Subeta downright cannot afford to keep a website working properly, I am pretty sure they cannot afford to outsource an app's development.

They should have looked at it years ago, back when daily goal was hit on a regular basis, but now, even the 1st of the month isn't enough to get 100% of the daily goal.

Apps are MASSIVE money sinks, and for each one that is profitable, how many are not? A lot. yeah, an actual mobile app is so far down the totem pole in terms of what the site needs right now. (though I will say a semi-working mobile browser site you could actually do anything on/navigate wouldn't make me unhappy...) (edit: read the source post for the quote, and v much agree with the full post. whoops)

actually wasn't that around the time the new wardrobe 3.0 was started on? or were we still in the working v2 at that point. the timeline of this whole site is just one big blur to me. (no seriously. glade still seems like a new released color to me and we're already getting harvest AND friggin revamps of it now.)

Things do seem really bad right now but people have been saying Subeta's just about dead for years. It might still have years left but if people keep going, "Omg the site is dying," others might feel discouraged and leave. I get not wanting to invest in something that you feel is going to go belly up soon but can people not see that if they're thinking that others are as well and so nobody will invest in Subeta and the money will disappear even faster? That's what always happens... people panic, stop investing and things go belly up. If you like Subeta enough to want to keep it around then buy CSC if you're able to.

I hope Subeta sticks around for years more because it's an awesome game with lots of content continuing to be pushed out. It doesn't seem like it's as close to death as some people think.

That only works if staff want to keep it open though. Stability has been horrible for months now and there's no end in sight. Without staff actually talking to us, communicating consistently, and proving they care with action it looks like they don't to a lot of people.

Maybe that's wrong. I hope its wrong! I don't want Subeta to die, honestly. But if staff refuse to do comment, communicate, acknowledge the extreme errors/instability/significant downtime publicly, update the news/status site/social medias, anything... well, there's not much we can do. At the moment Subeta is an extremely poor investment in my opinion. Many people don't have a lot of extra income and election years are always harder on businesses (especially this year). Based on what the site has been like lately, there's no guarantee people would be able to use their CSC or items for long. Or that they'd ever get to use them in the case of wearables with the still broken wardrobe. I think its fair to be concerned and not want to sink more money in at this point. I'd rather put my limited spending money into a stable site or something I feel more sure about.

i don't think it's right to ask people to continue buying csc if staff won't even communicate with us. i love subeta, i really do; that's why i keep coming back, even if i take an extended break. i miss the fun i used to have here and the site has honestly helped me through some really bad times. i don't want to see it go under and i don't think anyone here, myself included, are saying these things lightly. however, this is still a business and transparency is important. i mean, some pretty serious problems are popping up beyond the usual errors, and staff haven't said anything about it other than 'it's being looked into.' even the status site, which was pushed at us as a solution, is being neglected.

i haven't minded giving subeta money in the past even when i really didn't have money to spend. however, that support goes both ways. i'm paying for a service, and if that service isn't up to par with no explanation why, then i'm well within my rights to pull my support. if staff would be more open with us and reassure us that the site isn't being neglected (with more proof to back it up), i wouldn't feel as betrayed. but, as it is, i do feel betrayed, and i'm not willing to shell out more cash - even to save the site - unless some of that trust is restored.

Idk, I'm not sure how much they can really say about the state the site's in. I'm frustrated at the lack of communication as well, or the, "We've fixed the servers!" nonsense when we can still see a ton of errors and downtime. The site probably needs to be rewritten completely because it's structurally unsound but that's a ridiculous amount of work which would probably require downtime. It might not even be feasible unless it's done by an outside company. Just not sure how much staff would want to say about something like that if they're not sure what direction they're going to go because they'll just end up making people angry either because people won't like the direction or because staff might say they're thinking of doing one thing then change their minds.

It's also true that maybe they don't want to keep Subeta going for years more but there's still a lot of content being created. I don't think they'd be putting so much effort in if they didn't want to keep working on Subeta. I've watched other pet sites die and the content creators totally ditched it so nothing new was being made. We haven't seen that on Subeta at all so I don't think it's as close to death as some people think.

Well we've (users and staff) known for so many years that the entire site needs a recode. I thought it was in progress a few times but I don't really know? I think things had to be scrapped at least once? Ages ago there might have been money to get it recoded by someone else, or hire help, or just devote to that, or anything, but I think we're past that stage. Too many people have left over various issues or just grew out of Subeta and people are barely giving the site any money. It feels like a ticking time bomb as to when the site will give out because of all the bad coding.

I don't think its an issue with the content creators at all and that's definitely a good point. The artists are still doing a fair bit. We didn't get many pets for Morostide and that was a bummer but otherwise I think we've had a good pace of new stuff. To me it feels kind of like the opposite of most pet site deaths. Instead of content drying up in the usual way its site updates, communicating, fixes, things like that. It feels like Keith is extremely uninterested in Subeta anymore and kind of like the staff is just a mess now. It feels like no one knows what to say to the users because of disinterest or losing touch or lack of staff focus/communication. It might not be those things, and I hope its not, but that's the impression I've personally gotten lately with all these issues and how they've been handled.

I used to praise Subeta for having such professional staff and really great customer service in regards to ticket responses, even if I was pissed off about something or disagreed with something or whatever. But it hasn't felt that way in a long time. Its been a couple years since I encouraged anyone to sign up because of all the problems and issues.

Even outside of Morostide (lol three pets), we seem to have a lot less content than we used to, even item-wise.

We're November 14th, and so far, item wise, we got the collection items, two TS items, recolors of beanbags, and three pet revamps, two of them who have the same lineart.

A lot of news posts were for rereleases of old items. Meanwhile, we haven't had a Ruffie Raffle update since...what, July? August? When did the Dragarth dolls came out, it's been a while. Zentu is still very lacking in new colors, even the Zasaba doesn't have much.

I don't know, I know we have a lot of holidays coming, but it feels like everything else is on the backburner and we're going to have like 150 fireside items and 10 sets in Melody's cottage (please not, the sets were the worst thing that could have happened to Melody, seriously)

I just hit my 10 year anniversary and I've experienced a bad times but during those times staff was decent, not the best by any means, at communication. They would say something and confidence was renewed somewhat. This time feels so different. No one is on here to give any comment, nothing hollow or reassuring. This level of silence is not something I like and it gives me some anxiety about the continuation of the game.

- I don't mind a set or two but I do agree that they ruin the uniqueness of the Advent. I always liked that holiday as a time to get some really special, unique items, but the last few years just feels so simplified with sets.

- I have to agree with what said... it isn't fair to ask users who are unsatisfied with the status of Subeta to buy CSC. A business transaction is a two-way street and is voluntary, and I believe a business needs to live up to their words and deliver their product. I'm not saying that everyone should stop buying CSC... it's entirely up to the individual. I just can't, in good conscience, give my money to a site that isn't living up to their words and even remaining silent. If this somehow changed with improved communication, transparency, and fixing the site's problems, then I would be more than happy to buy CSC and support the site.

I don't think any of us are fear mongering out of nothing. This site is very unstable, and with everything we've seen, it's a fair assumption to say the site is dying. There's still some great content being delivered art wise, but that's really it. Unfortunately, it's not enough to keep Subeta running in its current state.

- Happy birthday! :D

I hear you on the anxiety about continuing to play. I have lost motivation to work on my pets or learn how to make a CW. I don't want to give up on Subeta, but I don't think spending a lot of time building up things in this state is a good idea. At this point, the only thing I'm coming back for is the community.

As much as I get annoyed by site lag and shitty wardrobe, I still support the site by buying CSC pretty regularly. I'm here for the pets, and as long as I get to create characters, and draw, and come up with stories and TC's and chat with other people who like to do the same, then I'll continue to give the site money. It is frustrating when the site isn't functioning properly, but I'd rather this laggy, unreliable Subeta than no Subeta at all. So, I agree with Mouse that we have to support the site if we want to see improvement and new content, art, etc., even though it's basically like giving money to someone you half-trust to pay you back - you're not quite sure if you're being played. I've lost too many of my other pet sites, and I don't want Subeta to meet the same fate.

If it comes down to Keith losing interest, then I hope that he would act in a figurehead capacity only, and hand over the reigns to someone who was still passionate about running the day-to-day operations.

Anyway, as much as some stuff sucks, other stuff is awesome (high quality art, new content being rolled out consistently, some great mods, etc.), so I'm grateful for what we do still have :)

Players can go play Neopets whenever they want, they can sign up for Flight Rising currently, they can take the money that they used to spend on CSC and buy a Nintendo and play that if they need a way to be entertained. Players shouldn't be looked to as investors that need to keep a sinking ship afloat. Not when staff aren't bothering to pick up a bucket and help.

Subeta has always charged USD for csc though? It used to be easier to obtain in the past with sP but since they started pumping more things through the cash shop most people now buy csc with real money. I think if the sole reason you are buying csc with USD is to donate money to the site to help fix it, then I can understand if you want to stop buying in protest. On the few occasions I bought csc i did it thinking this is money I'm prepared to lose for something I want csc to spend on, accepting that if the site closes down forever that money is a sunk cost. I can agree with people that don't want to spend money because no positive changes have been made. I think they should stop releasing items through the cash shop until more improvements are made as well.

- That's okay if you want to continue to spend money on here. But, it's not fair to assume that everyone else has the funds available to support the site. For example, I don't have much money to spend on fun things, so I have to be picky. I can't afford to throw money at someone or something I don't fully trust.

I do think that Keith handing over the reigns to someone new might be a good idea or might become the only way to save the site. But...

1. Who would take over?
2. Who would be willing to buy the site if this is what it comes down to?
3. How do we know that whoever takes over Subeta won't let it meet the same fate as Neopets?

- Yeah, I have bought CSC with real money a few times. I had no problem with it before and was okay with the possibility of losing it forever, because there was communication happening and there were visible improvements or works in progress being made. It looked like I was investing on a better site. But now, I don't see anything happening but more errors. I feel like if I invested now, it goes into a black hole.

I didn't assume anything. I meant 'we' as a collective group of people who already support the site financially, but maybe are unsure of doing so because of recent problems. And obviously everyone is free to do what they want - if you're bothered by the lack of communication and lag then by all means, withdraw support! But in my personal opinion, as soon as there's no financial incentive for Keith and co. to keep the site running, it will wind down and eventually die. So, my thinking is that if I want to keep playing, I'm going to keep paying when I can, and so long as some effort is being made :) As long as they keep rolling out pet slots at $20 a piece, then stupid people like me will keep buying them XD

Another news post asking for money. Still no staff response to anything of importance with the site.

Seriously. I would be totally fine with them not releasing anything for 2 months if that's how long it takes to focus 100% on site errors. I think the problem has always been and still remains that subeta has more artists than programmers on staff. Of the programmers, I don't even think any of them are full time? I wonder if they've thought of hiring consultants specifically for this problem.

Communication has always been abysmal on the site but yeah, I think it's patently clear that Keith's passion for the site has long passed at this point. I'm happy to keep supporting the site occasionally because I still enjoy it but it would be nice to know what direction the site is heading in; it feels like we haven't seen progress, outside the shops revamp, in over a year, when some areas of the site desperately require attention (cough, wardrobe, cough).

I wonder if handing over the reigns and/or internal restructuring would be received well... I'm curious as this might be the best possible solution.

- It's true about the pet slots. XD There's going to be people buying things here until the very end. For the ones that are still buying stuff, I can see where they're coming from. It's good since it does keep Subeta afloat longer and gives a chance for things to improve.

What's clear is whatever side of the argument someone is on, we want to see Subeta succeed.

I'm pretty sure its been mentioned, by like Keith or other admins, before that Subeta is past being able to be sold? No one would want to buy it? Does anyone else remember that or know when/where it happened? I don't feel like spending hours on Google trying to search the Subeta forums.

But either way, I don't think anyone would want to make the investment. It would probably be cheaper to build a new pet site from the ground up with mobile functionality instead of recoding Subeta entirely and trying to get users to come back and give it yet another chance to not disappoint. A lot of people are beyond the point of trusting Subeta.

Or if they did it would be like what Jumpstart did to Neopets... fire all the staff and then barely be able to hold things together.

I was just thinking that. I fear if the site was sold or could be sold... it'd just go down in flames in the end....