I've moaned. And now I just use other wigs or shirts.

You can't try to keep an art standard and then also keep old items around. It sucks when an item you like is revamped and you can no longer use item, especially if you're attached, but I don't think the old stuff is what Staff wants to show off to new users.

I also totally understand why an artist might not want to keep old items either. I know I have a hard time looking at my old art.

I have no clue why we can't have old stuff AND new stuff. Look at websites like Gaia. Like neopets. There's plenty of wearables to choose from. Old, new, etc. And there is a TON of old stuff. Things from like 2005 that have never been touched. I don't see them being unable to attract new people. They don't have to revamp their old things because they're constantly coming out with new content. Subeta is the same. It may not be on the same level as the other sites, (which is a goddamn shame that I have to keep pointing out that Neopets is more put together than this website), but when you factor in that theres thousands of custom wears and event items, and things in the cash shop, new stuff coming out every other day, why is there a need to revisit and "fix" old items when you can just make new ones? The revamps of the pendant and the wolf tooth could have been two entirely new items. Instead we got whatever the hell the wolf from the pendant is and a twilight wolf. Oh and a bunch of piss babies whining about it in my inbox and the news because I don't like hate it. And I don't even hate the wolf tooth revamp as much as the pendant; I even bought a copy! Ya'll want a solution/suggestion? Ok fine. Solution: They could have been called "Ominous Pendant" to match the haunting glow of the wolf's eyes, and "Red Wood Cutter's Wolf Tooth" to match the reddish-brown fur of the new wolf and BOOM. Fixed. Now you have two versions/recolors of the same items and everybody wins. They literally force us to do this with custom wears so whats the issue here? And you know whats funny? NEOPETS did this too! They made two versions of the same staff, and while it was baffling, people liked it! It was so well received, that they did the same for other items. Wow shocker.

I haven't liked too many of the revamps in the past, especially what they did to the like what mentioned, and don't even get me started on the Kitsune Furs, but god forbid the one time I actually speak out on one, I start WIII on this hellsite because we have to kiss ass and just accept what we're given. Sometimes its not about whats better, sometimes its just about having the best of both worlds. But clearly we aren't allowed to have that either because we can't even get past the fact that other people dislike things. So to reiterate what I said in the news post before: thanks I hate it.

Besides, the last wolf item they have left to ruin is the . So I guess I'll just wait for that inevitable revamp and see you guys then. And I'm not saying that this item is perfect, but you know what? I'm allowed to say whatever I want about it regardless. Because thats called gasp having an opinion.

Heh, I remember Neopets revamping a pet because it was mocked to hell and back. Definitely pretty darn rare for them to do though.

For me at least, it's not so much as I'm opposed to the idea (I don't see myself using the old version of anything but whatever). I just don't see them investing in it because they do seem to want to keep a standard and all the complaints on previous revamps haven't stopped them yet.

I don't think there is a satisfying answer to "why can't have both?" and yeah, some people are right - it would make more people happy. Even so, I just don't see it happening.

So apparently the 'like' function is still resoundingly broken on mobile but TEN THOUSAND TIMES THIS.

I had a whole rant blocked out about people mocking and harassing then turning around and saying the other side is the ones doing it, but that has little to do with the actual content of this thread. would definitely stamp down on the majority of it though. yeah you can't please everyone with a revamp, but if I, I dunno, take your pink chibi cat and give you a burgundy semi-realistic adult lion with no explanation then watch people tell you to be grateful about it your feelings are gonna be hella more angry about it than if I gave you something much more similar with maybe a few differences you don't like but eventually grow to accept.

Don't worry, I already said that both on the news thread and here.

If you want to be able as an artist to remove your old art from the world, don't put it on the internet and especially don't sell it to people. I cringe a little when I look at some of the writing I did for zines in the 90s but I'm still not allowed to go into people's houses, steal their zines and replace it with a version of the story that's not so clunky or worse, problematic.

Once something I've paid for is in my wardrobe, I don't think it's unreasonable to want it to stay the same, especially if I paid for it with CSC. At least I can trust that my CWs won't mysteriously disappear and be replaced with something I might not like!

While I haven't been on Neopets, I've been on Gaia and Poupee Girl and a fair number of other avatar sites and this is the only one that takes items people are using and turns them into completely different items.

No other avatar site I have ever used does this.

Particularly not with items people paid actual money for, like CSC, Gaia Cash, Jewels on Poupee Girl, etc,

Nobody thinks that the artists are being malicious.

But they do need to put a brake on their creativity when they "update" items people already own and use instead of turning those items into a completely different thing. If they want to make a completely different item, they should do that, and not destroy (for instance) someone's high-necked bow blouse to replace it with a blouse that shows cleavage for days.

I actually like the wolf revamp and I liked the blouse revamps, but they should have been done as new items.

I don't mind revamps that are faithful to the original art. But they don't seem to happen very often.

The issue with the Keith plushies was that it would've been very simple to just take his name off them. In fact it's been done with many other plushies, like the Mini Mister Vampire. But in this case, someone got the bright idea to just replace plushies people already had with plushies of totally different characters. Like Jade. And Maybel.

The problem with this is that, unlike a wearable that you can sell or delete if you hate it, plushies cannot be removed from your account. I am not sure why this is, but once a plushie is in a collection, you are stuck with it until the end of time.

I was very unhappy to have one of my Keith plushies replaced with Maybel. I do not like her. I have worked at a medical research university for over 20 years and I do not think her plotline as an animal liberator is cute or charming or laudable because I've seen the messes those people leave behind. Most of the critters they "free" don't actually survive, and when research animals are put down, they are euthanised, whereas "liberated" animals that can't find food in the building will frequently eat each other. I freaking hate those people.

What if someone's plushie was replaced with a Gunter one and they were really upset about it now that everyone knows he's a murderer? Not everyone hates the Animal Liberation Front as much as I do. But I don't think a lot of people would want a plushie made to commemorate a convicted murderer.

The new character plushies should have been put up for sale as new items, so that people would have the choice to not buy them or sell them if they got them questing.

@/Valiska The way I see it, it's one of those shitty risks we take by being a guest here. The objects aren't physical and and only last as long the site does or as long as they allow us access, and in addition to that, the site can do whatever it wants with their items. When/if this ship sinks, we all spent on money on art we didn't really own in the first place. At least with a zine, you own it one way or another once you fork the money over.

Shitty? Sure. Not much we can do though if they don't decide to take suggestions like these to heart.

Also, I think there is a suggestion thread for being able to remove from collections like plushies. If you haven't already, doesn't hurt to revive the idea and throw your two cents in.

[edit] Had some more sleep and I think I'm done with this conversation. I feel like we'll just end repeating ourselves. Agree to disagree, except in regards with the plushie thing, but that's a different topic.

Exactly. I think if this new wolf had the same colouration as the old one, it'd be way more acceptable. Why the artist ditched that colour palette, dunno. I just feel reminded of those Twilight wolves when looking at the new wolf cutter overlay. And I don't mean that as a compliment lol

Good points. I agree with Avel, maybe the idea of being able to remove plushies from collections might be something to consider. It doesn't fix what happened though.

Support!

Also support the compromise in not creating what is essentially a brand new item/wearable when revamping.

Like I feel like the is true to it's original in concept but in wearability,it blocks way more of the face and sits a little high. Also as someone who is busty, the old Black Tank Top used to be my favorite because of the chest wrinkles that are hardly visible now. It also seems like it has more highlights than shadows now. I think that makes it look a little shiny. =/