Battle Chat 2021 Part 3 (See Post 1 for Battle Resources!)

don't mind me, just noting stuff mentioned so they don't get lost

Quote by Dandelion

Maybe instead we need a quick and dirty &;So You&;re Brand New&; post that tries for one or two sentence summaries and a link to each guide post for the actual information. Just something that doesn&;t look scary.

Quote by ghost

(in reply to the pet Loot, who battles only with loot drops and battle shop items)
Yes! This pet was super helpful to check out because I totally neglected to do anything with battle tokens for forever. Also I would have had no idea what those crude parts were for, or even which challengers dropped better stuff.

Quote by ColdDragon

I kind of feel like if people are taught how mechanics (icons meanings, attacking, blocking, freezing, healing and stealing) from the start, then they have more confidence and feel like they can figure more things out. The when they get to hard opponents they can start making strategies instead of needing to be told step by step what to use.
Also tell them when to start thinking about scrolls, then when that&;s comfortable, try some mods and then here&;s potions. Yes, when I battle my baby pets I have scrolls and mods and best weapon per Tier. But that&;s because I already know all about it. It makes life easier but it isn&;t necessary for the early battling.
If you have a gungo ho person that wants to brain dump it all and be instant expert, we have guides for that already. Now let&;s target the hesitant and overwhelm with super simple guides.

Quote by Avel

I&;m not sure if scrolls should be first introduced in a &;advanced&; section. Knowing what scrolls were from the beginning would have been a game changer for me (and knowing that even a T1 pet could have done a couple of BQs).
Even the training part seems to have an advanced thing in it. It suggests that defense should significantly lower than strength. I actually don&;t understand this and I haven&;t gotten to the part the explains it yet. Newbies should probably just focusing on getting stats up and maybe worry about that part later.
Knowing other ways to get stats would be good to keep in to help people train faster, but I also wouldn&;t worry about including the section about how the training center doesn&;t help after T10. If I&;m at T2, I am not worried about things that happen at T10. I will worry about it at T10.
I also agree that a set basics "you can have eight weapons, make sure you have a healer and a freezer" etc. could help. there are a lot of weapons which can be overwhelming but knowing that I should go look for a freezer and a healer instead of entirely weapons is good. I never really got the hang of it though, so maybe that&;s just me.
<hr />
... but yeah, beginners need to be told to read to their pets as they train, and given a brief idea of what sort of things scrolls can do and a couple of cheap general purpose ones to aim for just to help with BQs. Everything else can wait until later.
<hr />
I would use a baby pet for all the beginner stuff. If I&;m new, I would look Elfric and go "well, that pet isn&;t anything like that mine" and could contribute to people just tuning out if they think off the bat you need have high stats to get started (like I thought BQs were like).
Seconded by ColdDragon

[spoiler=Ispahan]

Quote

I feel like so many weapons are just so expensive. I&;m not expecting battling to be super cheap obviously but for example, when you hit tier 5 in the weapons guide, many of the items jump to a like ~10M+ price tag? I may want to get into battling but I&;m not sure if I want to put in that level of investment yet. What I think could be interesting potentially (although I don&;t know how well it would work in this system and maybe it already exists but I&;ve just missed it among all the guides) is maybe a play by play guide of how to beat certain opponents with budget sets or at lower tiers or something (and with some commentary?). It&;s useful to see like, oh, so that&;s how using a freezer or a bomb or xyz is useful. And seeing some strategies helps me extrapolate its usage to my other battles. Like, oh, that strategy worked against x, I see that y is kind of similar so I can use a similar strategy. Or adjust the shown strategy based on what I have. Some might think of this as "cheating," but sometimes, I&;m just too stupid to work around all the mechanics in my head on my own. Mr Cool&;s guides are close and pretty useful in their own right, but I&;m talking about even more ELI5 level.
To use an example of another game, I play Another Eden. The battle system includes mechanics like buffs/debuffs, switching out characters for other effects, weapon zones, element zones, a limit break-ish system, different weapons, "mods" to equip to your characters, etc. And sometimes, it&;s nice to just see videos/guides step by step of how to beat certain opponents sometimes even with just free characters because it gives you a sense of aha, so I can do that too! Or ohhh, so that&;s how I use zones effectively, that&;s why 1, 2, or 3 buffs/debuffs are so important, etc. Or look, someone beat them with x strategy that I don&;t really have the components for unfortunately but someone else beat them with y strategy which I do have more of the components for (and gives me something to strive for specifically if I&;m just missing like 1 or 2 weapons or something). Sometimes I do end up having to copy them almost exactly, sometimes I swap out parts of the example strategy for units that I have, but they have all generally helped me learn how to better utilize certain mechanics or appreciate certain items/units that I had underappreciated before.

Wesker

Quote

You talk about how to add weapons into your armory, but then jump into the advance section of battling to talk about scrolls. I would reorder this to talk about how to make a battle set right after you talk about how to move weapons into your armory, then talk about scrolls. For the weapon sets, you want to mention the different types of weapons (infinite use, single use, freezer, healer, etc) and how you can only equip one each of stealers, freezers and healers to your set.
You also might want to break up the guide into beginner, intermediate and advanced with headers for each so people know what to expect to find information on in each section. Intermediate battling I would say are things like getting battle tokens from quests and buying items from the battle shop (which items to buy, how to convert tokens, etc), the formulas for doing damage/defending icons with an example, what a typical battle set looks like, what farming means and why to do it, how critical hits work, and how to unlock more opponents/the different opponent tabs. I would also mention how tiers affect what weapons you could use. Linking the loot tracker sheet and opponent guide Jess has might be a good idea.
Types of scrolls and how to build scroll sets is good for the advance section. Things like pylonics, shards, and potions are good to mention in the advance section. In the crystal mod section, I would mention how each weapon has a different number of mod slots and list out what each mod does instead of linking another source. I think it will be less confusing that way.

Quote

Other things you can add in advance battling would maybe be the scroll guide sov put together, talking about endgame sets (this will depend on a person&;s budget but that they generally want to have various weapons that cover a range of different icons), and how some weapons do different things depending on stats and tier. Talking about build types can be a little tricky. I would talk about what a good strategy is for training your first pet. For example, I think most of us evenly trained pets up until x tier before we started to boost a single stat based on our results fighting different opponents and which stat we thought we needed more of. In general, high intel is always good because you can equip more scrolls to cover the gaps in your armory. High health means a high buffer to absorb damage for long battles and heal for more (until the healing cap). Most people choose higher health for their first pet for these reasons. "higher" could be anywhere from 1k+ higher than the other stats. Then maybe you can talk about training multiple pets and experimenting with different builds.
Maybe also mention having a goal in mind when battling to plan for your end build. Is your goal to have a pet that can beat all opponents? Beat all BQs? Participate in site events and do the most damage? Farm opponents and compete on the HST? Budget and build will look different depending on your goal for your pet.
oh and acronyms! We throw those around a lot and people get confused so it might be good to list or link all the commonly used ones.

Quote by Diplodactylid

I agree with ColdDragon : explaining the basic mechanics in simple terms helps a lot. I&;d also say that explaining the basic composition of a weapon set (freezer, healer/healing in general, blockers, attack) could be a good idea.
Forgot to mention in previous post: for absolute clarity, mention that the icons displayed below the opponent are the effects that are affecting the opponent / below your pet are affecting your pet, and remember to include images of the most important icons (frozen at least).

Quote by Jules

What is the best... cheapest/fastest way to raise AP?

^ Seen this asked quite a bit over the years

Quote by ColdDragon

The cheapest way to raise intelligence is reading books. SubetaLodge has a nice feature to track what each pet has and hasn&;t read. It also will let you sort by user shop price to knock out the cheapest first. It is labor intensive to read all to your pet.
If you know you are going to shoot for high intelligence and are prepared to sink in SP, I suggest buying from places like Zombie Den, Go Outside, Medicondria, Steamwork Managerie, and Esters first. The prices are almost always lower than buying from other users. Then you mass update on Lodge for your pet and get the books that are cheaper from users.

^ Yup yup

Quote by Cerredwyn

I&;ve never seen it before. I have potions attached to my pets and weapons modified, but what are Healers, Stealers and freezers??
"Oh No!
You can only have one stealer, one freezer, and one healer attached at a time!"

^ Another common one, something to note in the weapon sets section i think

Quote by METROID

I&;m going to take a hard look at the guide and potentially cut a lot of stuff out that is considered advanced. It might be better to run two separate guides, one that is purely beginner and one that is geared towards advanced. Atm the guide is trying to be a blend of the two, and that may not be good.
<hr />
The battle example might get an update to where I can show off every potential aspect, such as a curse, a blessing, a steal/blasting, a freeze etc.
<hr />
(in response to trimming the making a weapon set section - keep the fact that weapons can be in more than one set)
That should suffice. I&;ll look at cleaning it up. I didn&;t know if going step by step adding a weapon into the armory, then the steps to making a set is needed or not. I was really trying to make sure I covered everything as detailed and visual as possible.

's challenger custom CSS - https://pastebin.com/tCyJS9at[/spoiler] ^ Not pinging 'cos there's so many of you, but you are all fantastic <3

@ absolute Very late but oh my that's a genius bit of code! I'll just note it down so I can find it in my post history when I have time to look at it more <3

Logged Out

Battle Chat 2021 Part 3 (See Post 1 for Battle Resources!)

Filter

Replies