Actually you’re very wrong. CWs were never meant to be public or an open market like they are. They were intended to be private items for friends but the market exploded in a way staff didn’t expect so much of your post is just rant.

Also the reason we can’t just release more batches than stated on a whim is because there are people who did this to gain more profit so these rules are in place to keep those scams from happening again.

Yes it sucks that the Rum cakes are stuck to 20 copies each but when you make a statement saying all recolors will be the same limit sadly you have to stick to it because of past instances where CWs were used to scam others.

I really don't have a comment about old or new features, or CWs, or staff/community interaction, because I've got a busy life and really just come here to wind down and do my own thing - so, apologies if this has either been stated (here or elsewhere) and otherwise ruled out.

Subeta at its core is a niche, but great, product. It's what Neopets c/should have been, and the idea that Neopets (which has run itself into the ground) still has more daily active users than Subeta drives me up the wall.

The takeaway, though, is that Subeta is - and has always been - the better alternative, the upgrade, the more pleasant place to wile away your time. I think the idea that browser based games have been phased out by mobile gaming is true, but only up to a point. The success of places like FR and, for what it's worth, the continued success of Neopets (of course modest compared to the millions made by mobile games) speaks to that fact.

My point is that these people are out there. Funds are and always will be an issue, I'm sure, but I really do believe in the possibility of an aggressive advertising campaign both attracting new and returning players. The possibilities of targeted advertising means we can reach people who show interest in pet sites, avatar designing, etc. - maybe it's time to leverage that?

The beauty of Subeta is that these kinds of things can be outsourced to the userbase - and we're happy to do it. (At least, I can speak for myself, but I'm certain that there are dozens of us who would be willing to volunteer time, if not money, to some kind of save/improve the site endeavour.) Logistically I'm not sure what this might mean - designing advertisements? Brainstorming? Naturally advertising requires funds, but there are ways around that. (Kickstarter, for example, as has been mentioned on this thread.)

And while I'm not suggesting that the burden should rest entirely on the users' shoulders, I do think Subeta's strengths are, at its core, its good product, and its friendly and devoted users.

TL;DR I'm suggesting an aggressive, targeted marketing campaign to make people aware that Subeta both exists and is great.

There is SO MUCH to subeta and a lot of the site is very unintuitive and intimidating. When I came back to playing after years of a hiatus, it honestly felt like A LOT trying to understand what changed and where this or that thing went, etc.

I almost didn't stick around at first because of how overwhelming it was, but I stayed because my pets and my piled up amount of loyalty boxes hooked me back in haha

A lot of stuff also feels like you just have to be around and accidentally stumble upon this or that mechanic of the game. I don't ever recall doing the tutorial so I don't know how user-friendly it is to help newbies understand the game. But I definitely think that subeta can be a little more user-friendly. Because right now, it just feels like a huge and intimidating labyrinth. Once you know your way around, it's hella incredible and fun!

But navigating through it is just...not fun at first. And with our current culture of instant gratification and short attention spans, I can see how new folks would get turned off after a certain amount of time trying to figure out the maze and puzzle that is this site.

I really wish the search function on the forums worked, because that's definitely a great way for newbies to find information about X or Y thing. Sometimes, posting on the boards and asking a question can be really intimidating to a newbie (or even if you've been around for a long time!).

It's honestly easier to just search for your question vs asking something that's probably been asked a million times already (and possibly feeling like you're annoying people with your Q).

Also: the majority of games these days do not use unique naming systems anymore. If I'm used to that kind of feature and I start playing a game where I can't have a name that I want for my pet I'm probably going to be annoyed and discouraged. What's the point in sticking around here, a place that's already difficult to navigate, when I can join a different pet site or game that allows me to name my character or pet whatever I want?

Hey! So, CWs were put into place a bit before I joined Subeta, but as it was explained to me, they were originally intended to be a small batch sort of thing among friends, and not widely available on the site. Since releasers were mostly selling to a small friend group, I suppose the idea of "private batch" items just came about naturally. Likewise, CWs once required a full batch of 10 to be submitted at a time, instead of the current 5, and there was no option to submit directly to the Cash Shop or sell additional copies one by one in the cash shop, AND it was before the pricing structure changes for CW submissions (meaning all CWs cost a full 5k to submit). Naturally, few CWs could garner enough interest to fill more than 1 or 2 batches of 10. Also, especially beautiful or fandom-specific CWs may have once sold a lot of copies, but most people don't want to sell them - so when they DO come up for sale, they tend to garner high prices. These are some reasons why older CWs especially can be rare to find available on site, and when they are for sale, why they cost more than the average 500-700 CSC to buy.

At some point (probably at the height of the CW market 4-5 years ago, I can't remember the specific details), limited batch numbers became a way attract buyers for your new CWs, because an item advertising only 10-20 copies was seen as rarer, and potentially more value for resale - this trend has continued to the present time, mostly out of habit as far as I can tell. It seems to be relaxing a bit with the advent of CW shops. It's nice to be able to move any extra batches you have available for a CW to the CW shop, and hope that a buyer or two stops by. Regardless of the reasoning for smaller batches, if you publicly state that you will only sell X number of batches/copies, you have to stick to that number thanks to a crackdown on CW scamming. Some people try to get around this rule by releasing items with no set batch limit listed, or by listing it To Be Determined (based on interest). But, a batch limit HAS to be set when submitting an item to the site, and if only 10 people have expressed interest in buying your item, then maybe it seems pointless to submit it as 40 copies, or unlimited.

So, the site itself is not encouraging these items to be rare and expensive, per se. It's just the way the market naturally flowed over the years. Because it's the users who determined the way CWs were bought and sold and not the site itself, a separate economy formed. If the market judges a CW to be worth 3k, it will be sold for that, and if you can't afford it then you just can't afford it. I'm not saying its the best or fairest system, but the likelihood of a complete overhaul of regulations is slim.

I'd like to also point out that even if subeta changes all the rules for CWs tomorrow and makes it so that all CWs must be submitted as unlimited, thereby eliminating the artificial rarity problem that drives up the price on some CWs, CWs will still be expensive to create and to buy. The very lowest cost to submit a CW is 1000 CSC, or 200 CSC per 5 slots, which is still more expensive than most items in the regular subeta cash shop. The most popular items like wigs are 2500 CSC to submit, or 500 CSC per 5 slots, which is double the cost of a Delish wig. Because releasers want to make some kind of profit in order to continue commissioning and releasing CWs, those slot prices will always be higher. Any way you slice it, CWs are expensive. Staff may decide to lower costs to submit one day, but honestly - why should they? CWs bring in a reliable stack of cash, even as expensive as they are.

Hahaha I've written a novel already but here are a few more points:

-Even if subeta changes the rules regarding batch limits, etc, I doubt these would be applied retroactively. You wouldn't suddenly have access to more batches of rum cakes or whatever. It would be way too messy to deal with the thousands of unique CWs that are already floating around the site. -Releasers do not pay more to make their items unlimited, with a slight exception for submitting directly to the cash shop (submitting a nail polish, for example, would be 1000 if submitted via 5 slotters, or 1300 to submit as unlimited directly to the shop, but is cheaper for all other categories of items). The price to submit each batch of 5 is always the same, regardless of whether you choose Unlimited as the batch limit, or 10, 20, 30, 40, etc. -CWs could definitely stand some rule and policy reviews/changes, but again - probably won't be applied retroactively. -There is no mandate for skin color. Body mods that use skin pale colors and makeups that rely on pale skin are usually only made as such because of a preference either by the releaser or because they can't get enough interest to make a profit on other skin tones (sadly, a self-fulfilling cycle since it turns off more POC buyers.) I and others have talked at length elsewhere about how to encourage a wider skin tone variety, but right now there's no specific support by staff.

In summary, all of this is very convoluted and for the most part, ancient history. I can see how it can all be off-putting to players that haven't been immersed in the CW market much, or at all, and especially new players who see all these awesome items and have no way of obtaining them. As I said in my other post, I really would like to see CWs integrated in a way that makes them easier to understand and friendlier to casual players. Perhaps the answer is to make them all available all the time from the cash shop, I don't know. Wiser folk than me would have to discuss it - knowing that any major changes may drive CW releasers and hardcore buyers from the site, and making the cash cow suffer. ¯(ツ)/¯ There's a lot of layers of complexity, but it is good to talk about it!

I don't know everything and I'm sorry this was so wordy, I hope it contains some useful information and anyone else that might take issue with my previous post. I'm happy to discuss and answer questions if I can in my comments or whatever, since this is probably veering a bit off topic for this post.

to be fair, i do see a lot of people (2k+) on flight rising most of the time when i'm online. i know that subeta and FR are very different sites, but i don't think there's an entire lack of interest in pet sites, i'm just curious how we can get subeta in front of more people for them to join, and also adjust the perception of the site so that people are more interested in joining when they see it.

also, i think that subeta staff is extremely receptive and approachable. i appreciate how you guys really do read all of the conversations that go on, and you guys are actively involved in these conversations.

i REALLY like the idea of having gold accounts be sort of a "patreon" style, including the current GA features. i also think that creating some more incentives for GA would be great (some first thoughts i have are like...

1. having a redemption sort of thing for loyalty points, buying items for x number of LPs or being able to pick like an item from the cash shop (under 300csc or something) for 50 Lps?
2. letting people with GAs vote on something like item releases, event themes, types of events, something
3. lower submission prices for CWs
4. some HA features? some special backgrounds maybe, or "redeemable" wigs that are accessible if you have GA, maybe a small set of tattoos you can put on your HA
5. early access to beta features
6. early access to purchasing new cash shop items
7. a low-tier loyalty box type of thing, maybe you can redeem 6 for a pet slot, 3 for any sort of potion [like an angelic potion] -- or you get 1 token per month and there is a sort of redemption shop where you can buy different items for between 1-5 tokens (pet slot, 100 csc, potions, maybe a special new pet species, neela potion, etc.)
8. maybe you can buy 1 item from the cw pawn shop per month?
9. maybe we can do some kind of post design thing, like we can pick from like 10 different post decorations that would go in the box behind our HA?

right now, tbh, the only GA feature i purchase GA for is autopricer. i know that everyone has different pieces of the site they engage with, but i feel like most users have 1-2 incentives that they buy GA for.

i also respect what you have to say about being subeta's "ideas man." i imagine you're pretty run ragged from putting so much time and effort into subeta, but i also feel like there's an active community of people with ideas. is there a better way for us to submit ideas to you guys for consideration?

i also like the idea of doing more things like cw contests like the one we had for masq, where users could submit cws for a contest and everyone could vote, then we could buy the copies from the shop

anyway, thank you for taking the time to respond on this thread. i care a lot about subeta and super love the idea of being able to contribute in any way i can.

Few questions:

1. Can we know at least the major expenses? (server, domain, etc.)
2. When there's an economical crisis behind the scene, can we know about that too?
3. Can we have an yearly goal bar?

Subeta is an indie game, as long as there's no support from a big mainstream company and with many indie games, there's a co-operation between the team and the players, about everything, so I think that this should be the goal, we are in this together, you keep the site alive for us and we give money to so you can actually do it and keep it alive for us.

I just honestly don't want to wake up one day and to read that the site is closing down and to read that had to pay from his own pocket for Subeta, it's really heartbreaking and it shouldn't happen.

I don't think I actually ever said that they were meant to be an open market. I'm sorry if I offended you (or , though I don't think that I did...?) I wasn't around back then.

But I do think the site has shot itself in the foot financially by deciding that it's a 'scam' for people to release as many items as their customers would like to buy. However much "money" individual releasers were making, all CSC that doesn't come from Morty Cards is bought and paid for with real money by someone, so it's ultimately the site that gets the profits.

You know that I respect whatever rules are applied to the items that I buy (because I'm not a jerk), but I think that this was a bad decision.

Thanks for the lengthy explanation/history lesson--we've talked about some of this before, too. I was definitely under the false apprehension that people paid more to release items as unlimited.

I just think that if the site is hurting for money, not allowing people to sell enough CWs to meet the demand that they get because they weren't psychic enough to guess how many people would want them is a really bad plan. If the site isn't earning enough money, let's don't stop people from throwing money at things that they want.

I don't think the site owners made a conscious decision to create the situation that we currently have with respect to resale value and high prices. But I do think that the situation that has arisen was predictable given the strictures that were placed on releasing.

This is what drives me mad about Subeta. Lack of follow-through. In order to gain some goodwill a clear timeline would be wonderful - "The Teahouse will be released on 7/14/2020!" for instance, and THEN ACTUALLY RELEASE IT WHEN PROMISED. I understand that coding or whatever can screw with release plans, but this is why you overestimate your timeline so you can get it done on time. This excuse would NEVER fly at any workplace.

And some things have been a problem for years and years - like site lag on holidays. I pop in on a holiday 'cause something's actually happening, and BOOM the site is unplayable. So I surf on over somewhere else. Maybe the site only had a hiccup on that day, or even in that hour, but you've lost me for the remainder of the event. Flightrising (I know, I'm bringing it up to) has zero lag and is only down at clearly-stated maintenance times. Is the reason that Subeta can't do this the site code? Oh look, we are back to demanding the mythical recode which has also been promised for years. We suggest a Kickstarter again, it's shut down again, 'cause I should just buy from the Cash Shop instead, I don't because of Subeta's lack of follow-though . . .

I work at a preschool. We need a new fridge, the carpets and toys are 20 years old, many playground things (like the slide and swings) broke and were never fixed, the staff make minimum wage with no benefits. The owner has taken two trips to Hawaii this year. Of course she can do whatever she likes with her money, but damn if she isn't getting the side-eye from parents, and people withdrawing their kids. It may not be fair, but no one is going to throw money into a black hole if they aren't assured that it will be put to a use they approve of.

I think that a monthly goal bar would be an improvement for sure. The daily goal is often unmet and it makes me nervous for the site's finances! But as others have said, most of the income is made on bonus weekends so the daily goal isn't really an accurate depiction of how the site is doing financially.

In addition to the monthly goal bar, I think it would be cool if there was an incentive to filling the goal bar. Like say, if we fill the monthly goal bar, maybe the free shop opens for a day or something. Obviously the real incentive is that we get to keep subeta afloat and continue playing, but maybe having something more concrete to push towards would help?

I agree with others too that a little more transparency from the staff would be nice. Maybe just a staff only thread on the forum, or additions to news posts, just letting us know how things are going. Nothing super long or detailed, just a little bit here and there to keep us updated!

I also really like the idea of letting GA users vote on things for the site. It would add a level of engagement in the site's development that I think would be really fun!

I really love subeta, I've been on and off playing for over a decade now. The creativity and community of this website has literally shaped me as a human being. As an adult, I don't have as much time to play anymore, but I still love coming back here on a day off and hanging out. Thank you to Keith and all of the staff for your hard work and dedication to this site. And for continuing to push it to succeed! I appreciate you all <3

Back again with some more concrete stuff this time!

I wonder... Does Subeta do any advertising off-site? Via Facebook ads, or idk... Twitter ads, Google, what have you? Or does it rely only on word-of-mouth and google search results to get new members? Might be something to look into after the two most important areas of the site (wardrobe & pet profiles) get their facelifts.

I know the list of e-mails that need to go out for every newsletter is humongous. Is there a way to maybe trim it down a little? Get people to confirm their e-mails over the span of a year, then send out newsletters to the trimmed down list, and periodical log-in nudges to the others? I'm going out on a limb with this one - I don't know if you guys still have e-mails from old and possibly perma-inactive accounts that were made 10+ years ago, but if you do, it might be a good idea to prune those a bit to make the newsletter system more efficient.

Communication could use a teensy spot more work, but I'm hoping the things that were brought up will be taken into consideration. You can't begin rebuilding trust if you're forgetting to post information that's important to the userbase.

A few more community events? I liked EPICon and the snowman building contest, and I think that if some kinks were ironed out, having a few of those here and there could be nice. Lots of people loved creative contests like making a barn for Oatmeal, or the CW art contests we've had for Masquerade (and way earlier, for Survival). Those always generate a huge amount of user interest, so maybe a sort of framework for them can be built so it's easier for staff to manage & monitor them? Have a team of trusted users help weed out bogus or blank entries!

I think changing the Daily Goal to a Monthly Goal (w/a little boon for hitting it) is a great idea. Maybe 5% off of CS items, or a Free Shop day, or some kind of boon that wouldn't kill the economy, but would give users a little nod of gratitude would be really really nice! I really like that suggestion. The daily bar not getting filled feeds anxiety like nobody's business. 😬

Homepage facelift. Look, I get that the a new layout is a priority and that the homepage will get updated then, but the current homepage looks like a flaming mess. It really doesn't do the site art or content justice. You're using outdated art in your animated feature banner. The HA spotlight is broken. The information is outdated. 5000 sP for a new user is nothing. And what is that mysterious "starter kit of cool items" the home page speaks of? The featured topics mostly outdated and irrelevant. They're all from 2011-2013, which is HORRIFYING. You have bug reports and locked topics as featured topics, which is kind of not a good look. The featured big topics there (Pet Spotlight + Support Group III, Favorite Pet Treasure Chest of the Person Above You, Favorite Pet Overlay from the Person Above) will eventually get locked when they hit a post cap. And due to recent forum updates, users who are not logged in can't even view those forum topics! So the whole "featured topics" section is pretty pointless right now. Try it yourself: open the homepage in a private browsing window and have a look. When logged in, users can't see the homepage. Meaning that we can't see if the featured HA is looking fabulous and deserves a ❤️, or if any of the featured topics spark our interest. Subeta needs to gain and retain users now, not 5 years down the line when the layout's finally live.

I totally agree with the point made about gold accounts.

For me personally the only thing I really get GA for is autopricer and the extra quests are a nice bonus on top. Most of the time if feels like I have to choose between using my CSC on GA or CW/cash shop items. Sometimes buying GA almost feels like I'm wasting CSC. 😔 Since for me the only significant perks out of GA right now are autopricer and extra quests I end up feeling like I have to do more work and put more effort into daily questing to get my money's worth. It would be nice to have more casual but significant perks for GA users.

I especially dig the idea for loyalty tokens and brought up. Pets are a huge incentive for me to stay on the site and if I would love if I could passively work towards a new pet slot by just having a monthly subscription/GA going. Loyalty boxes have a lot different amazing options for users for enjoy different aspects of the site so being able to buy those items with something like a loyalty token that you gain from monthly subscriptions would be really awesome.

I don't mind paying monthly subscriptions at all if I get some nice and rewarding benefits out of it but the way GA currently works does not feel rewarding enough for me to justify the cost. Also personally I would rather pay subscription with straight up money instead of CSC but this is of course just a personal preference. I'd love to see GA worked into a more patron style system or introduce a monthly patron system alongside it from which you can gain GA+other benefits by subscribing into it.

Several users have also brought up topics about CWs and their accessibility. CWs are huge part of the site for a big portion of the active user base (myself included) so it would be awesome to see that section of the site develop. I really appreciate all the efforts that have already been made to make CWs a more user friendly experience. Still CWs are a bit hard to navigate for a new users. Personally I started getting into CWs solely because of pawn shop and since CW pawn shop is not open all the time anymore and we do not have a CW database the entry level of CWs is quite a bit higher. The CW forums and the CW shops aren't really easy to navigate for an user who doesn't interact that much with the CW portion of the site.

The price and submission price of CWs (and especially recolors) are a topic regularly brought up when discussing the accessibility of CWs and while I agree with the sentiment I also understand that it might not be feasible for the site to lower those costs. 😕

I wholeheartedly hope Subeta will stay up for a long time. This site has carved out it's spot in my daily life and I have made friends with a lot of amazing people through this community. <3

I agree with the points made by and about the Gold Account system.

At the moment the system feels a bit like you pay to put more effort on the site in the form of extra quests and only feature to make playing on the site easier is the autopricer and the fact you see the item prices on your shop. The top reason I originally joined Subeta and one of the reasons I decided to stay are the pets so it would be great for the pet community to get access to the features such as pet slots and pet name change, which loyalty boxes hold, in exchange for their support and money. There's variety of great useful features in the loyalty box. So it would be great to make these features more accessible without having to pay 2000CSC and 500CSC (or real money for that CSC) everytime for the features. Especially with the pet slots since the millionaire center pet slots are also limited.

I also agree with about the home/login page update, it could be at least worth to ponder. The page is still the same when I first joined years ago and I remember it being very confusing even a bit frightening to me and it was outdated already by then. It also made the site look very silent and "dead" to me. For example HAs including the CW community and pets being a big part of the site nowadays the homepage could promote these and other important community features like events more.

Long live Subeta! It's one of my most important hobbies and part of my daily routine with some awesome and fun people.

Also a big upvote for more interesting & condensed GA bonuses. Extra quests & autopricer are the biggest selling points, everything else is really not interesting enough to warrant shelling out 5$ a month consistently esp if you're a sporadic player. Game cooldown sticks out as the most meh among them all, closely followed by the GA forum. It's a glorified user-run games forum right now, beta testing happens once in a blue moon too. Having a way to get a bonus pet slot, or superspecial account bound wearables for having a long-running (6+ months?) GA could motivate people to buy more GAs. Or a one-time reward discount for pet slots, pet renames & nameswaps for being a long-time GA user. Something that feels special - the site doesn't do Black Friday discounts for petslots, renames, account renames and such, so getting a one-time discount on one of those features for having a continuous GA could be really swish. But as always, you'll run the risk of CSC inflation because suddenly everyone wants a GA and some people just can't (or refuse to) pay for it with real money. Also the loyalty totem adds 3 GA months, so I can see that possibly being used for users to get a leg-up on any discounts. Ultimately, it depends on how much of a discount it is and if it's worth trading in something as versatile as a loyalty totem to get an advantage toward it. On the other side, if it's made to be a paying-member-only exclusive (like loyalty points), it could feel like users who simply can't afford to put Subeta ahead of bills & food are being fenced off. It's definitely got potential and could do with a little bit more brainstorming!

About GA accounts, it may be a bit controversial idea but many premium services gives some things for free, like PSN gives 1-2 free games every months, so what about giving 1-2 items of your choice from previous year's monthly collection items? 1 free CW of your choice every 6 months (you need to be GA active for 6 months or something else to count it)? things like that, something that may push people to buy GA..

Sorry for the length, ahahaha. I hope the info was useful. Logically, if the site needs money, they should be opening avenues for people to give them money, I agree. Perhaps the scamming rule needs to have another look - you should post about it in the feedback or suggestions forum and see what people and staff have to say, since it's a pretty specific rule. Until the rule is changed, though, it's still not fair to say I'm going to sell X number of copies of something, then turn around and sell more of them later when interest picks up. It may be that forced scarcity/rarity is no longer a driving force behind the popularity of CWs, but I'm not sure. Some people just really like owning rare things, and may not be interested in allowing extra batches of items to be released later.

Just going to echo some really, really great ideas being made today:

RE: Gold Accounts Yes, please revamp gold accounts! I really only get one to autoprice my shop, as others have said, and it's useful during the holidays or events for gifts (sending 10 vs 5). I like the idea of getting some kind of Gold Account token or ticket for every month's worth of GA that you purchase. These tickets could be spent in a Gold Account shop for items that everyone else is suggesting - loyalty-box style pet slots, name changes, etc; exchanged for denominations of CSC, special wearables, and so on. This, I think, would be easier than coding some way to keep track of users getting X perk after every 6 months or a year, etc. You'd have to save up 6 GA tokens to purchase a name change, or 12 tokens to purchase pet slot, less to buy a special wearable - that sort of thing.

Special features/BGs for gold account users on the forums, early access to beta features, the ability to vote or have input on future themes, plots, events, etc, cheaper submission and/or recolor prices for GA users are a few ideas that have already been suggested that I love.

However, I truly hope the ability to buy GAs with site currency, as well as the ability to send GAs as gifts or sell them in shops, never goes away. I think it would alienate a large portion of the site who depend on buying GAs with sp or CSC, and remove an option for really nice gifts or contest prizes.

RE: Revamp the login page YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. Subeta has so much amazing art and so many amazing features that are being hidden behind that out of date login page! Show off the very best of what new users could be getting - beautiful pets, amazing custom HAs, a full world to explore, and a site full of friendly, responsive staff that will work directly with them to create an awesome daily game experience. :D

RE: CW Accessibility I already said this, but CWs are a big part of the site and could be EVEN BIGGER! Let's make the system easier to access and understand, CWs easier to create and acquire, and do something to make them more inclusive to different types of players. If there need to be rule changes or changes to the way CWs are submitted or sold, let's get a discussion and figure out what might work.

RE: Daily Goal I agree, seeing the daily goal bar on the front page, empty, most days is disheartening and makes me feel like the site's needs aren't being met. I really like the idea of a monthly goal instead, so we can see how bonus weekend and other CSC-related events factor in, and the idea of working together as a site toward a small perk we all get at the end of the month when the goal is met is fun too.

I'm sooo happy to see some positive brainstorming today! As said, long live Subeta!

- no problem with the length, it wasn't tl;dr at all! I just did not have much to say to all of it, because I'm still processing some of it.

So this is a digression and we can take it offline if you want. I think part of the problem I have with the whole idea of scarcity/rarity as a game mechanic is this:

I treasure rare and private items because of the friendship behind them, not the fact that they are "rare".

I would never ever part with a private Lumi gift, even if I found it difficult to use, simply because I care so much about that person. I don't buy privates from the few private groups I am in unless I am sure I will never want to part with them. But those groups are all private groups where people are really, truly, actually friends with the releaser and share common interests.

At the same time--I actually think it's kind of mean to be happy that other people who haven't done anything wrong to you have no opportunity to own something you have if they really want it.

I know this sounds kind of contradictory, but I feel like you can treasure rare and special things and not be willing to part with them yourself without the schadenfreude part that I sense in some people who are all about the scarcity.

So in this sense, I'm not opposed to privates, but I do think private items should be private because you want to give/offer something to people you really truly care about, not because you want to exclude everyone else.

Creating limited "public items" doesn't make sense unless you actually want a crazy market. I'm sure that wasn't the intention of the people who set things up the way they are, but if you understand supply and demand, it's not at all surprising that the crazy market happened.

I'm not disputing anything you've said - I also don't collect private items specifically because they are private (I honestly don't like keeping track of private status, so I usually avoid them altogether if I want to fully disclose my feelings about it), and I've only released maybe 2-3 in all the time I've been on subeta. Any gifts I give, for Lumi or otherwise, have no strings attached because I want people to be able to do whatever they want with the items I give, even if that's selling it - because I just want my friends to find a nugget of happiness.

I feel like you're taking the concept of private items and artificial rarity kind of to the extreme, however. I doubt very many people are lording their private or rare items over others and cackling with glee that they get to own them and others don't. Edit: When I said some people like owning rare things, it's the exact same as someone liking expensive name-brand clothing. Most people, except maybe movie stereotypes, buy that limited edition Kate Spade handbag for their own personal enjoyment, not to sneer at everyone else who DIDN'T buy it. As I tried to convey last night, some private items may be the result of only wanting to share with friends because of personal reasons, and some private or limited items may be the result of simply trying to maintain perceived value to attract slotters and ensure re-salability down the line.

I doubt many, if any, people on subeta are economists, and I'm sure few looked very far ahead to see how the management of the CW economic system would affect future users. There was nobody saying in the beginning "let's only sell 10 copies of this CW to make them super valuable and desirable in the future!!! Let the peasants fight!!!!" Like you said, it's just the effect of supply and demand.

If you believe staff needs to step in and ensure items are more widely available, either by revamping the way items are submitted, or by making old items accessible again, or whatever, you should think that out and make a suggestion. Not one of us in the CW community has any power to do anything on our own, but thankfully the site has given us multiple areas and venues to discuss the health of the site and possible changes that could be made! :)

(If you want to discuss this more, I'll do my best, but you should probably bring this to my comments unless we can specifically relate the conversation to this particular thread.)

no, no, it's all good! <3 I'm sorry, I have a tendency to think out loud in discussions like these and at length.

EDIT: For the sake of everyone's feelings and sanity I should probably mention that a lot of my really negative feelings about concepts like 'resale value' have more to do with my experiences as an IRL lolita than anything that has happened here on Subeta.

For instance: a limited edition dress I own was re-released by Angelic Pretty and while all these people were screaming "resale value" all I could think was:

1. it's really nice that more people will be able to have Cat's Tea Party
2. maybe strangers at events will stop trying to literally buy the clothes off my back.

EDIT: especially to <3

Tartelette pointed out to me that I sound a lot more upset than I am. I want to say that I actually really freaking LOVE the CW community and the friends I've made in it.

I just don't ever want it to go away because it or the site is no longer sustainable--and I also want to make it easier for new people to get into it, because I myself joined the site in February 2017. I also want to make it fairer for POC and people who like making HAs of colour regardless of their own ethnicity.

Conversations like this one scare me because I have spent a lot of money on this site and I really love it.

I spent a lot of money on Poupee Girl and then I watched it die. I don't want to go through that again.

I 100% agree over the importance of being able to buy GA with CSC and sP. I would have never ever gotten GA and CSC and eventually gotten into CWs had I not been able to buy those things with sP in the beginning. It's just a personal preference that for subscription type of content I would like to buy it with real money instead. I guess in Subeta's case a lot of it circles back to CWs and the bonus weekend. I don't have unlimited money to spend on CSC so I try to only buy during the bonus weekend. Most of my CSC goes into submitting and buying CWs so it's sometimes really hard to estimate how much you are going to need during the following month. The CW market as of now is really in-the-moment type of deal. You really don't know if you can get your hands on something later if you decide to skip on it when it's slotting. Sometimes you are not even sure if you really need it or if you are really gonna use it in the long run but you might. And then you are gonna feel like crap for missing your chance when you had it. It truly is a now-or-never situation sometimes. So circling back to GAs, if mid month I feel like it would be nice to have some extra quests and autopricing going on I have this voice at the back of my head telling me that what if something I really really want to buy comes along next day or next week and I spent my CSC buying GA or a cash shop item.

This in a way relates back to the high cost of CWs. The CSC you have becomes a really valuable resource since the CWs are so expensive. There's a lot of beautiful cash shop items I would have loved to get along the year but I just keep wishlisting them for black Friday so I can be the most efficient in the way I use my CSC. Edit: This relates a lot to pet slots as well. I honestly have like 10 new pets planned but can't get myself to buy new pet slots very often since 2k is quite a steep price especially for someone who plans to get several. I would probably be chugging money left and right on impulse should the pet slots be cheaper but right now it's really hard to justify buying pet slots on a whim. What I have now is like a two year plan for pet slots. xD At least some bundle discounts would be nice.

Aaaaaand this segways in to batch sizes and unlimited items. There are a lot amazing releasers who release their CWs into their CW shop - buy at your own pace style. That's awesome! Especially with unlimited items! Amazing! But those items just don't sell that well when the urgency of having to buy it right now is removed. So if you need CSC to pay slots, to submit items, whatever else, it might not really even be an option to have an unlimited CW shop release as awesome as those are. Heck, I have a full WL category just for items in CW shops that I am gonna buy at some point when I know I can afford it. There is a constant sense of urgency hanging over the CW scene.

The market is also really hard to predict sometimes. There's been several times that I think I am setting a fair batch limit for an item just to be completely blindsided by it's popularity. But as the rules stand now there is no going back on the stated batch limit. I feel bad but there's really nothing to be done about it. And I do understand why those rules where set in place and why they are important so I can't really say where I would even stand on regarding the possible overturning of those rules.

I think there's a lot of conversation to be had among the CW community over how we could improve the overall accessibility and ease of user experience when it comes to CWs. I am sure there's a lot of amazing ideas inside the community that could be refined and worked into something feasible to elevate the CW experience. It's a HUGE and unique part of Subeta that has a lot of future potential. I think a lot of these conversations and development has been centered around the releaser/artist end of the community but there is no CWs if no one buys them. Taking count of the buyer experience should be equally important! Especially when it comes to people who are not yet interested in CWs but have the potential to be. We have people who have been around for a long time and people who just now getting into CWs so I think there's a lot of interesting conversations to be had among everyone.

Whoo sorry, this became kinda long winded but I was struck by shower thoughts. xD

[edit] More thoughts. I play a lot of free to play games. I - however - am no longer strictly F2P in those games. None of those games I went into thinking I was going to spend money on them. I went to play something fun for free, got invested and decided it was a way to spend my money that both made me happy and supported the existence of the game. I was on subeta for a long long long time before I bought any CSC with real $$$. The so to say F2P experience is extremely important. The is no game without players and no site without users, and in a lot of cases a large portion of the user base is never going to spend a single sent on premium currency. Still those people are so so important in creating engagement and content for all the users on the site regardless of how much they can or cannot spend real life money on it. I said for the a long time that I am never ever going to spend any real money on Subeta. Yet here we are now. Even if there's a lot of users who are never ever going to spend a single cent on the site there are some that just as well might if the free experience is good enough to encourage it.

@/Bunshroom There is a subscription for GA accounts that you can't get with CSC, which is what I think you're asking for? However, it:

a) is super hard to find! The only direct link is in the cash shop drop down, which is huge, and not how I typically go to the cash shop. I click on my CSC to get there. The only other link is on the CSC purchase page under the header. Like, why is it so hard to find?

b) could use some real upgrades. This is just for a GA and some CSC, both which you can get with sP. You do save a bit this way, but other than that, what is attracting players to this option? Not much.

[edit] The loyalty tokens idea that people are suggesting could pair up with this feature. Like, you could get a token for every few months you're subscribed for, not just how many months you have a GA for. This way, people can't use sP to get the tokens, and doesn't contribute to CSC/medal inflation. Just a thought.