Hey guys - this is something we rather wanted to get some opinions on as to what is the kind of thing you'd like to see from a transgender NPC? We absolutely don't want to offend, only to represent faithfully and truly. So we have some questions!

• There are terms like 'passing' and 'non-passing' which I know infuriate a lot of transgender people. Translated to art, should we disregard possible bodily changes and just literally introduce the character as transgender? It doesn't have to be a big part of their personality on Subeta, because in Subeta they have not and do not have to face the same type of persecution and difficulty of the real world. So would showing things like breast-removal scars be totally offensive? Or binding tape? Issues of erasure? I think I'd like to leave this as more of an open question, so please feel free to talk about the kind of visual representation you'd like to see. You can smail me if you're uncomfortable about posting in public.

• There's been suggestion of Jim the gym trainer as a trans man for a while now, and behind the scenes we haven't firmly settled on it but are interested in the idea and some of us have started seeing him as such. If/when he's revamped, his design could stay very similar and there's just the fact that he was born in a female body and maybe has a slightly more feminine jawline going for him. The thing is, is that historically on Subeta his image used to be a Cream Charlie, so I'm concerned about the implications of writing a body dysmorphic character that has literally been another species! I'm curious to know if that would effect the idea of this particular character being a trans character, or if it doesn't matter after all.

And lastly, just anything you'd like to include about visual representation or anything we should be aware of including or not including if/when we were to canonise a trans character on Subeta.

I'm gonna stay in my lane and let someone who is actually transgender weigh in on this, but I believe saying "he was born in a female body" might not be the right way to phrase it? "Assigned female at birth" is preferred I think.

If I'm wrong please correct me!

Actual trans guy weighing in! (Also, amusingly, my name is also Jim.)

1. You should never, ever, bind with tape. If Jim is shown binding he should be wearing a binder.

2. It wouldn't be offensive to most trans people to show him with top surgery scars or in a binder; I obviously can't speak for ever single trans person on earth, but it's not frowned upon or anything for artists to include those details in art. (A lot of us actually appreciate it because it makes it easier to determine that the character is trans and also because, well, that's what we look like in real life.)

3. If Jim the trainer is supposed to have physically transitioned with hormone therapy (HRT) and surgery, he probably wouldn't be noticeably different from a cis guy; there'd be no need to "feminize" his jawline or anything. HRT does serious miracles. Unless he's going to be shirtless 24/7 to show the binder or top surgery scars, art alone is probably not going to get the point across; you would probably have to drop hints in dialogue or have him actually come out (if you do that, feel free to hit me up for appropriate terms and phrasing).

4. Re: the Cream Charlie thing -- I don't think most people would take issue with that unless he was supposed to have somehow transitioned from Charlie to human instead of just replacing the art of one with art of another? Admittedly I had no idea that had ever been a thing, so I'm not sure what the history there was.

5. I'm so proud of Subeta for even wanting to do this; thank you for thinking about us and being respectful about it.

idk, people get angry enough when someone else calls Quentin a male or female even though the person who called them that doesn't know that Quentin isn't supposed to be called either. I feel this would fall into the same category and cause more drama in between users than to make people feel more included. I feel like this is just sorta "well we want to have one of everything on the site so everyone fits in"

edit: I have nothing wrong with wanting a transgender npc, I just worry how people will react to the change. there was enough fighting in the news comments about gay marriage being legal in the united states, not to mention the thread about removing gender labels from the HA body types.

I really like this idea.

I think the discussion is great.

I do agree that there will probably be a lot of drama, but my conclusion from that is just the opposite. The fact that what someone else does with their own body upsets some people -- well that's why there needs to be a transgender character. No one can learn anything if we don't talk/debate/grow.

People are always gonna want to argue about something, I'd rather give people representation than worry about what fighting might come out of it. :P

I think as a whole Subeta is going to always try and take progressive steps because that's what it does and it's backed/created by people who aren't afraid to show what side of the fence they sit on.

I'd honestly rather have no one get representation so people can argue about issues that aren't relevant in the real world. No matter what happens, not everyone will end up getting representation.

Agree to disagree on that. :)

Though now that you say it, I would find it hilarious if all NPCs became Subeta pets and avatars were removed because I wouldn't even be entirely affected. Not enough to make me leave the site.

Jim being transgender is fine by me. I'd forgotten about the Cream Charlie so I don't think the original artwork is going to cause any problems after all this time.

There's a lot of discussion about what trans is and isn't. A lot of times people are jerks about it, especially when they're semi-anonymous online. I don't have the knowledge or experience to say what's what myself, but it's a delicate topic that doesn't get handled with enough care when people are trying to tell others that they do or don't fit in or exist within narrower personal definitions of human sexuality. Personally, I think it's great that you guys want to diversify your characters and that you're trying to be respectful about it too.

I think a trans NPC with vaguely cultural roots would be interesting. Many ethnic groups have their own histories concerning non-binary people. Omen Islands and Shengui Guo strike me as interesting places to build lore in this way.

You can't please everyone, but I still think you should go ahead with your plans in order to enrich the site. (Debate forum, stock market, bank interest, etc.)

I have very little constructive thoughts to add to this as it isn't something that effects me so I'd really hate to speak out of line on a subject I know very little of.

HOWEVER, I do want to say:

I really think this is a great step for subeta to take, and I really appreciate that feedback is being asked for before hand.

My only thought to that is people who might have great feedback for this might not exactly be in a position to post publicly. It might be a good idea to give people a means of privately offering their thoughts? Be it s ticket or just a staffer they can mail. I might be wrong though.

This might not be my place to say since I'm not in that category but...

I feel like having Quentin is actually enough or if Jim wants to be re-introduced as a transgender then a mini-plot that would include the literal meaning of it would be ok.

as mentioned people get touchy about Quentin as is and he's such a cool character that I find it hard to believe he would be offended by the use of wrong terminology. (like what I just did!)

I don't have much to add, either, but fully support whatever steps Subeta takes to ensure further representation of minorities. It makes me proud to be part of this community. As a gay man, I'm lucky that the world is beginning to accept me beyond a thinly-perceived stereotype and appreciate any steps the site takes to make sure its representation of a transgender character is as fair and thorough as possible.

As a transgender individual this makes me VERY happy to see Subeta willing to have actual transgender representation amongst their NPCs.

Personally, I think you should create a new character rather than using Jim, since it would feel more like an "active" attempt at representation. While making Jim transgender could potentially develop his character more, it also feels a little less intentional since it wasn't a part of Jim's character from the very beginning. You could also honestly have both a new NPC and Jim; more than one character for representation wouldn't hurt.

Concerning body scarring / facing the issues with the subject - some people WANT relatable characters that they can identify with / what they're going through. Other people want characters that aren't facing these issues / are happy / accepted, because that's the GOAL we're trying to reach with society. So to be honest - either of these options could work. I do think happy transgender characters are probably not as frequent though, if that helps with the final decision at all.

I am also really going to agree with what said:

Binding with tape is actually really harmful / does physical damage to the body. Whatever you do, don't show art with this, because then people will think it's okay to bind this way and end up hurting themselves in the process. :C

I think just confirming that Jim is trans is enough. Kinda like how you've confirmed that Quentin is neither. He doesn't need to have any major changes to show this but if he did all of Strange's points were great. Maybe he could wear a representation of the transgender pride flag? :)

I don't have much I can add or advice I can give but I'm really excited about this idea and am all for it.

If it gets people talking or stirs up some drama, so be it - all the better to be able to discuss it out in the open.

Perhaps Jim could be a transgender male and a new NPC could be a transgender female?

That would honestly be really neat if they did that. C:

Having a trans character is great, but I do hope you create a new character for this, rather than using Jim. Jim already has a subetapedia article, with an established history "In his younger years, Jim was an average boy of below-average build;" etc... I like Poppet's idea of potentially creating a new trans character from Shengui Guo. Shengui Guo is a seemingly blank slate since it's brand new, and this would be a neat idea to encounter there.