Jim can be an average boy and be a trans boy. Not to mention the fact that IF he was trans, calling him a "girl" in his article at any time would be inaccurate. He would have always been a boy.

I do see your point and agree with it. I just wish there was a way to progress without the fighting and drama that will come with it. This is a game, it becomes a lot less fun when there's a thread with a lot of attacking going on no matter what side of the argument is doing that. The community guidelines are good and all but I haven't seen much come from them except from the occasional reminder to reread them. Hell we can't even take interest away without people arguing with each other.

I personally wouldn't mind a trans npc, and think it would probably be a good thing overall. I am just not sure how the community will handle it, because in big arguments, no one really comes out as the winner. I guess all I can hope for is increased moderation when it's released. I do not like when its left to users to police things because I don't think that is usually done respectfully.

I guess I do support the idea, though I don't want it to be casually added to an npc's background as an afterthought. I hope there will be some good ideas in this thread on how to encorporate it into the npc's character so they aren't just a one dimensional npc as someone stated earlier :)

discussion is healthy and necessary for this kind of thing, but I imagine it becoming disrespectful on both sides of the discussion quite fast. Just look at the shinwa revamp comments and tell me why anyone can expect anything different.

I definitely want to start this off by saying I am not transgender, so my post is mainly about the idea of representation of minorities where I personally feel like backtracking and making an already established character something else to fill a moral quota as a sort of cop-out, especially if the purpose of a trans character is meant to be for representation purposes. I honestly would have no problem with you guys going around and assigning genders and sexualities to every NPC, but no matter how diverse you try and make them that way, I don't consider it representation. Similar to the whole "Dumbledore is gay" thing. I have no problem with that and I actually love it, a gay/trans/racial character doesn't have to be those things for the sake of representation or to be relatable. But if they ARE created for the sake of representation, proper representation, then that needs to be a focal point. Not the only point, not the only aspect of the their personality, not their identity, but I do think it needs to be acknowledged in more than a, "Oh yeah, I was born with a vagina" kind of way.

That being said, I don't think I have a problem with Jim being transgender, my main issue is like what is saying. You already have something established, but at the same time that doesn't mean much in the scheme of things. I guess I would rather have you guys rewrite your already weak lore and backstory into something more sound and concrete than trying to build off of the old stuff because it's like trying to build off of wonky, broken code. You'll only be able to get so far.

However, I'm also definitely with . We got a mini-plot/event to confirm Emma and Esther were a thing and we got a huge plot to let us all know that Jaxon and Ian like to do the cabbage patch in the pumpkin patch. I feel like it wouldn't be out of place to have a little event for something like this or to change an NPC. tbh, I thought we would get a lot more of that after Amy. I still think murdering her was one of your greatest achievements because it affected the site on multiple levels and it was something that made you guys unique at the time. So if an NPC was finally comfortable with coming out as trans I think it'd be great, especially in terms of misgendering. If it was a notable NPC it would be all the better to inform the userbase of how to properly refer to someone, especially if a little plot included other NPCs with a couple continually mixing up their name/gender, not out of harmful intent, but it can be difficult for some people and you just have to keep correcting yourself.

So yeah, I'm sorry if this seems rambley or offensive. Maybe all you're looking for right now is how to properly draw a transgender character without offending anyone, but hopefully you think just as hard on how to implement them. Like others have said, the new land would be a great way to add in a trans character as well.

I'd be glad to see Jim "come out" (as it were) as trans, but I'd also like to see a new character who is announced as trans from the start, to avoid the sort of...I suppose the politest term is confusion, that continues to arise over Quentin's gender. (If you're reading this, and you don't know, Quentin is androgynous and the correct pronouns for them are they/them/theirs.) As someone who is nonbinary, I was very excited to discover that there was a character who was written as nonbinary, and I would love to see more trans NPCs.

Also, , I don't know if you've seen this or not?

I am not trans* but I have known talked with and been friends with them, for what it's worth.

Most trans* folk perceive themselves as being of a different gender from a very early age. Trans*!Jim being referred to as a young man therefore is exactly correct. Whether he looked/dressed/was treated like a man at that time or transitioned that early is irrelevant. A young man is what he was, and now he is an older man. (stares pointedly and resists raising one eyebrow, voice tone entirely neutral any edge you hear is your imagination) Folks who object to this would amuse Jim, because that's the point, they're so convinced he could not be trans* based on how he is presented so far he is passing with flying colors. Their insistence that the Subetapedia article must have been and should always be precisely medically and genetically correct in every detail is odd. The 'pedia is written in a conversational style, and people just don't talk that way.

The goal of most trans* folk is to pass. Therefore no change to Jim's looks-today are necessary. If he so chooses to share what he looked like in the past from a photo album (and there's a compelling reason that suits him to think it's worth the social cost which is way to fucking high BTW and everyone's baby childhood pictures can be awfully embarassing for entirely non-gendered reasons) then go ahead and draw some intermediate image.

I just thought of something; we have this new land out, right? Why not make one of the upcoming npcs transgender? Like, a new shopkeeper or a quest-giver. This would be a good opportunity to create an npc that was always meant to be trans rather than just tacking it on a pre-existing cis(?) npc. I don't know, the more I think of it, the more that sounds preferable to having an npc come out just for the sake of representation when you have the chance to make an entirely new character we can grow to love.

Trans guy here. I'm 100% for trans characters and 100% for more fleshed out existing characters on Subeta, so I absolutely support Jim being trans male. As others have pointed out, his wiki article wouldn't have to be changed tremendously--actually, it could be as simple as adding "Jim is a transgender man" somewhere in his current information, though I'd like to see more added beyond that, of course! I know several trans men who work out to achieve typically-masculine body shapes, so you could refer to that by adding something like, "Jim found that working out helped broaden his shoulders, and when he started looking how he wanted to look, he wanted to help other Subetans and pets achieve their desired appearance as well, so he opened the training center." (Of course, that's just a random idea--I'm not sure if that would tie perfectly into the already-established parts of Jim's personality.)

As for illustrating him, I'd say keep his general appearance the same (if we're assuming he's "post-transition"), but adding top surgery scars (peeking out from beneath his tank top or just drawing him shirtless) would be subtle enough to let folks who haven't read his wiki article that he's a trans man. I recommend looking through before/after images of trans men who've undergone hormone replacement therapy so you can see just how effective testosterone can be. I think it'd also be cool to add links to all NPC's wiki pages under their page's content, if they have a page, so people can more easily find their wiki article. I also really love the idea of adding NPCs' pronouns to their pages.

We should definitely add a trans female NPC, or even have another NPC come out as a trans woman. Thank you for working to provide users with good representation, and thank you for consulting folks in the process as well!

A suggestion for Jim's biography (or the biography of a new NPC who is transgender). He should have come to Subeta from Earth. After all, a native Subetan who wants to change gender could just eat a Sex Berry or go to Ian Asmodeus. Neither option would leave surgery scars.

PS: That should be Euclid, not Ian Asmodeus.

I think I've always kind of assumed those two things only work on pets, not humans? I'm just like... Transgender NPCs? Totally awesome. No objections whatsoever.

Canonizing travel between Subeta and Earth? Nope. Nooo. Nuh uh, no way.

Another trans user throwing my two cents in here.

I love the idea of a trans NPC, and especially of having an already existing NPC come out as being trans. I know some people don't care about the little guy getting representation, but it definitely means a lot that the staff here are considering it and taking feedback!

In addition to not showing/mentioning using tape for binding, if Jim is reworked to be trans, maybe not showing him in a binder would be good as well, mainly because working out (or assisting others in their workouts) while wearing a binder isn't good for you, either. Some other folks might wear theirs when working out and they'd disagree with me, but it's generally considered to be a bad idea to wear restrictive garments like that during exercise. Safety is important!

I don't personally have any issues taking an existing NPC and having them be trans. I still existed before I came out to everyone; I didn't spontaneously come into being when I realized I was transgender, and I kept that information to myself for a long, LONG time. It wouldn't be unrealistic if Jim (or whoever possibly gets used-- I liked the suggestion of Blake also!) just didn't come out to people for a long time. It's a scary thing to do, especially considering that a lot of people aren't going to like or accept you for it.

I'll have to come back and add more feedback when I'm not quite so tired, but I have confidence that Subeta can pull off trans NPCs in whichever directions they choose to go from it. None of the NPCs ever felt like token minorities, or that their gender/sexuality/what have you was all that there was to them. I'm looking forward to seeing what comes out of this!

So where would someone go for the required surgery because there are no Earth style medical facilities on Subeta? The only place I can think of is the zombie Doctor in Shadowglen.

A quote from the Subetapedia about Centropolis. - http://subeta.net/subetapedia/index.php?act=ventry&id=109

This indicates that humans aren't native Subetans so they must have got here from Earth somehow.

Not to derail the topic but for some reason i always thought MD to be trans, he reminds me of Buck Angel.

Subeta is a big place. It's not like there are just the handful of clickable buildings and then a bunch of vacant storefronts for show.

And I don't know, the whole "settlers" thing always seemed kind of hand-wavy? I could be wrong, but I don't think they've ever explicitly said that we got here from Earth, and I personally prefer it that way. I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything. I just see that as a big can of worms, and I'd rather not give any NPCs Earth-based backgrounds.

I actually remember a staff member commented on it years ago when one of those "ermergerd keep Earth away from Subeta and change these items" boards popped up, explaining that yes, there are roots from Earth and that is why we have some lore and the like related to the real world, including the language books (which I think the board was talking about changing ?). I think they mentioned something along it being more somewhat-forgotten and a long time ago ? But again, years ago, terrible memory.

I honestly think people get too worked up about Earth and real world things being on Subeta. It's been stated numerous times that there will always be some kind of relation.

True, but then it's likely that the Old Wizard could adapt a Sex Berry to work on humans and Euclid could adapt his zapper to change a human's gender.

I'm not trying to pick a fight either but we can't get away from the fact that there are items which indicate that humans came from Earth. For example, the Book Nook sells textbooks for various Earth languages. How could anyone on Subeta know about Earth languages unless humans from these different countries came from Earth? Quick Bites sells a small selection of Chinese take-outs and the Enchanted Maiko Comb shows that a trainee geisha arrived at some point. There's a lot more if you look.

- you posted the same time as me. I don't remember that topic you referred to but the explanation does make sense.

I didn't mean to derail the thread like this, so I'll just bow out. Sorry about that. :P