There are 33,273 official wearable items. There are 38,205 custom wearables. That's over 71K possible wardobe items.

Sounds to me like the wardrobe is a pretty huge part of the site. Setting a wardrobe cap just might be the equivalent of shooting oneself in the foot.

hello hope i'm not too late to the party older player chiming in with my two cents here don't have anything extremely novel or ground-breaking to contribute but

re: unique vs non-unique pet names i agree with and and couldn't have really phrased it better. personally i love having pets with unique pet names and i would miss it but i highly doubt older users will up and leave the site forever if that happens honestly

i really, really appreciate subeta staff looking into this thread and listening to old (and newer!) players chime in with suggestions to attract new players but i do think that changes will need to happen regardless if us older players like it or not. it's ultimately in everyone's best interest and i think older players will just have to suck it up. i also think people forget that because this community is smaller and more intimate people's opinions are MUCH louder than they are on other pet sites and more likely to have sway than on some behemoth like ne*pets

also i saw this mentioned in the very beginning (no way i have time to read all 17 pages of opinions so i skimmed first and last few), but i was also disappointed when i began poking around the forums again and realized the forums where users could discuss and debate on "controversial" topics (sexuality, religion, philosophy, etc) were gone and honestly the forums/community was a huge reason why i stayed on subeta for a long time before RL took me offline

from what i gather as to why they disappeared i understand and respect the reasons for doing so but as a young adult (i'm 24 now and i joined 10 years ago so do the math lol) these forums were a safe space for me to explore topics re: sexuality and religion and other controversial topics. i learned how to cultivate well-informed opinions, to debate respectfully with others, etc because i was interested in learning about these things and discussing them but didn't have people in my life to turn to about them. i don't really think there's much of a platform to discuss that any more and i'm sure there was a good reason whether there were too many ugly fights or just things taken too far lol

anyway. i don't think this will change anything but if we're going to talk about what attracted us to subeta and what we could do to keep the site well and alive, and successful (it's in everyone's best interest!) i thought it was maybe a valid point to bring up too

re: forums (i already said this before i know but hh seems worth it to post it again)

there are too many subforums ;; i think it would be best to just have 3: subeta related, creative, not subeta related

for instance i'd just put the whole entertainment forum into chit-chat and bragging & complaining into general discussion it would make the forums look more alive (1 forum with 5 active threads is more appealing than 5 forums with 1 active thread each) and reduce anxiety new (and old!) players might feel due to not knowing what forum to post something in

ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

Interesting point about the forums.

However I feel like a lot of activity is generated by those spammy forum game threads.. where do you think they should go?

I love the idea of consolidating the forums and organizing them more efficiently. I have a hard enough time finding a specific subforum if I'm looking for a particular type of conversation, so having broader umbrella categories would make it easier to see each small subforum in a longer list.

I would also be concerned about forum game activity though. Those threads really serve no purpose except to get a bunch of chances at a forum ticket. Honestly, if I were in charge, I'd make it so users could only post in forum games X times per day (and cap it at around 10-15). No conversation comes from them, so why incentivize them? I'd also make forum tickets pop up more frequently to help balance this, and also (hopefully) encourage posts that are at least about something more meaningful to the site.

granted that the game activity posts don't provide conversation, but they aren't useless. I've directed people there who wonder what you get doing certain activities. I've also used them to confirm if something is glitching, like a certain item that's supposed to drop from an activity isn't dropping. For reference and tracking purposes when doing guides. They've been helpful in a variety of ways.

honestly my first thought was they could be just be shoved into a general subeta related forum but thinking about it now there's just too many of those threads lmao maybe a subforum specifically for those? like a subeta related user-run games subforum

I'd like to speak up in favor of the spamy forums! I love having an easy low stress way to participate in the forums. A lot of the time I want to comment but get anxiety about actually talking to people. For some people who have social anxiety the 'spam' type forums are the only place they have a chance to get forum points. I think it's also a place that's easy for new users to participate in, and for me I think it helped get me comfortable enough to move into the other forum topics. Also I just think posting/seeing whatever other people got in site games is fun, and a good way to get an idea of what kind of stuff you can get. Some of the games/dailies can be easy to forget about and the games forum helps keep them relevant.

I know my points might not apply to most of the user base, but I think there are probably a lot of people over there who feel similar to me. I'm guessing these points have already been made in the past, I've just seen this brought up a few times recently and wanted to add.

What you are saying is very true and makes alot of sense ..

I think another overall issue that subeta is rather shaky with, is communication. Overall it's better than a lot of sites; staff are approachable, they chat, and obviously they post on boards and take suggestions and feedback and all of that is amazing.

The communication issue is this overall feel of, "if it doesn't happen immediately, it won't happen". I'll add right here that trust me I get it. Life is a wild ride, things happen, bad things happen, only so much can be done in a period of time, so on and you get the point.

However, let's use the teahouse. It's still not live, took countless boards to get an update (which was lovely), and frankly.... I didn't even remember it was supposed to be a thing when the board was made? Everyone was talking about a teahouse and I was just like, huh? What teahouse...? This isn't the first thing, and it won't be the last.

There's a lot of good ideas on this board in general, obviously non-unique names is one my own retention is currently hanging on, and it's been almost two months since posted about it and the concept is already in the "it's been forgotten and won't happen, time to move on" stage. Which is sad, but kinda what I've come to expect? I couldn't imagine being new and trying to keep up with things..

I'm not sure if I have a suggestion to improve this, since again life's is a ride and rarely do things run smooth or go as planned, but maybe a notice board sort of thing. Pinned staff messages of things that're on the to-do list, that aren't forgotten.

So when a user goes what's up with the teahouse... oh look it's on Rah' s to-do list with a "I'll never forget we're going to make it worth the wait I hope" note added a few weeks ago!

y e s big agree hit the nail on the head

i love the admin posts page!! but a lot of times it feels like important information is kinda hidden in forums and easy to miss ;; i mean basically confirmed non-unique pet names are gonna happen but unless someone is following the thread they'd have no way to know. and the thread isn't even exclusively about pet names

i'd love to have a page dedicated to upcoming features/things being worked on! i think it could be really neat to see how things like the teahouse or new pet profile system are coming along ' v '

(plus seeing as keith mentioned wanting to do a patreon type thing........ progress screenshots would be a really cool perk js asdfghjkl)

wait what??? the unique system is the main reason i dont really play anymore! i'm glad to hear its at least being considered for removal (and hope it happens soon). i do think that would help new users a lot because 100+ pets with unique names per user is still absurd

i agree that staff in general are really good at communication. its more the lack of a time frame & finding information related to your concerns. i know subeta is loosey goosey with schedules but it does mean everything is in blizzard SoonTM territory lol. obviously things change, complications come up, etc, but a little notice board would be great! even if its just priority 1, priority 2, etc.

edit: and yes, big same on using subeta as a character hub! users have some lovely templates for us less coding savvy, and i love building tcs especially, subeta has so many lovely items that really help with creativity! i would love custom items--not wearable or anything. just. the item. so i can slap it in my tcs. pls.

I absolutely get "what I thought I was going to do verses the unplanned things that I actually had to do instead", and I absolutely appreciate the boards makes with recent changes to the site.

I also get we don't know everything going on behind the scenes! Some things are surprises, somethings are maybes, and sometimes things turn out to be more trouble than they're worth; if we know about things that fizzle (or turn into something else more complex, such as the teahouse) or become something more elaborate it turns into a "about time" instead of an omg we're blown away.

I absolutely 100% understand all of that, I really do. However, for site features that're being changed a notice board would be extremely helpful to both current users and brand new users.

Few examples:

1. Non-unique pet names. New users who don't like unique names can see this is slated to change and may stick around. Old users whp support it, we can start planning ahead. Users who hate it may leave, but they'd leave when it happens, but potentially knowing it's due to change.... may change their mind and warm to the idea.

2. Pet profile revamp. Knee jerk reaction was fear and to basically not touch anything because it's going to be broken soon™ anyways. Maybe seeing a WIP/concept of it, we could make a judgment of how it'd look/how it'd change things, and more importantly it might give us new ideas of things we could do.

3. (this is absolutely theoretical not saying this should or will happen, purely an example that isn't pet related lol) Wardrobe size reduction: for example purposes only let's say it causes a lot of lag and staff want to start encouraging less items so they plan to retire/reduce the achievement count. Users could sprint to get the achievements or say finally and cull all the stuff that's literally just filler. Or choose to keep everything anyways.

Knowing a thing you use daily, or may be interested in, is potentially going to be changed will give people a heads up. Instead of the way it feels now, which is.... well nothing has changed in x months, they've probably forgotten/it's never changing carry on until it randomly changes overnight two years later. Remember the unknown years for the cults revamp, then one day they were basically slated to die and be replaced with forum groups? Just like that.

To keep it brief:

Forums are dead. Not just subeta forums. Forums in general are dead. I'd argue that old-style pet websites just aren't that popular, either. To be blunt, our pets don't really do anything and most people just use them as oc storage hubs. I like the creativity we can do with them, but it's not that much different from making a thing on toyhou.se I guess. I think pets are a pretty minor part of the website for most people though, I think the wardrobe is probably the most substantial thing on the website, so making it more friendly for mobile devices is probably the best thing that can be done, I guess.

The more popular websites seem to have breed-able adoptable or whatever I guess, it's definitely not my cup of tea, but I'm not really sure how practice or alienating it would be to pick up something like that on subeta (or, well, feasible, really). I am not a fan of non-unique names whatsoever (other than a nickname system), personally, but I was also harassed over my pet names by people years ago so I guess it'd prevent that from happening again. ¯(ツ)/¯

I think Soph summed up my feelings really well here. Personally I really hate the term people are throwing out there - "name hoarding" - because it implies pets have some monetary worth so they're getting 'hoarded' for... scalping? I don't think most people do it for 'bragging rights,' If you don't like the name, it's just taking space. That's just stupid. But if a pet is blank I guess it's easy to assume that, disregarding the fact that no one is entitled to another person's pets or how they enjoy the website anyways, but I really don't think subeta should have allowed users to get as many pet spaces as we're able to amass in the first place. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.

Subeta is a avatar, game and pet website, sure, but even if we look at gaiaonline - which has similar aspects - it's popularity has tanked pretty bad. It was far larger than subeta ever was, and it basically just inches on by now. The forum format is really outdated and I'm not really sure what can be done about that. Forums were really popular in the early/mid 2000s, but it's something that has really tanked for quick-paced, social media like facebook, instagram, and twitter. I use other forums for other hobbies (eg, Den of Angels for ball-jointed dolls) and it has it's dedicated core, but it's not exactly racking in numbers. If subeta was to "update" to reflect new trends, I'm not really sure how feasible it would be, nor how appealing it would be...

Honestly? At the end of the day, I think the best thing is to probably make the mobile website more friendly for devices. I still use my desktop for most of me things, but I'm also in university so a) I use it all the time anyways and b) I have a gaming PC, so it's kind of all-in-one for me.

But I'll be blunt: at the end of the day, subeta is important to me. It's important to all of us, I'm sure, otherwise we wouldn't be talking about it. I've been on the website for nearly a decade and a half, I joined when I was 10/11 years old, and subeta impacted me a lot during my adolescence. But I've also fully accepted that subeta was an experiment and it's likely in it's twilight years now. I don't personally expect to see subeta's 20th anniversary. If it happens, cool.... but... I don't expect it. And to be honest.... I'm ok with that. Not that I want it to happen, but I've accepted the possibility a long time ago.

I'll be frank, I'm here for the OC hub and treasure chests.

If non-unique names don't actually happen this year, I'll be yet another person everyne hates that logs in daily (thanks bath house for the sweet reminder) but has 96 blank profile common kumos.

I mentioned this on page who knows when on this thread and I too am here for the OC hub and TCs! And I feel like Subeta could be a fantastic place for creatives to host their OCs if it weren't for unique names.

It's so nice having a place to organise and host my characters. Plus, the pet art on this site is gorgeous and super helpful to help give them an "identity". Sometimes, it's hard coming up with a visual representation of your OC so having something that's premade, in a way, is a nice way to get started/get over that stumbling block so that I can focus on other things like personality or story.

The concept of TCs scratches that collecting pretty items itch I have and it's nice to put together a collection of items that represent your character.

I came back to Sub after a long hiatus because I wanted to channel my creativity into OCs again. And it actually worked?? They're not all finished, but it's been wonderful creating characters again and building little imaginary worlds and stories.

I would love to recommend this place to my friends to use as a way to host their OCs and fuel that creative drive, but I can't because they won't be able to get the names they want for their OCs. Everyone approaches creating OCs differently, but names play a huge role for a lot of folks. And if they can't get the name they want for their OC then what's the point?

It's 2020 and hardly any other website or game uses unique naming systems (actually, I can't think of any other than Sub to be honest). I love this site, but if I were a newbie and I realized I couldn't get the names I wanted I would've been long gone as soon as I hit the part in the tutorial where you have to create a pet.

^I TOTALLY AGREE!! Staff PLEASE continue doing this during events^ I have had almost no lag during this survival!

I agree that communication is huge. I see staff often post important information as responses to threads but none of it ever makes it into the news. Everyone would benefit from a little "news letter" of sorts, a news post each week/month/whatever just to include whatever little updates they've got, maybe even links to relevant threads because there are quite a few influential threads that some players are completely unaware of. (Big example is holiday suggestion threads, I know they're not official but they gather enough attention from staff to be linked in the news.)

Also I don't really see a downside to non-unique pet names. The majority of use of this site seems to be creative, whether it's artists, writers, roleplayers, coders.. and pets are huge in all of those communities. Why inhibit that?

The problem is that the Shoutbox is important to a lot of us. Now that it's back, I don't feel as bored as I did while it was closed, and so I'm less tired in the mornings and more willing to get up. But it will probably close again in 2 weeks for Masquerade, and I'll have to find an active Discord server or something to compenaste for the quick, instant messages that appear.

Also, is the tea house going to be done this Vesnali? Or is it not finished yet? I'm just tired of waiting for the Centropolis Lower West Side map, a lot of people are, (as well as the garden revamp), but I know the staff don't want to ignore the votes. Maybe they could just do it anyway, or find some kind of loophole? Or maybe all three could be released at the same time, or one day after the other? It will have been three years this year, and I'm quite sure the Lower West Side map is already drawn and ready to be released, but this vote is delaying it.

'a lot of us' seems to be a lone tree in a large forest