yeah seconding this.

Quote by fun

the lack of response from staff on this when multiple users with DID have spoken up and given multiple ideas for their lore when the base concern was... an achievement name, not necessarily asking their entire lore to be rewritten, is really frustrating. we wanted an offensive and outdated term for an achievement changed.</p>
<p>i&;m very glad staff wanted to address the problematic backstory but genuinely some responses in here are literally just &quot;take away the DID implications and just make them a MONSTER CREATURE instead!!&quot; and i don&;t really think people are aware how hurtful / dismissive it is to us with DID that would like positive and correct rep instead of just removing it for sensitivity or palate&;s sake...</p>
<p>but. i genuinely don&;t think changing an offensive term should have to wait 1.5 years because staff thinks it needs to wait to be pushed out with an entire character rewrite. just irritating to see other insensitive terms and item names be changed within the span of a week while this gets brushed under the rug despite effected parties expressing their hurt.</p>
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This! Would love to see this outdated and offensive verbiage fixed prior to figuring out the deep lore of the characters. This is a simple achievement update and I personally don't see any reason why it should wait while the finer details of the overall concept are ironed out especially when people have expressed their hurt over the matter.

It makes sense to me to handle it all in one fell-swoop. Then it's done and over with, and then nothing else gets missed in the process after the achievement name is changed. Let staff figure out how to approach it, it'll happen in time.

respectfully, i disagree. an offensive term should be removed promptly so effected parties don't have to sit and stare.

like i said, many other offensive terminology has been removed within days with little discussion.

why do we get excluded from that? why is it fair that we have to wait multiple years and 4+ pages of a forum for an achievement name to change because staff wants to completely overhaul an entire character's lore?

sorry, i deserve to not see a derogatory term towards my illness on a site that generally tries to be inoffensive and has been on top of changing other things when pointed out.

[edit] just want to add that it's been three months since they said there would be a statement about the changes and then radio silence. people get upset about the tea house, about mysterious melody, about broken promises...

i think it's alright to bring awareness back to an outdated and harmful term without being told or being alluded to it not being a big deal and staff will fix it in time.

they haven't.

this exactly. i can understand wanting to update everything at once, but it's not the right approach here. the issue that was raised was not the entire mono ri lore, it was the achievements. and i don't understand why the achievements weren't changed at that point, when multiple people with DID came out and said the term is harmful and negatively impacts them, and then brainstorming for lore changes.

an achievement fix is pretty simple in the face of something that users have said is harmful, and the fact that it's been over a year since this was brought up, and months on top of that since anything has been said by staff, is ridiculous.

i don't have DID, but i don't think it's actually difficult to listen to people who do and make changes quickly to reduce the hostility of something they have repeatedly said hurts them to have to look at.

other changes can come later, and all you have to remember so as to "not miss anything" is that you changed the achievement (+ anything relavant).

seriously, this is getting shameful of staff.

as one with DID ive already been made fun of extensively about this when speaking up on this platform(which is cool af stay classy) but yeah all we wanted was a bare minimum was 2 lines of text to be removed (split personality) but other stuff like pansy is taken as more offensive and just idk.

during waitin i got both achievements only doing quests on the weekend. staff have made a big song and dance about redoin mori nori but we've got shit all. shits tiring. patience is wearing thin. shit or get off the pot at this point tbh.

I get the one fell swoop thing but you could of at least bandage patched the blatant offensive part that sparks off this whole debate

the term split personality is just antiquated, no longer edgy, and is used as fear bait in horror movies.

but hey I have been told this is a tiktok disease and that I shouldn't get upset abt it so...... 🤡🤡🤡

Made an account for the first time since the 00s, and am glad to see there's a discussion thread on this as I explore more of the site and the content that has clearly been built upon over many years of design philosophy changes.

Personal context: I am a 34 year old trans man with DID in remission. Encountering the Mori+Nori content did not harm me personally for two reasons; because I am not currently at a hypersensitized part of my healing process, and because her content is written in a way that matched my expectations based on my earliest memories of the site. The tropey and derisive way she is written matched the tropey and derisive way I learned how to relate to and express my condition as an Edgy Internet Teen. There is a certain level of unpolished Edge(tm) in this site as a whole that I really love.

So then the question is: is it actually the site's priority to do better? What's more important? The raw edge of nostalgia or the health of a disabled subset of the player base? Because you can find evidence of both, suggesting that the devs themselves probably are unsure of their priorities.

You can tab right over on the quest hub and find a thoughtfully depicted nonbinary character who dispenses a MASSIVE selection of items that serve no gameplay function other than being a quality of life improvement for queer flagging within it.

And then you can go back to your Cursed tab with its gorgeous visual design and regurgitated, throwaway 'split' trope about an impossible binary of identities that can never correctly fit into the same body at the same time and must existentially be at war. The devs were never wrong for trying to write a story like this. Tropes are shared ideas because they are compelling. But for a portion of your audience, these concepts that are 'fun ideas' are liable to try and play themselves out dangerously in our bodies if we are not rigorously defending the boundaries of our psyche from the messaging of 'impossible existence' that we can just RUN INTO in society at any time, and will be running into every day if they want to do their Cursed quests.

For most people, the state of having to "rigorously defend your boundaries" is not what they're looking for in a browser-based virtual pet game. It's not accessible. For the amount of care put into queer accessibility, it really does feel like a completely different design philosophy to leave Cursed quests in this state. There's a whole thread of discussion here, clear interest, and multiple users here who have been willing to disclose their disease, and who would presumably be willing to discuss with staff writers what accessible alternatives would look like. I know I would be.

Subeta is often slower in the summer months too, with everyone going on vacations and whatnot. I'm sure we'll get an update soon now that summer is pretty much over! I don't get why it's taking so long either, but maybe there's more going on than we realize. I don't think staff doesn't care though.

Hoping we see the adjustments on this soon since summer ends on the 20th 23rd. :)

[edit] (Corrected myself, idk how I mistook the end of Autumn for the 20th, but I sure did. Staff has a few more days to hopefully get this finished. Fingers crossed.)

This hasn't been forgotten, we've just really had to limit what we can work on and prioritize lately!

i was out of town during this added discussion but 1000% agree with what Fun and the others say. I mentioned that maybe the offensive terms could just be changed real quick, and was hopeful that the overhaul would be soon after amber posted but tbh i'll just say that again. Just change the offensive terms. Give them a placeholder name even. It just adds two more small bullet points on your overhaul to do list.

I would also like to point out that old offensive stuff has been changed pretty quickly in the past, but lately it seems like the Item Name/Description Update Thread has been pretty low priority lately, and the "Two Faced Sticker" has even been posted there, but there have been no updates or changes for a while. IMO these changes are so easy and so important in general, I don't know why staff hasn't been doing them lately. Its an easy win for them to just take.

An overhaul sounds great, but honestly just changing the small things wont wreck the entire process, and would just make things so much better. I'm excited for the revamp and overhaul, but honestly I'm far more excited for staff to make these small changes that really impact items on the site.

Thank you all to everyone who has continued the conversation about this, and for staff for giving us updates, but its been so long, please just do a simple change (and consider taking a few hours out of the day one day to make some other small changes that have a big impact)

ok then can we prioritize taking 10 minutes to change the problematic achievement name and worry about literally everything else relating to mono ri later or give us a reason why harmful language cant be removed before a whole revamp because that part hasnt been addressed past "we're doing everything at once!!!" like why. if the whole picture is going to take years then change the part people have been saying is problematic from the beginning of this suggestion

edit bc im irritated: almost everyone that has DID literally just this thread has said to change the achievement name and worry about the other stuff later bc we understand item renames r a bigger commitment. why does this keep getting brushed off and not a single argument or request from a user in here has been directly addressed in recent times

Heavily agree with both Rat and Fun. The important thing here is getting rid of the offensive terminology, while the big changes can be done at whatever pace is needed. It's just disheartening to have an offensive, stigmatized label used despite many of those it affects speaking up about it to educate. At this point its no longer an innocent mistake.

We appreciate yall have a busy workload. This is, however, still an important matter that has been left as is for way too long after attention was brought to it.

Do yall just not care about those affected by the term? It's okay because you're not the group it's hurting? I realize this probably isn't the case (at least hopefully) but how can we think otherwise after the issue and the concerns have been ignored for so long?

can we get an actual response instead of crowd control? nothing has been said in here since may and that was about something that didn't happen. i sincerely feel like we aren't being acknowledged and i don't think staff has addressed how hurtful this entire thing has been. it's also starting to draw in other people attempting to do crowd control and making it seem like we're being unreasonable, because this is at the bottom of staff's totem pole and continues to be, so obviously it's not that big of a deal, right??

there's been no reason given for not changing the achievement other than wanting to do everything at once, and multiple users with DID have requested to do the achievement name first and everything else can wait!! it feels so "no youre wrong im right i wont tell you why tho!"

i understand having to prioritize things but that's sort of the crux of the issue being discussed here: that for whatever reason this issue has been ruled as lower priority than other things that have been changed over offensive/harmful phrasing.

instead, it really seems like the people who are most impacted by the achievement are being ignored completely. it's been ages since it was first brought up and rather than make the simple change that was being asked for, it turned into some big thing that has now, seemingly, been put on a back burner. multiple people in here have expressed that they want the achievement change more than they want a whole revamp, and yet the two have been bundled together rather than being tackled separately. it's disrespectful, and makes it seem like everyone with legitimate concerns over this is being dismissed and ignored.

i respect how overworked staff is, and i truly appreciate the hard work everyone puts in to keep this site running, but with nothing substantial being done in over a year and nothing substantial being said in months, and meanwhile the simple request that people with DID first brought up has been completely ignored, it's extremely difficult to come to any other conclusion. it's frustrating to see the same people seemingly talking to a wall about something that hurts them, when nearly every other issue of a similar nature has been addressed in a far more reasonable time frame.

the only reason this is taking so long is that staff themselves decided it had to happen as part of a whole overhaul, but it doesn't have to. please stop ignoring the people impacted by this, and just dedicate a bit of time to changing the achievement name.

god, i haven't been on here too much lately but it's cool to see nothing changes. subeta staff always bites off more than it can chew.

yet another grandiose, sweeping overhaul that's in the works for years. teahouse, subeta v2, main shop changes, rarity squish, autopricer changes, battle system overhaul, and now this too. seems like one of those things would only take a little time to fix though. hmm. curious.

just stop trying to reinvent the wheel with every change or project that falls onto your plate, jesus christ. it's embarrassing this was brought up close to 2 years ago and the achievement just cAn'T bE rEnAmEd before the EnTiRe ReWoRk!!!

yeah i'm being really snotty. and i don't care because i'm tired of this crap. i think it's more rude to just keep trying to ignore this issue and give PR responses that don't really mean anything.

Also... the news post announcing there would be a lore change for this STILL didn't acknowledge why this change is happening. It's changing because it's hurtful, harmful, and offensive. We asked for a news post as acknowledgement since staff seem to not want to remove hurtful achievement names until they release everything (which, as many of us stated above, we also disagree with). Instead the harm is not mentioned once in the news lost and instead all they say is:

Accountability where? I'm just disappointed that offensive terminology has taken so long to change when other examples of this were changed so quickly, and that the news post about it also doesn't acknowledge the issue.

Again, I'll ask: are we simply not a minority that yall care enough about? I know those of us with DID have a very stigmatized mental illness but that's exactly why we're asking for sensitivity here.

Staff, by not doing these things you are continuing to both show and tell us that we're not important to you.

yeah, as one of those with DID, we do definitely appreciate the sentiment behind wanting to update everything at once, but definitely agreeing the crux of the issue being the title name. priorities and everything, we know there's a lot going on behind the scenes, but it's disheartening to see this being delayed time and time again.

subeta's been a safe harbor for us for a long while. it's been great seeing staff listen to us about suggestions on the site before, about inclusions and changing things to be more sensitive about the groups affected. it'd also be great if this could be one of those.

we'd personally be fine with waiting for everything else, but as long as the title itself could be changed to one of the less offensive suggestions, we'd be good.

the ask was so simple.

just change the achievement name. just get rid of the problematic terms stuff. it really shouldnt be that hard or drawn out. the prioritize statement isn't exactly helpful to your cause, either. reads as our feelings are not high on the list of your priorities. even moreso since this topic has stayed active. please, do remember that this all stemmed from us asking that the offending term be removed. over a year ago.

yet, yall decided to over correct and just became another longterm project stuck in development hell that nobody actually asked for.

It's not that it's low priority, it's [I]literally we are all having to work less hours*[/i]. We don't have a dedicated writer (which is why you haven't seen any new articles) and it's hard for me to pull the artists for brainstorming/lore when they're already on a tight schedule for their quotas. It's all just very slow going! My goal is still to have this out before Summer ends -- it's just not there yet. My post was really just saying, hey this is being worked on and hasn't been pushed off to the side completely (because the original post was what, May?).

*[I]Pet sites aren't exactly popular anymore. I'm sure you've all noticed we have less traffic onsite, even for it being during our more "dead" time. We've had to adjust a lot to keep things going and at the moment, that means we're all (not just artists) spread pretty thin.[/i]

I should've explained that a bit better when I posted earlier this week but the joys of me trying to post and also being sick = horrible communication all around.

[edit] I forgot to add when I hit enter -- no matter what by Autumn the text will be changing. It's just a matter if all the lore is sorted out - if it's not, I'll just edit everything vaguely until it is.