If i were a brand new user and saw how convoluted nicknames were, particularly if I had to pay for one, I think I'd be very turned off. Thinking back nearly 15 years, one of the biggest reason I stuck to subeta was because when I first joined, there were few users, so I could get a nice pet name without additional numbers/letters. Obviously, that's changed now and it's more difficult to get a nicer name.

There's also a learning curve and trial period associated with any hobby website. When I was younger and pet sites were more popular, I'd try any new one for a little while before deciding if it was worth spending more time on, and if it was worth my money if such premium features were available.

Since making a pet is one of the first things you do on a pet site, it should be easy and accessible. And it probably shouldn't ask the newbie for money right away, or it might give the impression that every element of subeta has a paid feature, when that isn't true.

I do understand why people would be upset to lose their unique name for a pet (I know I'd feel a little stung about some of my pets' names not being the Gygax, or etc), but i think if subeta hopes to attract and keep new users, unique names should go.

- I feel like usernames elsewhere vs pets here is a bit of an apples and oranges scenario. Having a login (often your email) and a different user display name is a common thing, but that's just one object - your login.

People can have dozens of pets, even over 100 of them if they've been here long enough. To pay to individually "overlay" a fake name on 20+ pets seems ludicrous to me. An older user might be tempted for a few pets, but I don't think it has any appeal to someone just joining the site.

I can guarantee that I'd never be able to convince my RP buddies to create accounts here under that premise. I can't imagine having to sit there plugging in different words/names/misspellings until it lets you create a pet, and then having to pay to display the name you actually wanted in the first place.

All of that aside, I think keeping name clearings around is a mistake. Just because people can display the names they want doesn't mean they won't murder each other (and the site) for that "real" version of the name. If anything, it's going to breed its own sort of elitism and make those pets exponentially more desirable.

i'm glad we have some confirmation from staff as to what is going to happen, but imma be real i'm still kind of disappointed :c

i was more okay with the idea of nicknames when this whole debate first started but now i just...... i dunno, i just don't feel like it's something i would spend money on personally especially if it's tied to subscriptions. do the nicknames disappear if you cancel your subscription? end your ga (assuming they'll be linked to subscriptions)? if it's a one time purchase that would be better but it also depends on price i guess

still kind of wish we could have had a poll or a forum with direct staff input to discuss this, rather than a thread with users talking among themselves and staff chiming in every now and then

also agree with people saying this isn't great for new users. there's enough convoluted, user-unfriedly stuff on subeta as is lmao at least pets were simple 😂

Nicknames aren't a solution to the actual problem - the site mcfriggin crashing whenever something remotely popular is set to clear.

Unless clearings are completely eliminated in the future, it's just placing a band-aid on a festering wound. The site has issues being stable, the thing should be eliminating potential stress sources for the servers.

I'm glad some are happy, and that the peeps with 100+ desirable names are gonna spend more to nickname them and bring in more revenue c:

I'll just be doing my part and logging in daily to ensure those people have to pay for a knockoff of any name I (or being real my friends) have in our possession.

Knowing this is literally just to cater to the handful of old users who refuse to share, and has nothing to do with hopefully bringing in new users... I don't think I'd drop more than about 25csc on a knockoff name. Even then I'd have to consider it. Ah well.

A nickname to me would be like using it for my pet Daniel Jackson to call him just Daniel but keep the fanpet name.

I hate placeholder names. It's not worth it to me to have to use a random word/name. I don't want (using two names I own as to not signal out another user) "Deirdre43523" or "Upon" I want "Deirdre". Using a nickname doesn't cover the fact that I still have an undesired name on that pet that I can't get rid of unless I change the real name, which I can't as the user who has it doesn't want to get rid of it.

If nicknames have to be the way we go, I'm not sorry to anyone who wants/wanted a pet name I have and has to instead use it as a nickname. I'm not changing or adopting out any of them. I'll just keep "name hoarding".

Yeah, I'm not exactly an authority here, but I gotta say I really dislike the paying for a nickname idea. It's overcomplicated, it's not user-friendly in the slightest, and the fact that it sounds like it'll be a paid feature just feels greedy.

I'd be fine with just nixing unique names entirely. Maybe give the original one a little flair or something I guess.

I recently got my hands on a couple of names I thought I'd never have a chance at, and it made Subeta fun again. I have something to care about and invest money and time into. If somebody else also had these names, it wouldn't hurt me one bit. But if they got the inspiration and joy out of them that I have, then it's worth it. And it's much better for the site in the long run.

Paying for nicknames? Aha...?

Well, as a loyal long-time user I'll be doing my part of course aka I am going to keep this account active so that people have to pay if they want any name on it as a nickname but I am very, VERY sure that's it from me.

Thanks for saving me money that I can use for video games instead, I hope your plan works out well for the site. ^,~

I agree with Thespian in that when this whole thing started, I was more amendable to nicknames. And while it's better than nothing, I am also concerned about cost, it being lost if a sub runs out, if a sub is even a gold account anymore or something RLC only.

I would much rather unique names be done away with entirely. Thinking about it more, having to pay to basically access the part of the site I want to take part in -- pets -- is absurd. Names shouldn't be complicated and barring a stunning implementation of the nickname system I will probably join the "logs in just to hold my names" crowd.

I don't play Subeta as much to begin with and the petnames have nothing to do with it (Subeta's standard issues have everything to do with it). Months after my initial kneejerk reactions, the whole petname discussion has left me indifferent toward the result of it.

Whatever happens, happens. Staff aren't doing the nickname thing to spite anyone. Nicknames as a concept just happen to be the best middle ground at the moment. If someone else can come up with a better middle ground, I'm sure they'd be happy to hear it.

Non-unique names with a little star/symbol to signify the OG petname was a really good idea too.

From a moneymaking standpoint, if you can get all the petnames you want immediately and after the initial rush wears off, pet renames don't have that much of a purpose in the long run. Petslots, however, will become a constant demand, probably even more than they are now. With the current system, the pet renames, petslots and the proposed subscription-only nickname feature theoretically mean more money than is currently earned. But it ultimately depends on how much the subscription will cost, how it will work, what it will offer and how the nicknames hold up after your subscription expires. Now, I don't know if the eventual CSC price rebalance includes petslots and pet renames, but if it does, making names non-unique could be more profitable in the long run than offering subscription-only nicknames. Staff know more about this than I do, I'm making assumptions and guessing.

Staff can also always change their minds and tweak, adjust, modify as needed. Or make the petnames non-unique after people get used to the nickname feature. Or even change their minds entirely regarding the nickname feature (it's not even released yet and prob won't be for a while, why are some of y'all acting like it is?) and go for the non-unique petnames anyway. Hell, the petslot system changed over time to suit the userbase and was made way more accessible. I can see this going the same route.

But all that aside, I think staff should definitely make a poll regarding unique vs non-unique petnames to get a better opinion of what the userbase wants before they do anything involving the petnames. Add a link to the onsite poll as part of a newsletter to reach the maximum number of users.

There's a handful of us really vocal folks from all viewpoints on this thread, and there's loads of people who'd like to add their two cents, but they don't want to talk about it because they'll get their opinion smacked down, get made fun of for wanting to have something special, or have to deal with the snark and attitude - onsite and offsite. I can't blame anyone for not wanting to deal with that, but the staff should definitely try to get a more complete picture of what the majority of the userbase wants.

I don't think anyone is ungrateful for the information--people are probably reacting so strongly based off the given information because it comes so sparsely (on this topic specifically). It's very gotta get your two-cents in now or it may come out and blindside us entirely. A poll sounds lovely though!

Great to hear, I'm sure the poll will help. Thank you for keeping us updated and providing some information about this feature, even if it's still a WIP.

Ah, that makes much more sense! So when you first go give your pet a nickname, it's free, but changing that same pet's nickname might either cost you a bit, or cost you nothing depending on the subscription plan.

I imagine the nicknames will stay on a pet's profile even if your subscription expires?

Thank you for the update!

I believe that all of the very good points made here on this board (as well as valid points from a less vocal userbase) could also be helpful submitted in a form that is only read by the admins. Could it be possible (and it very well might not be) for users to submit a written response to a poll that is only received by the admin team? Maybe a subeta version of a google form that's sent to one singular account? The news updates with commentary wouldn't be a good solution because comments are public.

That way, admins could collect written responses in one place (rather than all over on this thread and others) and it's centralized so nothing is missed. There may be some great ideas for compromise out there that could be easier digested if they came from one place without any back-and-forth to muttle the idea.

The problem with Subeta isn't that there are no petnames available anymore. If that was the real issue, I think nicknames would indeed be a middle ground.

The real issue with Subeta is that we don't know if it's going to reliably function any given day - that's the reason why I don't recommand Subeta to anyone; I don't know if it's going to be reliable, or if it's going to be buggy and laggy. And, I don't know, but after 15 years, that's kinda unacceptable.

We're killing off things that hurt the servers - you can't autorefresh in events anymore, shops now have a limit, things like that. The next step is to either do away with unique names, or to away with name clearings (by instauring nicknames)

Clearings are inefficient and unfair. It's time to move on from that mechanic, and go back to permanent petnames - if you want. Usernames could still clear - there isn't mad refreshing for them. But petnames? If nicknames are a thing, do away with them clearing.

Personally, if I was a new user, I don't think unique names/non-unique names/a nicknaming system (complicated or not) would turn me away... Personally, I think site instability would be the biggest factor for me. I've been on the site for nearly a decade and a half, but I started playing subeta when I was ten years old. I'm 25 now. So I've had a long time to get used to it, especially since I had dial-up internet (so every site was slow), until I started to go to university and we finally were able to get high-speed internet through a satellite company.

If I didn't have that experience though, I think I'd be turned away from all of the lag, especially during events which are suppose to be engaging and fun - and they are, until it starts to lag so bad it's unplayable and I am getting blank pages or errors every other page. To ask about all the lag, and to hear "oh it's always been like this," really isn't a comforting thought, especially since competitor sites are able to handle a lot more people online at a time.

And personally... to reiterate, pet clearings generally aren't bad for me. I still live in the country, I still have a "slower" high speed connection, but the site only really lags if a lot of people are competing, and even then... after a few minutes, the site goes back to normal. It sucks when I miss a pet name (lag involved or not) - especially if it was one that I had been watching for years - but I have so many pets anyways. I do feel that if I was new, if I could rename a pet, then it would probably be whatever as long as the first nickname is free.

I do think it would be useful during pet creation that, like neopets, you could "check" if a name was free or not before hitting the create button, though. A new user won't know about using the subeta.net/pets/ url and using the search function is especially tedious, moreso when you can only see if a pet name is open by looking at the profile. Like, I own Anna, but if I search up "Anna," I don't even see my pet come up due to alphabetical order and limited search results.

And that's fair! "We're working on it" definitely wouldn't have been great, aha. I appreciate being able to discuss the WIP even if parts of it are "Uuhh /shrug emoji Maybe!" (For me the initial this might be the system was the main turnoff, because that could just... change with no other warning a year from now.)

aa knowing the system isn't going to be as greedy as i was worried is nice!! ' v '

but honestly for me one of the biggest draws of non-unique names was just that i felt it would make the community nicer? which yes sounds dumb and cheesy i'm sorry asdfghjkl because like, look i hate the idea that there even is a thing as 'name hoarding' lmao i feel like people don't have to prove they 'deserve' names? someone who shells out hundreds of dollars in commissions doesn't deserve a name more than someone who has 100 pets with blank profiles

which hey nicknames might do this!! they might revitalise the community!! who knows what will happen haha i'll stay optimistic!

(and like for the record i'm absolutely not saying the community isn't good rn!! i really do like the pet community i just think it could be even better q v q)

I'm glad to know what the current plan is. I do hope that some sort of poll is made (and I agree that it being anonymous -- or at least not something in which other users can see who posted what opinions -- would probably be ideal, to avoid potential drama!) My preference is still ultimately to just do away with unique names altogether, as they just feel a bit outdated with how many pet slots people can have nowadays and frankly a little silly to me (there can only be one pet named Jarret in all the world of Subeta!) Non-unique names just seem so much easier and give people more freedom to bring characters that they may have come up with offsite to Subeta, without having to spend significant time searching for an alternate name in the event that the character's name is already taken. But nicknames are a compromise, at least.

I like the idea they would show up as basically a custom overlay for names. I have some weird things that I get finicky about, and I know it would bother me if that wasn't the case; the reason I avoid using descriptive words for names and always go for the actual character names is that I dislike the thought of having a pet name displayed on the profile (and training center, and pets page, and so on) not match up to what I refer to them as in the pet/character description.